GC's latest blog, Active Mitigation Playstyle

90 Gnome Warlock
1565
I really wish the DKs whose only tanking experience comes from facerolling 5 man heroics in gear 2 tiers above what the content is balanced around would stop talking like they know anything about the content that the spec is supposedly balanced around.
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90 Orc Death Knight
15775
08/17/2011 12:03 AMPosted by Bomdanil
I really wish the DKs whose only tanking experience comes from facerolling 5 man heroics in gear 2 tiers above what the content is balanced around would stop talking like they know anything about the content that the spec is supposedly balanced around.

Sup. DKs are in the worst spot of all tank specs. When a warrior can get 2 shot by adds on Alysrazor non-block classes suffer. When DKs have 20k less armor than Bears DKs are almost non-existant.

Baelroc is the only boss I still go tank for, because AMS is the best ability for tanking Deci Blades. I can get hit for 300k in .7 seconds 12 seconds into the fight. Wall on the pull, MT taunt at 13, when the first debuff goes out, there's still a gap where I can be gibbed, and it does happen.
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85 Worgen Warrior
2385
If I read the comments on the 4.2 hotfix properly, it would seem that tanks are whining about being buffed. What. Vengeance nerf aside, it would now mean that DPS can stop worrying about pulling aggro (at least in 5 mans). Less DPS aggro = happier healer.

-using your primary resource should increase the effectiveness of your AM (so that we are not sitting idle or feel like dps/threat is a waste even if we are not in danger of losing agro).

-AM should not be spammy if you hit it every time its available its just part of a rotation and mares well stay passive for all the "compelling game play" it adds. There should be a logic to it e.g based on how powerful it currently is (or will be when used) or because you have excess resources (sort of like heroic strike for warriors) then it becomes a interesting. Hitting it because it procc'd or because you lose out if you don't hit it right away doesn't feel tanky.


I wouldn't mind having to do stuff like slot in a Last Stand or Enrage Regen in my normal rotation (rather then having to wait till near death) and have LS and Rallying Cry have different cooldowns (for example).

Then again, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind on exactly what the anti-AM camp is saying. All I'm hearing is "blahblahblah Blizz SUX this game isn't fun anymore".
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90 Gnome Warlock
1565
Sup. DKs are in the worst spot of all tank specs. When a warrior can get 2 shot by adds on Alysrazor non-block classes suffer. When DKs have 20k less armor than Bears DKs are almost non-existant.

Baelroc is the only boss I still go tank for, because AMS is the best ability for tanking Deci Blades. I can get hit for 300k in .7 seconds 12 seconds into the fight. Wall on the pull, MT taunt at 13, when the first debuff goes out, there's still a gap where I can be gibbed, and it does happen.


The DKs I'm referring to are those who think that because they're OP in 5 man heroics that they outgear it automatically means that they're similarly "special" in current content raids and heroic modes.
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85 Orc Death Knight
8445
I don't understand what all the fuss is about with DK tanking. I am a blood DK and i've tanked pretty much every boss in cata..except the few exceptions in FL..and i find DK tanking no problem. I believe the problem is that some people don't know how to or dont understand how to use a blood DK properly. I've been told by healers that im a great tank because i barely need to be healed at all. I never tanked pre-cata before and i picked up blood tanking with no problem at all. If you're having a problem with it you should learn your class and research it so that it becomes easier (because if your spec'd/gemmed/glyphed/etc it really is no problem at all). So i really don't believe there needs to be any changes to how a blood DK is cause it works perfectly fine if used properly. I don't mean to sound high and mighty over everyone, i just felt like posting how i felt about the subject of blood DK's. Feel free to comment any feed back =)
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90 Gnome Warlock
1565
Then again, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind on exactly what the anti-AM camp is saying. All I'm hearing is "blahblahblah Blizz SUX this game isn't fun anymore".


They want to model it after the Blood DK tanking style. The QoL and mechanics issues with the spec have been a point of contention for the DK community at large for well over a year now. That Blizzard thinks it's working well enough to model the other three specs after it, despite the class being so far below the other three in that they've finally acknowledged player complaints are valid*, is a point of concern for anyone with any sort of knowledge about the issue.

*: The the last time Blues commented on Blood DKs, just two weeks prior to FL being released IIRC, they basically told the those running 13/13 that they had L2P issues if they disliked Blizzard's current Blood model.
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90 Troll Rogue
18405
I am for.
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86 Tauren Death Knight
7490
08/17/2011 12:03 AMPosted by Bomdanil
I really wish the DKs whose only tanking experience comes from facerolling 5 man heroics in gear 2 tiers above what the content is balanced around would stop talking like they know anything about the content that the spec is supposedly balanced around.


Yup, but this is in General so I'd expect more posters coming on here that oblivious to the problems w/ the model at the high-end raid scene.
Edited by Cryotube on 8/17/2011 12:39 AM PDT
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90 Gnome Warlock
1565
08/17/2011 12:32 AMPosted by Fallenight
I am a blood DK and i've tanked pretty much every boss in cata..except the few exceptions in FL..and i find DK tanking no problem.


I'm sure you had no issues tanking nerfed T11 normals as a blood DK. The problems, while there, weren't class breaking in normal mode raiding (and certainly not on content that was hard nerfed by 20%). The seriousness of the problems with DK tanking don't become unignorably obvious, even to the most starry eyed fan, until you start playing in heroic modes and certain fights in FL content where getting globalled has a high chance of occuring (that whole reactive healing thing doesn't work too well if you're dead you see).
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90 Tauren Shaman
12680
I actually feel that tanking got easier this expac, what with Vengeance being added in. But hey, what do I know, my tank is a Feral Druid. Back in Wrath and TBC, Swipe spam was all I needed. I push way more buttons now, and I like it. Making it so the buttons I push actually matter? I like that even more.

But maybe that's because since my main is a DPS, I actually care about rotation. It just looks like all the people who suck at rotations can't go hide in the tank trees anymore, pretending they're actually good players.

Active mitigation, do want. Threat being non-issue, don't want. I've always enjoyed the challenge of holding threat. It got rather too easy to do that in Cata, and it just got easier. =\
Edited by Matuk on 8/17/2011 12:46 AM PDT
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85 Orc Death Knight
8445
I tanked the cata raids pre nerf first of all..and tbo any tank has a chance of dieing in heroic modes..its silly to think that one class has it easier than others in heroic mode. just my opinion
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90 Orc Death Knight
15775
08/17/2011 12:48 AMPosted by Fallenight
I tanked the cata raids pre nerf first of all..and tbo any tank has a chance of dieing in heroic modes..its silly to think that one class has it easier than others in heroic mode. just my opinion


Mathematically speaking, you're wrong. There's no question that DKs are the most likely to die of the tank classes.

08/17/2011 12:45 AMPosted by Matuk
Active mitigation, do want. Threat being non-issue, don't want. I've always enjoyed the challenge of holding threat. It got rather too easy to do that in Cata, and it just got easier. =\

Feral Druid mitigation is active. Druid threat = gem Agi and you're golden. You seem not know your class.
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90 Human Warrior
7775
I actually feel that tanking got easier this expac, what with Vengeance being added in. But hey, what do I know, my tank is a Feral Druid. Back in Wrath and TBC, Swipe spam was all I needed. I push way more buttons now, and I like it. Making it so the buttons I push actually matter? I like that even more.

But maybe that's because since my main is a DPS, I actually care about rotation. It just looks like all the people who suck at rotations can't go hide in the tank trees anymore, pretending they're actually good players.

Active mitigation, do want. Threat being non-issue, don't want. I've always enjoyed the challenge of holding threat. It got rather too easy to do that in Cata, and it just got easier. =\
LOl as a warrior tank you trying to tell me that I need more then the 16 and up to 20 buttons I use on a boss fight I need more.I see you posted on a shammy well as ele you mite use 7 maybe 8 not counting cc and hero.So ya sure I need to do more on my warrior.
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81 Goblin Mage
930
08/17/2011 12:51 AMPosted by Neßo
Mathematically speaking, you're wrong. There's no question that DKs are the most likely to die of the tank classes.


Thats why their called death knights. But jokes aside death knights aren't good in hard modes.
Edited by Queueue on 8/17/2011 1:06 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
12100
i just want to say that i rolled a Bear instead of a DK because i wasnt interested at all in an Active mitigation model. i enjoy my bear perfectly the way it is.


the day i tank my bear like a death knight is the day my main spec changes to DPS.

and i wont be the only one.

fix DKs so they can tank competitively. dont break all tanks to suck as hard as DKs, then model encounters around THAT.
Edited by Øtaku on 8/17/2011 1:19 AM PDT
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85 Undead Priest
2640
I posted this on GC's blog but I dunno if any CSRs respond to comments left there, so:

"What concerns me the most is that you reference Death Strike as the active mitigation model standard-bearer, but then you talk about Holy Shield and Shield Block -- when those are cooldowns and Death Strike is directly analagous to just plain blocking. Either active mitigation for block tanks would mean having to press a button every few seconds to be able to block, or Blood DKs need a small amount of Blood Shield generation based on damage taken / accumulated Vengeance.

I would also love to see something done, or at least proposed, to address the fact that for Blood DKs, higher avoidance dimishes the value of their Mastery. It doesn't make sense that accumulating one type of of avoidance/mitigation should directly devalue another."
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