If I liked low level pvp, why would I pay?

14 Goblin Hunter
3585
EDIT: One thing that DOES make me want to start my account up is Transmogrification! Imagine Your palli running around in the level 60 golden pvp gear at level 85.... epic! But...

Why would a fledgling newbie pvp enthusiast want to pay for this game after experiencing pvp in the 10-19 brackets? There are much fewer spells in this bracket, and yet the bracket is completely unbalanced. I understand how hard it can be keeping track of both high end and low end pvp, but there are a few incy wincy tweaks you could make, resulting in much less frustrating games for low level characters.

A new player’s decision for whether or not they will pay for this game is based upon the balance within this bracket. (I’ve had friends quit the game after getting frustrated with low level pvp… after 1 weeks trial… trust me, it happens). It seems ridiculous that people would judge a game based on something 'unimportant' like low level pvp, but they do, so learn that fact. If the game is horribly balanced at low levels, which is actually a vital set of levels because so many people play it.. then it would be logical to assume that high end pvp is just as bad.

So now to my constructive part... THE quickfire way to balance the classes:
Make these slight alterations for a better game. Suggestions in italics can be ignored if it will take too much development time.

Warlock status: Desperate. Utter garbage, no survival, no burst…..
-Voidwalkers Sacrifice trainable at level 10 (was 24 ish)
-Succubus’ seduce trainable at level 20 (was 28 ish)
-Death Coil available at level 16 (was 42)
-Summon Doomguard available at level 18 (was 58)

Warrior status: Needs help. Good dps, but far too to easy to ‘kite’…..
-Hamstring trainable at level 10 (was 26)
-Berserker stance trainable at level 15 (was 30)
-Intercept trainable at level 15 (was 50)

Shaman status: Needs help. Too easy to ‘kite’ as enhance and ele…..
-Frostshock trainable at level 16 (was 22)
-[Enhancement talent] Ancestral Swiftness talent swapped to first tier, or changed to a 1 point talent.
-[Elemental talent] Elemental Reach given to all elemental shamans upon choosing the elemental spec. Fits into Elemental Fury. Or at least moved to first tier so can hit hunters.


Paladin status: Decent. However, too easy to kite…..
-Hand of Freedom trainable at level 15 (was 52)

Mage status: Usable. Drops very fast, can’t do anything against a hunter…..
-Frost Armor trainable at level 18 (was 54)

Hunter status: Very powerful. Leave as is, since everything else is getting abilities to get on par with the hunter.

Rogue status: Poweful. Fine as is.

Druid status: Decent…..
-Possibly make skull bash trainable at level 16.

Priest status: Decent. Leave as is.


If these changes are not made to low level pvp, please tell me why anyone should bother paying for the game if they enjoy low level pvp, but can’t get competitive fun matches?

I love low level pvp, and won't be subscribing again. Low level pvp must be balanced. I await the implementation of my suggestions before i would even consider starting up my subscription again. Any new players also frustrated with your low level pvp experience?

Please Blizzard, do it for the integrity of your company. You were once renown for your balancing skills. Fix it.



Thanks

Busterbombz
Edited by Busterbombz on 8/26/2011 6:00 AM PDT
85 Worgen Death Knight
2765
Suggestions belong in "General Discussion" -
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/984270/

I'd have to search more for a Blue post from the US Forums, but here's one from the EU forums -
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2490769057?page=5#87

We are not deaf to the concerns raised about low-level PvP. We feel it needs some attention too.


While we do agree that low-level PvP isn't in an ideal state and has needed further consideration, our focus has remained where the players are: max-level PvP.

We don't intend to throw oil on the flame by such a comment and this doesn't mean we're completely ignorant of niche playstyles, just that we focus our efforts on where it'll have the greatest effect.

What's the answer? We do hear the feedback. When we have looked at the issue, it has simply just seemed too difficult – too tricky – to resolve in a way that we're happy with.

We currently believe resolving it will require much time and effort. But we acknowledge things aren't as great for low-level PvP as they could be and we do have a desire to pay attention to it.


~Edit~ And yes, I know that if you're not subscribing or you're on a trial account, you can't post in General. That doesn't mean you can post your suggestions here. (Especially since the Dev's don't tend to look here.)
Edited by Nullwolf on 8/26/2011 3:59 AM PDT
14 Goblin Hunter
3585
Thanks for providing info from a blue. Very disappointing to see what they wrote though.

regarding this:
08/26/2011 03:49 AMPosted by Nullwolf
While we do agree that low-level PvP isn't in an ideal state and has needed further consideration, our focus has remained where the players are: max-level PvP.


Realization needs to occur in the minds of certain folks that the people are in fact amongst the low level pvpers. Otherwise there wouldn't be any low level pvp. but there is lots of people participating in low level pvp, thus that's where the people are. Really, they need to understand that, and stop being so hands off. It's the little quick changes they can make which can add so much to the state of the game.

Edit - Well I'm providing potential customer feedback to the only place I can. This is to benefit Blizzard, not hamper it. Do you have their email I can send it too?
Edited by Busterbombz on 8/26/2011 3:58 AM PDT
85 Worgen Death Knight
2765
Edit - Well I'm providing potential customer feedback to the only place I can. This is to benefit Blizzard, not hamper it. Do you have their email I can send it too?


No. And I seriously doubt anyone has an e-mail address where suggestions would go. Can you imagine the sheer number of valid suggestions, not to mention the miscellaneous garbage, that would end up going to an address like that?

As far as I know, the General Discussion forums is the closest thing to a Suggestion Box that Blizzard has.

~Edit~ Here's a 5-page thread in the Battegrounds Forums -
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2957536025
Started at the beginning of this month.
Edited by Nullwolf on 8/26/2011 4:15 AM PDT
14 Goblin Hunter
3585
Ok thanks I will keep that thread bookmarked for updates.
85 Tauren Druid
0
Suggestions go into the forum that is appropriate for the suggestion. In this case, the Battleground Forum would be the best place. If no forum exists, then it goes to General. This is to make it easier for Developers working on a specific area to find ideas instead of trying to sift through a Suggestion Forum.


Anyways, twinking (staying at a lower level to bg) had never been a supported play style. Blizzard has made a few changes that Twinks asked for though, such as being able to lock your xp bar, giving them their own battleground bracket, and linking all battlegroups. But it is still not a supported play style. As such, you'll probably never see any balancing changes around lower levels.

The whole point of the game is to progress. Locking your XP to bg is not progression, and thus not supported.
14 Goblin Hunter
3585
Wasn't talking about twinking. Was talking about all classes being competitive ish at all levels. If that helps twinking so be it. Would you rather the devs didnt balance low level pvp in a bid to punish twinks?
Edited by Busterbombz on 8/26/2011 4:55 AM PDT
85 Worgen Druid
2000
TLDR version - hunters, rogues and priests do very well in low level pvp.

OP - this has been this way for a long time.
14 Goblin Hunter
3585
TLDR version - hunters, rogues and priests do very well in low level pvp.

OP - this has been this way for a long time.


About time for a change eh!

I even made some points showing exactly what could be quickly altered to make this change.

Warriors, paladins, warlocks and shamans used to be able to have a chance against hunters in vanilla, BC and wrath low level pvp. Now it is just ridiculous.
70 Orc Hunter
2940
but there is lots of people participating in low level pvp, thus that's where the people are

No, the people are in high level PvP.
Some people =/= most people.

The issue isn't just PvP centric. Right now all classes can level at approximately the same rate. Mobs at various levels are tuned to the powers players have to kill them at those levels.

1-84 player abilities are tuned to leveling, not PvP. Screw with the abilities to make PvP easier for some classes and you skew the PvE leveling game.

If you feel that you only want to do low level PvP, and you can't enjoy yourself with the current distribution of skills across classes, then perhaps this just isn't the game for you.
14 Goblin Hunter
3585
Exactly! Which is why i'm not paying. Thankyou for answering my question: 'why would I pay?' You provided the perfect reasoning for why a person like me wouldn't want to pay.

I despise the constant gear grind at high level pvp just to be competitive. I'm very casual, but still like the style of the game, and wish to enjoy an hour or so in the evenings jumping around a battleground after work.

Blizzard is losing out on potential customers by not catering to that crowd.

And the people rolling around in full heirlooms in all levels of battlegrounds is quite a large number, please don't deny that, it looks silly.


On another note, I believe you are incorrect about how changing the level for learning certain abilities would change the pve game. Do you know who the main damage dealer in almost every low level dungeon is? It's the tank.
How would adding a berserk stance to low level warriors, for example, alter PvE? It will just bring dps warrior closer to the dps of the almighty tank.
How would adding frost armour change low level pve? It wouldn't.
How would making frost shock available 6 levels earlier change pve? It wouldn't.
How would adding a low level doom guard to a warlocks arsenal every 10 minutes ruin pve for a warlock? It MIGHT make them a bit closer to tanks in burst damage in pve dungeons, still wouldn't change the pve game at all.

Really now, don't be so dramatic about the effects on PvE. It would hardly ruin it.
Edited by Busterbombz on 8/26/2011 5:35 AM PDT
From what you said, if lowlevel pvp was perfect you wouldn't need to or want to pay anyway.

Free trial is like giving you one peice of free candy, if you like it buy more, if you don't then spit it out and leave the store. You have no right to complain thet your "free" candy wasn't good enough for you. Have some dignity.
70 Orc Hunter
2940
08/26/2011 05:30 AMPosted by Busterbombz
I believe you are incorrect about how changing the level for learning certain abilities would change the pve game.

You're missing the point. It's not about ruining PvE, it's about balancing it within the game world. There's 30 specs that beat on PvE mobs. If you move an ability to a different level, what do you replace it with that won't make it OP in PvE? What do you do with the ability that previously occupied that lower level?

Blizz had a team spent months on balancing classes, specs, and abilities around PvE. They had a Beta running for 6 months taking feedback from thousands of players.
To waltz in at this point and say "just flip this with that" for a low level PvP toon is ignoring the reality that:
1. There's a conscious decision in place to balance PvP at level 85 and to balance PvE - and the corresponding game world - for leveling.
2. Messing with one does affect the other. That's been dramatically demonstrated since the original WoW Beta. Changes require a lot of time and resources to explore all the ramifications. Personally, I can think of other game areas that I, and I believe most other paying customers, would like to see Blizzard put tht effort into.
Low level PVP is a diversion on the way to 85. I don't care about the imbalance, I want those level 85 battlegrounds to be balanced.

That being said, you're right in saying warlocks are absolutely terrible in the 20's
85 Worgen Hunter
3995
I despise the constant gear grind at high level pvp just to be competitive.


Meh, you don't have to constantly grind to be competitive. You do to be the best, but if you just want to have fun, you are fine signing up for random BG's. Pick up the odd pvp piece here and there and you do alright. And do a bit of research and know what to do and you will be better than half the people in there anyway. I think all your arguments are based upon supposition you have not tested personally.
90 Human Mage
16110
If you are basing your entire decision on whether to buy a game on what happens at the lowest level of PvP that is inherently unbalanced...
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