Censure Hotfix Incoming

90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
Jesus. People complaining about a HOTFIX?

It's supposed to be a bandaid not a spec overhaul. Be thankful you got any sort of a buff at all instead of letting you languish until the next patch for a shot at being buffed.

People actually expecting new strikes etc etc in a hotfix obviously are new here.
85 Worgen Druid
1865
well hurray for that. now if censure gets the mana buff that insight has i may actually use it on my paladin. im sure ill be screamed at by all the racists whipping out the 'learn to play' and 'newb' hate slurs. but i honestly never use censure/truth as tank or ret because i simply burn through mana faster then that tiny lil blue icon tick on my paladin can regen it. when i did run censure/truth i found myself having to hit insight when i was almost out of mana and pop a few judgements before i could flip back to truth for the censure upkeeps.....besides that its dot didnt attach with my hammer of righteous' aoe holy burst limiting its effectiveness in mob threat holding.....
85 Tauren Paladin
TG
13015
Daxxarri, a question.

Why choose to buff Censure? Was it because it was the easiest thing to change for a server-side hotfix? What would be involved in doing something like adding an ability to a talent tree?

I ask this because Seal of Truth is used by both Ret and Prot. Threat is less of an issue than it was before the change, but regardless, this buff is going to affect Prot.

If a change was made to an ability deeper in the talent trees, it wouldn't affect the other specs.

I understand Censure does not hit that hard right now, but from what I've seen from other class changes, the design mentality is currently against multi dotting. With a buff to Censure, Judgment not having a facing requirement and having a 20 yard range, this could potentially be an issue.

I guess what I'm asking is, is Censure getting buffed because it was the easiest thing to buff, with the least effect on the other specs without requiring a client-side patch?
Edited by Klamnei on 9/9/2011 3:47 PM PDT
90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
Daxxari, a question.

Why choose to buff Censure? Was it because it was the easiest thing to change for a server-side hotfix? What would be involved in doing something like adding an ability to a talent tree?

I ask this because Seal of Truth is used by both Ret and Prot. Threat is less of an issue than it was before the change, but regardless, this buff is going to affect Prot.

If a change was made to an ability deeper in the talent trees, it wouldn't affect the other specs.

I understand Censure does not hit that hard right now, but from what I've seen from other class changes, the design mentality is currently against multi dotting. With a buff to Censure, Judgment not having a facing requirement and having a 20 yard range, this could potentially be an issue.

I guess what I'm asking is, is Censure getting buffed because it was the easiest thing to buff, with the least effect on the other specs without requiring a client-side patch?


It's the easiest thing to buff as it's passive amounts of damage and will have little to no impact on the PvP game. By applying a few % DPS gain through active abilities, it could have potential repercussions in the PvP environment by allowing more burst.

Same reason why Ferals got a buff through Savage Roar and Fury through auto attack. Passive damage is the only way to buff and have it only affect the PvE environment.
75 Troll Druid
670
09/09/2011 03:39 PMPosted by Verexïa
While that may not necessarily cure some of the current concerns about proc reliance, it should help smooth out damage a bit.



Perhaps make those procs scale with gear a bit better? A baseline of 20% and 15% (for AoW and DP respectively) is incredibly static. Haste is meant to increase our available resources, Retribution's resource is cooldowns. Why not make Haste increase the proc chances of AoW and DP?


More autoattacks and more Crusader Strikes means more procs. Jesus, do you even know what the abilities do?
75 Troll Druid
670
What part of, "Damage increase by a small % to level destruction with affliction and demo." do you not understand?


The fact you have two other specs, Destro is not a pressing issue.
85 Tauren Paladin
TG
13015


I think it is rather obvious and it has been addressed numerous times in this thread. They chose Censure because it could be changed through a hotfix whereas adding new talents or abilities would require a patch. Which is faster and can be done immediately? Are people honestly claiming they want to wait even longer for this spec to be addressed in any way at all?


The issue is that Seal of Truth is also used by Prot. There are other abilities that Ret uses that can be a simple number tweak that Ret uses more than Prot, such as Inquisition. My question was more directed at what the ramifications will be for Prot as well as Ret, as well as that multi-dotting was an issue in T11 which was changed for T12. Buffing a dot now just seems strange.
Edited by Klamnei on 9/9/2011 3:56 PM PDT
100 Human Paladin
15890
09/09/2011 03:49 PMPosted by Foiblesqt
More autoattacks and more Crusader Strikes means more procs. Jesus, do you even know what the abilities do?


True, but due to how haste scales, we cant get enough of it with current or possibly even future gear to have meaningful amounts of haste.

I'm glad they're looking at us and thankful for the buff, and hope that in the future with a client patch they'll take into account our proc reliant nature and smooth things out.

The issue is that Seal of Truth is also used by Prot. There are other abilities that Ret uses that can be a simple number tweak that Ret uses more than Prot, such as Inquisition. My question was more directed at what the ramifications will be for Prot as well as Ret, as well as that multi-dotting was an issue in T11 which was changed for T12. Buffing a dot now just seems strange.


Multi dotting on a melee isnt the same as on a caster, as they dont have to have targets to clumped up to do it, and due to recent threat changes most prots arent even using SoT anyways due to not really needing the extra threat. Though increasing Tank damage never was really an issue for anything anyways
Edited by Paladinchaz on 9/9/2011 3:56 PM PDT
100 Undead Rogue
16505
This gives me hope that maybe someday they'll look at rogue damage and do something about it.
85 Human Paladin
7590
Yes... Hotfix ret paladins and leave destruction warlocks near the bottom of the barrel in both pve and pvp, where as Ret is still viable in both.

This is very discouraging....


Really just stop it. Just because your pet issue isn't being taken care of right now right this instant doesn't mean it won't be addressed at some point. I hear Blizzard has more than one employee and can do multiple things simultaneously. This was a simpler fix hence why it is being done now whereas the issues with other classes are not even remotely the same.


You're joking right? The pet bug is for all pet classes not just warlocks FYI, and thats not even what im talking about! Destruction is probably the worst Dps spec in the game and the worst pvp spec in the game. Something needs to be done and the fact is, it could be done so easily that a simple damage increase (like the one rets are getting) Is EXACTLY what could push it up to viable in BOTH pvp and pve. Which would give us more flavor and choice, which would bring more players to playing warlocks, and then again more money in blizzard's pocket.

What part of, "Damage increase by a small % to level destruction with affliction and demo." do you not understand?

Retribution has no other DPS spec to respec to. Destruction warlocks can simply respec to Affliction and there isn't much of a gameplay change because they're both DPS specs. They covered this in a recent blog, you know.
85 Tauren Warrior
11195
09/09/2011 03:39 PMPosted by Masanori
Prot shouldn't use SoT after the threat buff.

For any situation where we need to maintain active threat over another tank or where we need to keep our DPS flowing to meet requirements (such as pre-nerf or even current heroic Ragnaros, depending on the group) it's still necessary.

Hence, the inquiry.


SoT is deff still used as much as it was before. Mana isnt an issue so that part of insight is useless, and the heal is so minimal that it would be barely noticed in heroic content. While i think the threat buff made insight a less derp option, SoT is still better simply because you help kill the boss faster. The damage it provides is substantial enough.
75 Troll Druid
670
09/09/2011 03:54 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
True, but due to how haste scales, we cant get enough of it with current or possibly even future gear to have meaningful amounts of haste.


What? No? You have 5.92% haste on gear. That means you get 5.92% more AoW procs, before buffs. This increases your DP chance from AoW AND CS.

As to Prot not using SoT, that's just a big nono.
100 Human Paladin
15890
09/09/2011 03:58 PMPosted by Foiblesqt
What? No? You have 5.92% haste on gear. That means you get 5.92% more AoW procs, before buffs. This increases your DP chance from AoW AND CS.


This is true in theory, but many raiding rets could tell you it doesnt always work out that way, having a better chance, still mean theres a chance, and you could have a chance to still not get any procs.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
18645
40% on a spell that does roughly 8% of our damage on single target fights....yeyyyyyyyy



now about rogues/dks/spriests/mages/warriors/hunters doing 10k+ more than rets.........
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11935
I love this, other classes can blow ppls up alot quicker but its always "ret" that gets QQ'ed about.
85 Tauren Warrior
11195
09/09/2011 03:54 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
Multi dotting on a melee isnt the same as on a caster, as they dont have to have targets to clumped up to do it, and due to recent threat changes most prots arent even using SoT anyways due to not really needing the extra threat. Though increasing Tank damage never was really an issue for anything anyways


Where do you see a mass swap of prot paladins from SoT? As far as I can tell the extra damage is still far more useful than a massive mana gain which isnt needed and a heal that really isnt needed.
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