Class Feedback – Rogue

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85 Undead Rogue
9310
What type of content do you focus on?
Both, although more recently PvP only

If PvE, what type of PvE?
Heroic Raids until my guild quit. I'm enjoying some time off, but I'll get back into them Soon(tm).

If PvP, what type of PvP?
Mostly regular BGs and arenas, but some rated BGs when I find a group.

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?
Purchasing poisons before a BG or arena. When raiding, I have enough stuff to grab from the bank that I usually remember to restock poisons, but if I'm logging on for a quick BG I usually forget.

What makes playing your class more fun?
In PvP, control. Being able to do competitive damage is never a bad thing either...
In PvE, I like the intensity of combat from the random combat potency procs. As assassination, it's nice to have fairly consistent damage.

What makes playing your class less fun?
PvP: High armor classes and either server lag or other latency. It's incredibly frustrating to try to hit someone who is persistently "out of range" no matter how hard you try. If I'm on top of someone on my screen, how is he 10 yards away?
In a way I feel bad for resto druids and disc/holy priests when I fight them. The damage I do to them compared with the damage I do to resto shaman and holy pallies isn't even comparable due to the difference in armor. Also, fighting feral druids who can match my damage but infinitely go defensive in bear form is disheartening.

PvE: Bandit's Guile. If there's one thing from my post that gets noted, I hope it's this.
Cyclical damage is fine, as long as we have some control over it. The worst part is that it's 30%. This is way too high. I feel completely gimped when I'm out of insight or in shallow insight. This talent alone has made it very, very hard for me to play combat since Cata's release (which is sad since I've played combat since vanilla with a two month exception in Naxx, but we don't have to talk about that).
Also, Tricks of the Trade on cooldown for the sake of using is way too similar to Hunger for Blood from days past. Since the threat component is trivialized, I'd really like to see this talent reworked somehow. Maybe make it a 30 minute buff that has a continuous threat value (previous 10 seconds only) and 3% damage buff instead?

How do you feel about your “rotation”?
Assassination is fun because it's somewhat consistent with a few cooldowns to use wisely.
Combat is fun because it's chaotic with some very powerful cooldowns when you need them.
I think vendetta, killing spree, and adrenaline rush could all have a slightly longer reset period. Bandit's Guile would maybe be more compelling if you were rewarded for using it well, like having a rupture stay at whatever insight value you executed it for as long as you keep it refreshed.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
Rework Bandit's Guile and Tricks of the Trade
Increase the effectiveness of Expose Armor
Make poisons spells instead of items
Let me use a sword offhand again D:
Pick Pocket reworked to summon a pet monkey with a fez hat to pick pocket for me.

What spells do you use the least?
Pick Pocket and Pick Lock
possibly Expose Armor and Disarm Trap, although they get a fair amount of use
78 Undead Warlock
890
-What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
Both equally

-If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Raids

-If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
Arena mostly, RBGs

-What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?
A longer duration on poisons would be nice but I like having them in my bag to apply as opposed to a buff or having no duration. Poisons separate rogues from other melee classes and swapping them out for various opponents in arena keeps me on my toes.


-What makes playing your class less fun?
Having only one real viable spec for pvp. Not being a class people would jump to bring to a raid; we really have nothing to bring to the table. Having to build up so many abilities for pvp

-How do you feel about your “rotation”?
I'm content with the way Mut is right now, but I personally hate most of the Cataclysm changes to Combat. Revealing Strike feels like it was just tossed in and serves no real purpose to define the spec. Bandit's Guile makes target switching wonky.

-What’s on your wish list for your class?
More choices for weapons as Combat. A small buff to Wound poison. A change to combat's rotation. Putting the DR on kidney and cheapshot back the way they were :) I can dream!

What spells do you use the least?
Expose Armor, Combat Readiness
Edited by Cocayn on 9/12/2011 12:39 PM PDT
85 Undead Rogue
7995
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PvE

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Heroic 25's

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Poisons stacking to 20 taking up 4 slots of inventory Space minimum.
    1 hour application.
    Assassins step enchant is useless for Assassination Rogues.

What makes playing your class more fun?
    Energy. We don't ever run OOM, and our Rage is never starved ;)

What makes playing your class less fun?
    Lack of competitive DPS on specific fights or having to respec/reforge to MAKE it competitive for every fight.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    Baseline Shadowstep<<
    Firstly I'd like to say I play all 3 specs in a raiding environment and I play them well with top 5-10 parses for each spec in current heroic tiers.

    Assassination:
    Easily the most boring rotation we have, it's extremely easy to play and not very embracing at all. I'm extremely disappointed in the rotation. The ramp up time is aweful when target switching, and you literally only hit 3 buttons (Mut, Rupture, Envenom) after your initial opener. I think you could spice it up by making a change to Shadowstep, and making it baseline. Something along the lines of "Increases your next envenom by X" in addition to the Ambush bonus you already gain. This wouldnt change the rotation too much but atleast gives you another button to hit, and a small window to close off those envenoms before losing that ShS buff. Assassination is the bottom of the 3 specs currently in PvE for single target, and I think an increased envenom every 20s would be a nice addition.

    Combat:
    Very bulky rotation, however it's immensely fun for soloing, and a large portion of the current tiers fights. The cleave in combat I think is great. For the rotation aspect its similar to mutilate in only requiring the use of 3-4 buttons outside of CD usage, however the larger energy gains makes it seem more fast pace and doesn't mimic the same "boring" feeling that assassination gives you.
    I don't think the energy capping is an issue during AR, since we are able to use an ability on every GCD, small price to pay and regardless wields a dps increase. The AoE is relatively weak, FoK is practically useless and I'm not sure what it would take to fix this, but it would be nice to see an improvement in this regard.
    The biggest issue with combat is the talent Banduits Guile. The ramp up time is rediculous and indirectly encourages a rogue to ignore fight mechanics and tunnel vision a single target. I think it needs to be decreased the amount of stacks required to reach your 30%. Also for friendlier target switching, allow Shadowstep(Baseline) to transfer your stacks of Insight along side of redirect.
    Also wtb 1.4 speed swords :|, having a massive main hand with a puny dagger off hand looks ridiculous, we want swords.

    Subtlety:
    Easily the funnest spec to play and the most rewarding once mastered. Subtlety is currently our highest single target DPS spec in a raid environment. The rotation is amazingly fun like I said, the eviscerate refreshing rupture just feels right, and recup restoring energy makes sense as well.
    The two issues I have with this spec is the maintaining of the Hemo debuff (yes it's 1 minute I know) and the lack of multi target abilities. I'd like to see Serrated Blades refresh your hemo buff as well as the rupture, with such a complicated rotation, having an extremely short 3s window to refresh 3 of your finishers, it can easily all go to waste when throwing a single hemo in. Your Slice can fall or even worse your Rupture. It's already complicated enough, adding in the need for the hemo debuff is extremely frustrating when it causes you to lose your Rupture, Slice, or Recup.
    Lastly, the lack of AoE or cleave for Sub makes it absolutely useless on a few fights. The ability to spread Hemo/Rupture bleeds to multiple targets around you I think would do us a great deal of improvement for sub rogues on those AoE trash fights. This would still have a ramp up if not preemptively prepared for the AoE phase.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Baseline Shadowstep
    1.4 speed OH swords
    Reliable FoK for combat
    Some form of cleave/AoE for PvE subtlety


What spells do you use the least?
    Expose Armor
    Pick Pocket
    Shiv
90 Night Elf Death Knight
13135
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

My focus is purely for PvE work.

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

All kinds of PvE. Heroic dungeons, raids, and regular raids

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could
be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.


I've seen a lot of people already quote this one, but poisons are a definitive pain to me. I have multiple bags filled to the brim with all sorts of items for dungeons, raids, crafting, quests, etc. Poisons do tend to take up space in my bags. I'd think that you could possibly fix this by making poison applications a spell of sorts, similar to how shamans have weapon enchants.

What makes playing your class more fun?

I don't have the same feel of it since cataclysm, but I loved feeling like... well, a rogue. That feel of sneaking up on the enemy, then surprising them with a devastating attack for PvE. The rigid rotation for the class also feels very smooth.

What makes playing your class less fun?

The only major complaints I have is the minor issues with energy and target stance requirements. Energy (especially with assassination spec'd rogues) tends to be eaten up extremely quickly with no real noticeable return of energy in a timely manner. After a couple of mutilates to get those 5 combo points needed for an envenom, I'm literally on zero, meaning I have to wait a bit before I can actually hit the target with a spell, whereas another class just rolls through their rotation without hesitation. Also, haste doesn't seem to have a very noticeable affect on the energy bar like it does for other classes. The last issue is that there are quite a few boss fights where we cannot actually stand behind the boss due to positioning, or simply due to a massive amount of movement. For us to actually position ourselves behind the boss for the last 35% to use murderous intent could be suicidal, such as in the case of Chimeron. I feel that abilities such as this give the class a unique feel, but unless there are changes to boss fights were we can position ourselves behind the boss safely and not be interrupted, then this talent needs to be applied to a different ability, or to have the ability re-worked to be a bit more convenient.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

The Combat rotation for rogues seems a little jerky, but it does work pretty well in bursts. the Assassination class has a very streamline style to it, making it very ideal and powerful. All in all, the rotations aren't the priority.

What’s on your wish list for your class?

Here's what I'm hoping for:

    Poisons to no longer require reagents, and instead to be used as a spell.

    Another AoE ability for rogues to use OTHER than FoK.

    Better energy gains or return during fights. (Since i've heard so many combat rogues complain about too much energy, just give us adrenaline rush).

    A re-working on how rogues must position themselves for cerain abilities.

    Better damage overall (we don't tend to match up as well against other melee classes)

    Re-establish separate CD's for Combat Readiness and Cloak of Shadows (since CR is useless in PvE)

    more agi off hand weapons for combat spec'd rogues, like maces, swords, and axes.

    A change in the requirements of hit and expertise. both of these numbers are so high, it has shied me away from playing my rogue anymore. If we could get the numbers lowered just a little bit, it'll mean we can spend our time re-forging into more useful stats, like mastery and possibly haste.


What spells do you use the least?

Combat Readiness is one of the top spells i don't use. Cloak, when glyphed into it, takes both melee damage reductions, and "cleanses" most poisons and spells off the rogue. It has much more utility than combat readiness.

Smoke Bomb. This spell is supposed to interfere with targeting. It's a helpful PvP ability, but sort of wasted in PvE.

Deadly throw. Again, another PvP ability, not PvE.

Gouge. I'll say it again, it's PvP, not PvE.

On a side note, mind-numbing poison seems like a wasted poison now-adays, since no one ever really uses it.
90 Night Elf Rogue
11255
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

I mostly PvP as sub, but I dabble in PvE combat occasionally.

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

I run low ranked to about 1600 ranked arenas, and lots of bgs

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

Hmm...There's not much i notice obviously here. One thing I do dislike is the absolute need to use daggers as sub. It feels like Im neglecting all the other weapon types, and will also somewhat limit transmogrification options in 4.3.

What makes playing your class more fun?

I like the capacity rogues have for abilities that arent necessarily pure damage abilities, such as our stuns. I like that we have more of a choice of what to use, and that the playstyle is very much "What's happening right now and whats the best way to respond to it?" which leaves a lot more room for player creativity.

What makes playing your class less fun?


When we do need to use our damage abilities, we've got one or two buttons (in sub) that we use constantly: Hemo and eviscerate. Shadowdance when we're in position for a good amount of burst, but it really feels like we've got less damaging utility, plus its pretty boring to be sitting there hitting the same button over and over again.

As a side note, those that dont spec combat dont get any form of aoe until level 80. That's a big handicap when we're talking dungeons.


How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

See above answer.

Its also a bit of a pain when you get five combo points stacked on something, say in a dungeon, and then it dies and those points can be redirected (and no one uses that anyway, plus it has a long CD) used for recuperate, or used for SnD. Plus, then you have to store them all up again then have the same thing happen. Ive seen a lot of the community asking for combo points stacking on the rogue, I support this.

What’s on your wish list for your class?

1. A lower level aoe
2. Combo points stacking on rogue
3. More varied damaging abilities

What spells do you use the least?


Expose armor isnt even on my bars, and I use redirect very rarely.

I find shiv useful for its enrage dispel, but in pve its useless. I also rarely use gouge due to the positioning requirement and the no-hitting rule.


Edit for a bit of formatting
Edited by Elindez on 9/12/2011 12:42 PM PDT
85 Goblin Rogue
9170
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
both
If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
raids

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
all three

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
-Poisons, they should be like a shamans weapon enchants and not have a confirmation box to reapply them when there's still time left on the poisons.

AoE Yes, Combat has Blade Flurry, which is a great way to pad the meters, but Sub and Combat lack the damage that Assassination gets from Fan of Knives. The other problem being Assassination's AoE is reliant on the mobs staying alive long enough so deadly poison can stack up to 5.

Stuff dies with combo points on it. Yes, you can use redirect/snd/recup if you pop it quick, but if you quickly target switch you will lose the aforementioned combo points

Ramp-up time while switching targets. I'm not referring to just combo points, but poison ramp up time, Combat insight, putting rupture back up, all while trying to juggle SnD (and Recup if you're Sub)

Faerie Fire No cd 100% stealth counter lasts 45secs in pvp.

What makes playing your class more fun?
Stealth

What makes playing your class less fun?

ramp up time is really lame as well as bad target switching. If ramp up was just combo points it would be fine but add bg, 5 stack deadly, rupture, snd, recup for sub and it becomes to much.

Bandit's Guile

Bandit's Guile

Sub and combat having no aoe dmg assassination long aoe ramp up.

Faerie Fire No cd 100% counter lasts 45secs in pvp. Needs to not prevent stealth, or last 5-10secs or have along cd since its 100% counter. Pve would stop the long cd part so the other two would be be picks
How do you feel about your “rotation”?
ramp up time is really lame as well as bad target switching. If ramp up was just combo points it would be fine but add bg, 5 stack deadly, rupture, snd, recup for sub and it becomes to much.

Sub's energy needs to work off snd or recup

What’s on your wish list for your class?
-faster ramp up times
some combat and assassination pvp love.
For cloak to go back to 1min or 1.5min cd untalented
no ramp up aoe for assassination
aoe dmg period for combat and sub

What spells do you use the least?
combat readiness in pvp and pve
deadly throw
Expose Armor
Edited by Gankage on 9/12/2011 3:20 PM PDT
85 Human Rogue
5980
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Raids

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
Arenas

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
I just wish assassination rogues could bring a little more to the raid other 8% spell damage. Their dps is lower than combats on cleave fights and now lower than subtlety's on straight up tank and spank fights. Also how I cannot fight DKs or Feral druids anymore in arenas, do to the Combat Readiness nerf and Cloak of Shadows Nerf. As well when there is a spell caster and physical dps in the arena I am completely useless.

What makes playing your class more fun?
I love being a rogue, sneaky and stealth. Assassination really needs their opener on boss fights most of the times.

What makes playing your class less fun?
When I am in a raid/arena and knowingly being beat in dps when they only using 2 or 3 buttons for a rotation, and in arena its the same deal.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
I feel the Combat Rogue rotation is extremely easy for how much dps it can put out. I guess this is the same for other classes as well. Only 2 buttons they need mash. Maybe add Rupture and Slice and Dice mix it up a little bit.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
Maybe a faster ramp up on Assassination rotation, and revert the Combat Readiness and Cloak of Shadows CDs. It's nearly impossible to fight dk or feral with those on the same CD

What spells do you use the least?

Expose Armor, this ability is completely is useless is pve because your tank but the debuff on anyways, and in pvp you are just wasting a global to try and focus down a kill. Depending on what you are facing, I dont see expose armor as being that great.
  • What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

  • PvP mostly. A few Heroics with a Friend occasionally.
  • If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

  • BH and Heroics.
  • If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

  • A lot of PuG BGs
  • What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

  • Definitely Poisons taking up bag space and having a duration. It persists through death why can't it be applied once and last till cancelled like Shaman Weapon Imbues?
  • What makes playing your class more fun?

  • The insane control I have on PvP. Oh and <3 Vanish.
  • What makes playing your class less fun?

  • PvP - Being so reliant on CDs. I feel like I can't even take on a good Frost Mage unless I have CoS and Vanish up. Also staying in combat for ridiculously long periods of time. Not sure if it's a bug or what but when I'm in a BG sometimes I'm stuck in combat for several minutes before I just blow Vanish in order to restealth.
    PvE - I really don't like looking at Recount and seeing my top 3 damaging abilities are Instant Poison, Deadly Poison and Melee Attack; all passive.
  • How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

  • PvP - I love Sub. Was very reluctant to switch from Mut after 4.0 but I dig it a lot now.
    PvE - As I said before I really don't like that my top damaging abilities are all passive. Other than that the rotation is ok. Challenging in the sense I need to keep Rupture and SnD up at all times. One thing I don't care for with Mut is it still hurts a lot when switching targets because of the ramp up time.
  • What’s on your wish list for your class?

  • Make Deadly Throw interrupt baseline; interrupts spell casting and locks that school for 3 sec. Then maybe give a 2/2 talent that increases it. Just make it so its range is outside melee and/or give it a shared CD with Kick. If that won't work maybe making Sprint remove slowing abilities.
  • What spells do you use the least?
  • [/ul]
    CR since 4.2 cause CoS is too important. Only use Feint for Bladestorm. Pick Pocket and Deadly Throw for sure. Expose Armor.
    Edited by Lobstah on 9/12/2011 1:24 PM PDT
    PvP More versatility for Mut, Sub feels like the only very viable spec because of the survivability and movement capability. I feel really gimped when i am mut because you dont have the benefits of really anything other than doing slightly more dmg. I just wish there were 2 good specs for pvp that are equally viable.
    Pve Im combat right now and ive been mut. I think the rotation is a little bit more intresting for both since cata has been released. I just wish that we had more of a benifit for the raid other than big numbers. Like a buff that rogues provide to players or a aura or something would make me feel a lot more useful in raids. Because i dont have to buff i dont have to do anything really besides my rotation and ToT (which is in it).

    Clock and CR would be very very nice if they were on sepperate cooldowns. It just makes pvp and pve more annoying because you have to decide well do i wanna get destoryed by the caster or do i wanna get destroyed by the melee. Shiv has verry little use other than applying CP's to rogues that have evvasion up, Expose armor is pretty useless. If i could get 1 random buff change it would be that sprint worked with prep again and you could shadow step while snared. I know u use to be able to in BC and havent for a while but it would make rogue vs mage a lot easier. In Pve FoK is kidna useless i really do more damage turning blade flurry on and doign my rotation on the adds. The damage is kinda weak from that.


    I also and this is probabbly the most thing i want changed for pve..ADD MATCHING WEAPONS BA[/b]CK.[/u] I really hate being combat and having a sword and dagger OH. If there was a fast sword in my OH i would love the look and feel so much more. or even a mace and sword i just would prefer to not be forced into using a dagger because there is literally nothing else out there. I feel like we are the only class without a matching set of weapons shamans have claws that match warriors have claws and axes. I just really want to have i guess the feel of using what i want to use. Even with transmogrification comming up im still going to have to use a sword and a dagger.... Please Please Please add sword sowrd or mace mace or axe axe combos back into the game.
    32 Draenei Shaman
    110
    I'll keep it short.

    I love the class.

    I love the rogue/ninja/stealthy assassin type feel.

    I just wish there were more things involved with our "sneak" abilities such as pickpocketing (even in pvp, slight debuff maybe?), picking locks (Where'd all the treasure chests go?), detecting/disarming traps, *COUGH* Ravenholdt *COUGH*.

    I'd love to see class specific quests across the board, but for rogues specifically, a (*COUGH* Ravenholdt *COUGH*) challenge to sneak into dungeons/ enemy city and steal an item/ assassinate someone.
    90 Blood Elf Rogue
    10680
    • What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PvP

    • If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Heroics

    • If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    All of the Above (majority BGs)

    • What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Inefficiency to Re-stealth with Bleed effects.
    Cloak of shadows is ingenious for allowing us to Re-stealth from magical DoT abilities, yet we have nothing against bleed damage

    • What makes playing your class more fun?
    Luxury/Freedom of Stealth, the sheer Fun-Factor of Shadowstep

    • What makes playing your class less fun?
    Lack of "Flashy" abilities such as icebound fortitude, dispersion, or holy nova, etc

    • How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    Wish we had other alternatives then just Sinister Strike/Revealing Strike, or Hemo/Backstab, or Mutilate/Backstab to build combo points, i actually like the rake effect ferals have

    • What’s on your wish list for your class?
    - 30 second energy boost ability (always been jealous of feral druids and their tiger's fury)
    - Fan of Knives channeled (i hated the button mashing feeling for an AoE)
    - Shadowstep trainable for all rogues regardless of spec (I still consider it the most "fun" ability of a rogue)
    - Smoke Bomb thrown, similar to the placement method of death and decay
    - Distract turning around a target, regardless of combat, regardless of stealth

    • What spells do you use the least?
    Shiv
    Edited by Felion on 9/12/2011 12:51 PM PDT
    85 Gnome Rogue
    11695
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PvE

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Heroic Raiding

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Energy capping as combat under adrenaline rush, heroism, or even getting unlucky combat potency procs when you use no energy cost ability (feint, tricks) . The issue only increases every time a new tier is released and we have better gear.

    Poisons not acting in a similar way to Shaman imbues. Most classes have had their reagents completely removed through glyphs or just in general, but I still lose 10 bag slots to poisons.

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    The main reason I have been playing a Rogue for 7 years is because I enjoy the energy/combo point system. I find the most fun times I've had playing a Rogue was not when I was spamming something every GCD, but rather intelligently planning out my course of action with energy pooling. The only real example of this was TBC Mutilate with the Ashtongue rep trinket, where you had to rotate 3 finishers with Mutilate and you had to maximize your ability usage with your two buffs (trinket and Find Weakness). It wasn't possible to keep them up 100% of the time, so it felt like you had a lot of control with your damage.

    Something like that doesn't happen anymore. Now, you can completely get away with:
    a) Mutilate: get to 4-5 cp, if rupture is down, put it up, otherwise envenom
    b) Combat: use cooldowns. spam combo points. if snd is down put it up, otherwise, get to 5 cp and eviscerate

    It's not completely optimal to do the rotations I've listed, obviously, but the difference between a skilled player and the person who just follows this rough outline is miniscule.

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    As a pure DPS, having uncompetitive damage on a multi target fight bothers me. These types of fights are obviously the norm now. I also think it's unfun to completely demolish damage meters by leaving blade flurry on for 80% of the fight (Halfus, Magmaw, Staghelm), although I understand that Rogues need a niche like that. I feel as if the damage could be moved around somewhere else.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    Combat and Mutilate are too simple. Sub suffers too much from swapping targets, but has a decent rotation.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    - Poisons like Shaman weapon imbues.
    - Mutilate making a return to work like it did in TBC (non refreshing SND's, find weakness).
    - Combat getting a way to deal with bursty energy gains, or an ability that is only worth using if you're energy capping (like a Warrior's Inner Rage)
    - Deadly poison stacks being reduced to 3 instead of 5 to lower ramp up for all 3 specs, since we already have combo point ramp up, debuff ramp up, etc.
    - Rupture getting a damage buff to make it actually a significant choice
    - Revealing Strike could also use a buff

    What spells do you use the least?
    - Smoke bomb - for the most part, boss abilities are flagged to ignore it, it seems.
    - Combat readiness - cloak is always better in raids
    - Shiv - Probably a 10 man concern but there haven't been any enrages to dispel in raids for a long time other than trash.
    Edited by Pinch on 9/12/2011 3:24 PM PDT
    85 Human Rogue
    9950
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

    -Both.

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

    -Raiding only. 5 mans are too much of a grind, especially with the long dps queues.

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

    -reg BGs, some arenas and some RBGs. Rogues are very fun for pvp except for the fact that you are completely forced to play sub.

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

    -The stealth changes definitely helped. I don't like the lack of immunity that vanish used to have (Its EXTREMELY frustrating when you get cc'd the same moment you vanish).

    -I don't like the RNG that goes into poison procs. Its very frustrating seeing deadly poison fall off during an encounter just due to lack of procs. I don't like the 3 layers of RNG that go into poisons applying (white swing has to hit, then poison has to proc, then it has to not be resisted) I'd like to see shiv bypass resistances (dont think its reasonable to make a 100% physical damage spec like sub have to get spell pen)

    -I don't like the way you guys went about the Cloak of shadows/Combat readiness nerf, I understand that you felt that it rogue survivability needed to be nerfed but making abilities share a Cooldown IS NOT FUN. There could be better ways going about this.

    What makes playing your class more fun?

    -I like being a pure melee dps class. I know thats what keeps alot of players away from the class but its something I like about it. When I join a group I just tell them I'm a rogue and thats all they really need to know. I don't have to deal with telling them I'm not a tank or a healer, I don't have to fiddle around with an off set.

    -Stealth is awesome

    What makes playing your class less fun?

    -Positioning requirements aren't fun. Not at all. If you want to pvp as a rogue and you have an MS higher than 200, you might as well reroll another class. Sad but true.

    - Rogue target swapping is very terrible in pve. (Mainly assassination and combat) redirect helps but its not really enough. You have to start stacking your poisons, your combos, reapply rupture, redo slice if it falls off during the switch. Its not very easy.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    - I really enjoy that assassnation rotation. It's easy to pick up at first but is difficult to master with things like timing CDs and procs, pooling energy for the right moments.

    -I don't like the combat rotation. It's way to spammy and boring for my taste. I'd personally like to see it have more flavor but I know there are plenty of die hard combat fans out there that like it the way it is.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    -I'd like to see alot of our pvp orriented abilities have more usefulness in pve and vice versa.

    -Not a whole lot else I want, I'm very satisfied with my class, its the reason why I've stayed on it for so long.

    What spells do you use the least?

    -Like I said earlier we have a lot of pvp or pve only abilities. Lets be honest. Feint is pve only, combat readiness is pvp only (or questing I guess), smoke bomb is pvp only. Blind (and most stuns) are pvp/ 5 mans only.
    85 Worgen Rogue
    3755
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

    Pve with a little pvp on the side



    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

    Raids

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]


    I do some arena, but I'm not too serious with it


    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

    Randomly getting spotted in stealth from huge distances, needing to carry around stacks of 5 different types of poisons

    What makes playing your class more fun?

    Active playstyle, good damage and mitigation


    What makes playing your class less fun?

    Huge ramp up time.


    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    It could be a little more complex, but overall I like it.



    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    Reduce ramp up time (maybe make it so deadly poison only stacks to 3 but does same damage and make combo points stack on the rogue for a start), reduce energy requirement for FoK, baseline shadowstep and let it break roots for sub, disarm traps without being in stealth.


    What spells do you use the least?

    Expose armor, distract








    edit: If we need to keep the huge ramp up time, we need to also be putting out the highest dps after we have ramped up to even the playing field.
    Edited by Marauder on 9/12/2011 2:21 PM PDT
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    -PvP

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    -None

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    -All pvp, I'm hooked.


    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    -Backstab/ambush ALWAYS being stopped via lag.
    -Also, rogue's burst is outragous while dancing, but their damage is laughable outside of cooldowns. Nerf dance and buff overall damage?

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    -Being the scout in RBGs. I HATE homogenization which seems to be what blizzard is going for nowadays. I feel unique when I'm asked to check out how many people are with their flag carrier.

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    -As stated before, other's lag completely counters rogues.
    -On a more "game dynamic" level: being kited by a feral druid which is supposed to be the mock-rogue class is pretty frustrating.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    -Rotation is fine overall, only field I have no complaints.


    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    -Improved sprint in Sub while not sacrificing the other necessary talents would help me have a chance at touching feral druids.

    What spells do you use the least?
    -Expose armor could use a little love.

    Also, with a note to Arena. healers seem to be revolved around 3s/5s when it comes to healing. In my honest opinion healers could use some more nerfs when it comes to 2s arenas. I understand that 2s are not the "primary" pvp objective anymore (hence the removing of rewards), 2s are a very fun bracket to play that is still, even past the nerf, a very popular bracket. A little adjustment here and there would make the bracket even more enjoyable to all players.
    85 Night Elf Rogue
    11630
    # What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PvE

    # If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    raids

    # If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

    # What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    nothing really ,

    # What makes playing your class more fun?
    Fast pace rotations and being able energy staved

    # What makes playing your class less fun?
    Bandit's guile as combat bandit is just slow ramp-up period

    # How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    its pretty good, i see no problems there

    # What’s on your wish list for your class?
    nothing

    # What spells do you use the least?
    deadly throw
    shiv
    expose armour
    90 Human Rogue
    6495
    What type of content do you focus on?
    PvE - Hardcore Raiding

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Really nothing quite left to say for rogues here. Really the only thing would be that we still have to carry poisons - Possibly could just make that a spell or a single reusable item.

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    I've always liked the energy/combo points function of the Rogue class, reason it's been my main since Vanilla.

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Tricks of the Trade. The concept of it is a good idea, but in practice it turns out not to be. With set bonuses making it required use, and the small damage benefit on top of it, it's just not a fun ability. Personally I think it could function more like FM or DI, just a permanent flat 2% DPS increase or something.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    I mainly play Mutilate, I've played it since BC. Play Combat here and there, but this is gonna be based purely on Mut spec.

    Our rotation is EXTREMELY too full of RNG. I can flucuate 2-3k on an OVERALL 5-6 minute boss fight. Not to mention the start of fight burst - Some times I reach 50kish, other times I barely break 35k before settling down. I really like the fact that my rotation is all about timing everything perfect, it really does separate the good players from the bad players. That being said...Venomous Wounds is a *horrible* talent. I'll just go straight off Baleroc here, since that's the best "patchwerk" fight recently.
    On September 9th, I had a 92.3% (329s) Rupture uptime and had 1220 energy returns from VW. Fight length 5:52.
    On September 2nd, I had a 91.6% (325s) Rupture uptime and had 1090 energy returns from VW. Fight length 5:58.
    4 seconds longer rupture uptime, which accounts for 1-2 rupture ticks, and 130 more energy returns. That's 13 ticks of VW - And on top of the energy, you also lose the 13 ticks worth of damage (if 2/13 crit) is close to 115k damage.
    Compare those two to the world 10 parse I hold currently on Baleroc;
    August 24th, 91.9% (327s) uptime and 1223 energy returns in a 5:54 fight.
    Let me repeat that.
    327 seconds of Rupture, 1223 energy returns (I'd assume I capped once and lost 7 energy from a tick). That's less uptime, with a higher energy return. Something really needs to change in this department.

    The only other thing to mention would just be ramp-up time. We have quite possibly the highest ramp up time of any class besides Kittys (And I don't know what the kitty rotation is anymore, so I could be wrong there). Our burst target swapping DPS is non-exsistant. On Rag transitions, sometimes I get some good RNG and can push out about half the damage our warriors are doing to Sons and Scions. Other than making Deadly Poison a non-stacking DoT and stacking Combo Points per player not target, sadly nothing to really do about it. Redirect is....lol. 'Nough said. I'm not saying "OMG WT. WARRIORS HAVE NO RAMP TIME WHY DO WE", but it's just being taken to the extreme in our case. Heroic Cho'gall? Rogues didn't touch adds. Just wasn't worth it. You won't see a Rogue killing indvidual Molten Elementals on Heroic Rag if you spawn some out of the group. Again, it's just not worth it.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    See above, the bit about ToTT, and the last section.

    What spells do you use the least?
    Shiv, Smoke Bomb (lolbomb), Redirect (again, lol), Throw, Deadly Throw, Combat Readiness (Now that it's linked to CoS..see below), Dismantle....really just mainly any utility we have because it's used for PvP, not raiding.

    Now, this all being said, I've said this before and I'll say it again - Please, please pleasepleaseplease seperate PvP and PvE. It's not working. Trying to balance between the two doesn't work. Will it cause a lot of confusion at first? Yes. It will. But constantly having to hotfix classes, nerf abilites, etc all because some PvP or Raid team found a trick and then having to make an attempt at rebalancing after the changes...it's...maddening.
    90 Worgen Rogue
    8920
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

    PvE

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]


    Heroics and Raids

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]


    None

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.


    Poisons are an annoyance more than a class defining trait. This can be mitigated by making application faster, almost instantaneous.

    What makes playing your class more fun?


    Unique utility, like Tricks of the Trade and having 2 CC's. I love stealth. I love our threat manageability (although this isn't much of an issue since 500% threat buff)

    What makes playing your class less fun?


    Positional requirements for some abilities

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)


    Assassination - Rotation is great, except for little or no cooldowns.
    Combat - Rotation is hectic, but I like it. Only problem is sometimes I feel like I am constantly behind the curve. I should have pushed this button 2 seconds ago...Lots to keep track off. Haste scaling leaves me trying to find energy dumps, leading to button mashing rather than intelligent, well thought off choices.
    Sublety - Tried only once, when I was the sole rogue on Heroic Twin Dragons. Very unforgiving rotation. My internet connection is not the best, which causes real pain points with this build and rotation.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?


    Better burst on demand, less reliance on passive damage, much faster ramp up to mitigate target switching issues.

    What spells do you use the least?


    Never used: Gouge, smoke bomb, combat readiness, deadly throw, expose armor,
    Never used this expansion: dismantle, disarm trap.
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