Class Feedback – Paladin

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Community Manager
We’re looking for feedback on your class as we work on changes and adjustments for a future game update. While we may be making some specific class changes in 4.3, what we’re looking for in this thread is overall feeling on the class as a whole for more long term changes in the future.

Here is the kind of feedback that is NOT helpful in this particular thread:

  • Concerns that your current damage, healing or tanking is not competitive. While this kind of feedback is often useful, it also is the kind of thing that can change from patch to patch, and so it isn’t as useful for long term vision changes.

  • Concerns that your feedback is being ignored or that we don’t take these kind of posts seriously, or otherwise posting anything that is off-topic or not in the spirit of this thread’s intent.

  • Requests for responses to your suggestions or feedback. The purpose of this thread is to get information to us, not the reverse.

We hope you take these threads seriously, as we’re going to be reading them very carefully. We ask that you take time to think and formulate a useful and objective reply, as this feedback could be used to alter your class in substantial ways.

We won’t be replying here addressing your concerns. This is purely for us to read your answers to the below questions.

Please copy the below questions into your reply and answer each one.

  • What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

  • If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

  • If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

  • What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

  • What makes playing your class more fun?

  • What makes playing your class less fun?

  • How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

  • What’s on your wish list for your class?

  • What spells do you use the least?
7 Tauren Shaman
0
get holy wrath out of the rotation for single target, add something else in its place

make zealotry work with divine storm for aoe

maybe give ret an aoe finisher

change sanctity of battle, it doesn't make ret care about haste
85 Human Paladin
11695
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
Both.

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Raids.

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
All of the above.

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?
I guess the only thing for convinence would be remove duration on seals/mana cost. Also Inquisiton micro-management.,and lastly dodged/parried Holy Power generation strike giving no compensation.

What makes playing your class more fun?
The idea of freedom, alot of damage during cooldowns, the role thats mixed between healer and damager(with less emphasis on healer).

What makes playing your class less fun?
Inability to reach a target, too many procs, reliance of CDs for damage, slow holy power generation, stigma against paladins (specifically retribution paladins) denying us groups on our spec/class. Holy Wrath.

How do you feel about your “rotation”?
I hate to say clunky,but clunky. Seems unpolished,half an idea implemented. Could go faster,less % of our rotation decided by procs/cds.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
3 second Crusader Strike CD/Faster Holy Power generation. Ability to reach targets. Ability to peel(Outside of healing/Hand of Protection). Less vunerability to dispels. Zealotry allowing Divine Storm to generate 3 Holy Power. Redesign of Holy Wrath. Better haste scaling then decreasing the cooldown of CS/Divine Storm, which is only good at a breaking point.

What spells do you use the least?
Consecration, Seal of Justice, Retribution Aura.
Edited by Ragic on 9/16/2011 7:25 AM PDT
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7530
I am raiding PVE player first and foremost, I rarely, if ever, touch PVP content.

Quality of life for me is having to maintain inquisition is a hassle for both protection and retribution and mana return for both also, waiting for it to tick is a very tedious thing.

Prot is fine for me, but to make ret more fun a secondary source of holy power generation would be very nice to have. It becomes less fun when you miss an attack and get starved for holy power (mainly on fights like majordomo where you MUST attack from the front and if you get dodged or parried it's a no go).

The rotation for prot is fine but clashing cooldowns on crusader strike for ret make it annoying.

My wishlist is simple: Make Templar's Verdict and inquisition generate one holy power after use but only if using it reduces your holy power to zero. If you get a divine purpose proc however and use it that then that ability does not generate holy power. Also, remove the mana tick from judgment, return it to the wrath model of an instant mana return instead.

What spells I rarely use: Seal of Judgment.
Edited by Khayleth on 9/12/2011 9:19 AM PDT
87 Human Paladin
3160
Ret- Off spec
Prot- Main

My Biggest Concern with the pally class is Holy Power, and the lack of ability to create .

Ret
Spells that generate Holy Power
Crusader Strike or Divine Storm (4.5 sec CD)

Spells that Use Holy Power
Templar's Verdict
Inquisition (2min Cd)
Word of Glory (10sec Cd)
Im leaving out Zealotry because even though it uses it, it doesn't consume it.

Spells that are just Dmg
Judgement (8sec cd)
Exorcism ( if you can get a Proc)
Holy Wrath (15sec cd)

The main problem is I find myself standing there waiting for CS to be off of CD so I can do something... if you are lucky and get RNG you are fine, but if in some fights you dont get any RNG then you are just sitting around waiting and waiting.

Proc
Again with the RNG basically that's my only problem with Proc RNG doesn't control the class like it does in Ret but still wish we didn't have to rely on it.
Edited by Warrosa on 9/12/2011 9:50 AM PDT
85 Draenei Paladin
10895
What type of content do you focus on?
PvE

If PvE, what type of PvE?
Raid (tanking)

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?
Very few.
Severe mana issues after being battle rezzed and trying to tank, due to seal falling off.
Refreshing seal seems to be unnecessary as we already have Blessings to refresh. (I know we have it a lot better in 4.X than in the past).

What makes playing your class more fun?
Having a lot of CDs to manage. More active mitigation via Holy Shield being on-use. Ability to use Word of Glory as even another CD. Being able to use Hand of Sacrifice during a tank transition to make it go smoother.
With threat gone, proper CD use is now the mark of a good tank, and Paladins have the most CDs, and they tend to award proper use greatly.

What makes playing your class less fun?
Lack of a gap closer. I understand the need to keep the tanks feeling different, so I am not begging for a cap closer. I just know that after tanking on my "main", being able to death grip or charge just feels "fun".
No Divine Intervention :D

How do you feel about your “rotation”?
-I think the paladin tanking rotation has no "big" problems in it, and it is better now due to the Avenger's Shield proc being much more interesting than it was earlier in Cataclysm. We have a relatively strict rotation, with a proc to weave in between and the CDs of any tank. I enjoy it. I would suggest lowering damage on Shield of the Righteous and making Avenger's Shield hit like a truck. It really seems like it is our spec's defining spell and I would like to see our rotation even more focused on it
-Holy Wrath. This spell seems like it is begging to be a 1 or 2 minute, massive aoe hit/stun. Something like Eadric's Radiance in Trial of the Champion. It is an AoE spell that I am forced to use on single target that does paltry damage and takes a huge chunk of mana.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
My only wish is that whatever nerf our mastery is getting in 4.3 does not greatly affect the fun of tanking as a paladin. I am really hoping Blizzard puts in a lot of effort into making this necessary change.

What spells do you use the least?
-Consecration. This used to be the spell that defined our aoe tanking. It is basically not used anymore. Hammer of the Righteous does so much damage and Consecration does so little and takes up so much mana that it is no longer a priority even in an AoE rotation. No decent tank specs into Hallowed Ground. I would suggest lowered the damage on Hammer of the Righteous and increasing the damage of Consecration. Yes it would be "harder" to AoE tank, but anything that separates good tanks from bad tanks that does not involve gearing is a great change, I think.
-Seal of Justice, Turn Evil, Concentration Aura.
Edited by Draewind on 9/12/2011 3:31 PM PDT
90 Human Paladin
15265
■What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
These days PVE unless the enjoyment of my prefered spec is increased for PVP

■If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
25 Man raids, heroic/non heroic

■If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
N/A

■What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
The removal of the casino that Retribution is, the reliance of most of our damage on procs, and goofy mechanics associated with certain talents (SoB)

■What makes playing your class more fun?
Being competitive with other dps specs, feeling like I'm pulling my own weight to kill the monsters

■What makes playing your class less fun?
Having most of my unique utility marganlized or given to other classes/specs, low end dps making me not so competitive

■How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
Very clunky, feast or famine, gaps normaly in the rotation unless I have a proc, our primary resource generating ability is on far too long of a cooldown, filler attacks that usually are a hinderance more than a help (HoW), reliance on cooldowns to do a majority of our dps, where as our dps is sub par without them.

■What’s on your wish list for your class?
Sanctity of Battle removed with an additional Holy Power generating attack in its place...or at the very least better scaling with haste as theres actually noticable improvement in CS cooldown. More even Holy power generation.

■What spells do you use the least?
Consecration, Seal of Justice.
Edited by Paladinchaz on 9/12/2011 9:22 AM PDT
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE]

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Raids]

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas and BGs]

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters. [Probably the biggest quality of life issue I have is that we don't have a single fun option for Minor Glyphs. It doesn't have to be game-changing, but I would love to see some of them do more than save me 2 thousand mana every 30 minutes.]

What makes playing your class more fun? [I'll probably be in the minority on this one, but I actually find the proc-filled ret rotation very enjoyable. I don't miss the Wrath rotation of "beat on every button and whichever ability comes off cooldown first will be fine." I understand there's a lot of people who don't like Holy Power and procs, so I personally just hope you won't go too far in the other direction when trying to make things more fun for them.]

What makes playing your class less fun? [While not necessarily a paladin issue, so much as a melee issue, the encounter design favoring ranged so heavily definitely has an effect on the fun of the ret play style.]

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.) [As covered above, I actually really enjoy the frenetic proc-based nature of ret. I suppose it doesn't make for the most reliable DPS, so if there's a way to even out DPS while keeping the rotation engaging, I'm all for it.]

What’s on your wish list for your class? [More interesting Minor Glyphs. I know I'm harping on it, but I play the game to have fun, so little touches like actually having spells modified in a noticeable way are important to me.]

What spells do you use the least? [Consecration due to the high mana cost.]
10 Draenei Shaman
60
Sry I cannot post on my main, That account is banned from the forums for ever :(

  • What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

  • Both

  • If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

  • All of them, Mainly Hard Mode content though.

  • If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

  • Rbgs

  • What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

  • I guess If I had to pick something It would be the lack of a gap closer for Prot. Yes AS is nice, but it just does not cut it compared to grip and charge.

  • What makes playing your class more fun?

  • The survivability. The utility, I mean AM and DG are both great raid cool downs.
    The feels of the prot "rotation" is great as well now. That holy shield change has made it so I have so much control over when I take a large amount of damage and when I don't.

  • What makes playing your class less fun?

  • Nothing really, I enjoy all of it. Just a few little nitpicks mentioned lower

  • How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

  • Prot
    I feel the AoE rotation and single target rotation are great and feel exactly like they should, although like mentioned before, It would be great if Holy wrath had something to be replaced with for the single target part. Even in the AoE part it feels very week. For example I could be doing sinestra whelps and use it on 10+ whelps and it still hits for 7.5k max. That seems very low and very disappointing. But other then that It feels great over all.

    Holy
    No real rotation here, I love the play style for holy now.

  • What’s on your wish list for your class?

  • A better gap closer, and a better filler for the prot single target rotation.
    This is a stretch but maybe add a purge type ability onto are judgment for holy PvP, like a talent Rank 1 50% chance to purge a buff when judged and Rank 2 100% or even make it a 3 rank talent.
    A bigger range on divine guard again, The current range of it is sad. 30 yards is hardly anything.
    It would also be nice to have Judgment of the wise add a replen to the raid. It's great that so many other classes have it now but you can still get into a raid without one. For example, are alt run the other day had 1 paladin and no druid or Replen. So we did not have any mana regens at all. Which was fine but it was a pain near the end of the fights when people where going oom.

  • What spells do you use the least?

  • Hand of salv, I only use it on myself or the other tank if there is a tank swap early in a fight, Seems useless now.
    Seal of justice, Only time I ever use this is if I need to slow someone down in a RBG. Even then I hardly do it because there is classes that do so much better at then.
    WoG as a tank now. I only use it when I really need to of for a bubble when i am at full life about to take a big hit.
    Light of dawn, I liked it when it could be used while silenced, now I don't even bother specing into it.


    90 Dwarf Paladin
    9670
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    Both - RET spec

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Raids

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    BGs

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Having more options of stuff to do at range. Some fights are crap due to always having to be right on target but moving constantly (Shannox, Beth, Rhyolith). I don't mind chasing things, but give me something better when I can't get to the target.

    Other than that, I really don't like Inquisition. Feels like a warrior shout and I'm not a warrior. Plus, it's pretty useless for Prot.

    OH! and why are there no Ret Shoulderd in Firelands aside from the t12 piece?? qqqqqqqqq

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    Having the ability to contribute to the Raid other than just as DPS. Having Holy Radiance or a Lay on Hands at the right time is nice.

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Having to line up procs and buffs while trying to move and stay on target. I'd like to get rid of either Zealotry or Inquisition. I don't care which, but I hate having to keep an eye on both of those coupled with wings/pots/trinkets/Pet/etc.....

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    It's ok, but I don't like the occasional downtime. I sometimes sit for 3+ seconds waitng for CS to come off of CD. I'd Consecrate in that filler time if I had enough mana but it's not worth the drain. Lower consecrate's mana usage and I'd love to put it back on my hotbar.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Quoted for visibility:
    A talented or glyphed interupt CD reduction. 10 mans require a lot of interupters and it'd be nice to have a slightly faster interupt.


    Also, a non-talented WoG CD reduction. Lower the amount healed, that's fine, but I want it available more often.

    What spells do you use the least?
    Aside from cleansing:

    Consecration and Exo/HoW.
    Edited by Jotham on 9/12/2011 9:42 AM PDT
    90 Draenei Paladin
    7230
    # What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

    I focus on PVE. The content always seems much more developed and interesting than repetitive PVP

    # If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

    I definitely have spent more time in heroics on this character. However, I recently got a spot in a raid group as a healer. I am now much more focused on Raiding and only use heroics for enchant farming or finishing up my valor for the week.


    # What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

    The only issue I run into is both a pro and con. There is a scarcity of plate gear with healing stats. I understand that this is due to only one class needing it, but it means that I must play the randomness of drops more, not a huge issue.

    What is an issue is that healing plate needs a special set of gear to do enough damage to complete current daily quests (molten front and additional quests). If I was prot, I would still have the strength and stamina to quickly swap to Ret and be able to complete quests. Additional talents to allow for some damage as holy would help me out by making me not need more gear sets.

    # What makes playing your class more fun?

    I love the versatility. I have played all 3 specs, and switching keeps my class fun. I also enjoy the great gear design (I love plate dresses). Also I am one of the few that currently enjoy ret. I love the big hits I can get, and the feeling of using magic in melee.

    # What makes playing your class less fun?

    I wish the healing setup could be more customized so I could view fights more than green bars.

    # How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    I feel that my rotation is not very set. Healers get more of a chance at spell selection rather than priority. I do find though that I rarely get to use holy light. It just doesn't heal enough unless it crits. I love the beacon mechanism though, and paladin healing is in general, very fun, albeit requiring getting used to slow heals.

    # What’s on your wish list for your class?

    More plate dresses
    Ability to do damage in Holy gear
    more aoe healing options
    more minor glyph options


    # What spells do you use the least?

    flash of light
    consecration
    seal of justice
    holy wrath
    90 Tauren Paladin
    13310
    - What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    ---> PvE

    - If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    ---> Raids

    - What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    ---> Since I play a Protection Paladin, the biggest quality-of-life improvement would be the threat hotfix as of late (the censure hotfix also seemed to increase threat and damage output, or maybe I'm crazy if it wasn't applied for Protection too!). The Holy Power system is good, but I feel much more could be done with it to strengthen the system.

    Oh, and a shoutout to the person(s) who made the decision to make Righteous Fury persist through death. You're the best.

    - What makes playing your class more fun?
    ---> The wide variety of utility that I can bring to a raid environment. I love being able to spot heal if necessary, use Holy Radiance or Hand of Sacrifice to assist others, and the theorycrafting necessary to maximize my effectiveness at Protection for heroic modes.

    - What makes playing your class less fun?
    ---> The tacked on implementation of several Paladin functions such as the Holy Power system (as I stated eariler, it's not that I dislike it -- it's that much MORE could be done with it than currently is. Some of which was discussed by Ghostcrawler in his tanking blog which sounds exciting) and Holy Shield. Both of these seem to be addressed in future patches which has me wanting to hear more about the changes. :)

    - How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    ---> The rotation is fine bar some of the choices we have as Protection and it's throughput. To absolutely maximize our rotation (as detailed on maintankadin) we require more mana sustainability than our Judgements of the Wise and Sanctuary can provide; it just is not sustainable in the long run. While I do not know if this is true, I feel like Protection Warriors have much more ability to sustain their own rotation. This does bring more difference between the two and honestly makes me enjoy my Protection Warrior a lot, but it becomes frustrating when tanking alongside one.

    Overall though, I'm happy with it. My request would be that Inquisition gets more use as Protection to bring it into our toolset more frequently.

    - What’s on your wish list for your class?
    ---> As mentioned above, I would love for Inquisition to get more love in Protection. Whether it is a duration increase with a damage decrease compared to now (say, make it twice the duration with half the damage bonus) or some other change, as it is now hard to get it rolling and then get in a Shield of the Righteous. If we get parried we do not generate the Holy Power necessary within the duration.

    Don't get me wrong, I use the move in Protection for AoE and single target, but I feel like it could be better utilized like Holy Shield. :)

    However, I feel like this should be mentioned to get it out there! Would it be possible to get minor glyphs as a Paladin to increase the duration of our seals? We have ones which reduce the mana cost, but ultimately that's not an issue nowadays -- increasing the duration would definitely be a quality of life improvement for those of us who activate it and forget (plus it would line up the duration with Kings and Might, so we rebuff all at once instead of intermittently). A major glyph that decreases the mana cost of Hammer of the Righteous like the current Crusader Strike one would be very welcomed too. :)

    - What spells do you use the least?
    ---> As Protection? Very, very few moves. I find they all have purpose as it stands and give us the utility I enjoy in a class.


    Thanks for the opportunity, Nethaera!
    Edited by Masanori on 9/12/2011 9:42 AM PDT
    85 Human Paladin
    9745
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    Both

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Both / Other – Soloing old world content

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    BGs

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    I hate to say it but our Holy Power system is my biggest issue. Everything just feels slow, to generate holy power is slow and random. It feels to constricted and uncontrolled, you don’t have the freedom that you once had with the paladin class. To make up for it, it seems like you added a lot of proc’s and RNG to the class so you have something else to do while you wait for those 3 holy power to generate.

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    The paladin class is unique, it’s a plate hybrid. I’m one of those people that love’s the freedom of being able to heal / tank / dps depending on the situation.

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    The holy power system makes me not enjoy my paladin. It’s slow, random, and just feels like a rushed idea someone threw in at the last minute.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    [Ret] – Slow, clunky and too much RNG. It needs better holy power generation and less RNG and reliance on procs / cool downs.
    [Holy] – Needs something else to use Holy power on
    [Prot] – More of a need for hit / expertise (My paladin in his prot gear has 0% hit/1% expertise and tanks raids/heroics just fine)

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Paladin Snare
    Sacred Shield to return as our Level 80 baseline ability again.
    Bring back Judgement of Light and Wisdom (Make judgement worth using again, other than a damage filler and haste proc)
    Repentance needs a lower cool down
    Seal of Justice to be useful
    Not so reliant on cool downs
    Being able to use Divine Storm again, other than just for AE.
    No more Holy Power.

    What spells do you use the least?
    Seal of Justice
    Ret/Concentration Aura
    Consencrate (Way too much mana)
    Edited by Saavis on 9/13/2011 5:47 PM PDT
    90 Dwarf Paladin
    11895
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PVE

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Heroics and normal mode raids.

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    The occasional battleground or tol barad(but not competitively)

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Being required to pick up items not designed for my role in order to maximize my potential(using the protection 4 piece tier 11 bonus as retribution pre-pull to get more uptime on GoAK.)

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    The ability to turn around a fight that is moving toward disaster with one of my cooldowns(like lay on hands on the tank if he's about to die)

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Feeling like I must have every single button and cooldown available at all times, and I have a lot of them.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    Because haste has been relatively devalued, my rotation has dead time in it. It's a dps loss to use more than one 'filler' in between crusader strikes, and yet, there's about half a global of time after the filler is used that i have to wait before i can crusader strike again. It's a minor concern though.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    I would like to see the various secondary stats reach a level of relative equality. If each stat is extremely close in value to each other, then choosing one or another would be a personal choice, and not the 'wrong choice'. Thus, you could see mastery ret paladins, haste ret paladins, crit ret paladins, in pve, and not feel like they were gimping themselves by doing anything other than mastery.

    What spells do you use the least?
    Consecration, Hand of Sacrifice, Turn Evil, Seal of Justice
    85 Blood Elf Paladin
    6500
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    pve

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    heroics, used to raid, but havnt had the time to do so this expansion (college)
    also, i play retribution

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    I guess losing a TV to refreshing inq every 30-od seconds, not that big an issue, but having something akin to the assassination rogues "cut to the chase" could go a long way towards improving dps, also (as mentioned above), removing the duration from seals could be nice (tho not 100% necesary)

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    well, for me, I'v always liked the concept of a holy warrior so simply having the option to play that roll is fun to me (just seeing the wings pop up and a holy angel by my side in a fight brings a lot of chills XD), aside from that I liked the idea of some ppl doing better do to the buffs I brought (and was ever so slightly saddened to see some of them go away in cat)

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    the stigma... no one wants a ret... everyone pressuring you to change to holy or prot, also, it feels that the rotations were ever so slightly incomplete, with the difference between single and aoe still minimal
    also, no longer having a reliable slowing utility like with judgment of justice (i know we still have it in the seal, but its very inconvenient to have to switch seals and wait the global cooldown to then be able to slow the add)

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    I like the overlying concept for the rotation (3 cs and a finisher), but i dont like the feel of the fillers, reason being that they ONLY feel like fillers, it would be nice if there was more synergy between the attacks used in a rotation (sort of how judgment increases our overall haste, or like how judgment and AS work for prot), to that end, holy wrath and consecrate sorta feel less interesting to use (and even feel punishing sometime in single target scenarios when there's nothing else to use). Id recomend converting consecrate into an aoe finisher and making holy wrath a purely aoe move (and replace its position in the single target rotation with something that's actually single target)

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    more synergy between attacks, make them feel less like things we throw to fill in holes and more like extra attacks that make our other attacks shine (basically, make me feel exited to use the fillers), also, getting some raid buffs back would be nice

    What spells do you use the least?
    seal of justice, turn evil (not enough undead/demons out there),
    85 Human Paladin
    7400
    ■What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    -Both

    ■If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    -All

    ■If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    -Arena/BGs

    ■What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    The overall feel of dealing damage feels slow and for lack of a better word the oft used "clunky"

    ■What makes playing your class more fun?
    -While under the effects of Heroism/Bloodlust my spec plays great, my rotation flows alot better and dealing damage feel fluid and fun. I enjoy the lore and overall feel of the entire class/spec. Its fun to have some very powerfull cooldowns.

    ■What makes playing your class less fun?
    -Relating to my last response, when those buffs are gone, my spec feels sluggish and slow to respond. While having said cooldowns makes my class feel powerfull, the ones that really matter in a PvP envionment are trivialized by dispells, often times they are removed before I can gain any beneifit from them at all, this is very frustrating.
    ■How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    -My rotation feels slow and interupted at times by conflicting class mechanics, I, like very many other Ret Paladins very much dislike having Holy Wrath in my single target rotation, while it does provide a chance at HoL proc, the ability feels completely out of place. I would much rather have Divine Storm back in the rotation as a filler, the ability would need to be changed ofcourse, something along the lines of "Divine Storm deals 100% more damage to targets affected by your Censure 5 stack"

    ■What’s on your wish list for your class?
    -For both aspects of the the game a fluid rotation, and a genuine snare.

    ■What spells do you use the least?
    -In order, Flash Heal(To costly for my spec), Holy Radiance(Much to costly for my spec) Seal of Justice(swapping seals, in PvP can prove to be more costly, than the effect of the seal.)
    Edited by Thundar on 9/13/2011 3:17 PM PDT
    85 Human Paladin
    13570
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    Both

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Raids

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

    Rated BGs/ BGs

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

    A large quality-of-life improvement to paladins would honestly be less management of inquisition, and less rng within the retribution spec. Also during ret pvp, a large quality of life would be being able to keep inquisition up passively rather than having to use 3 holy power on inquisition vs. using it for a TV which lowers our burst overall. For holy however, a great quality-of-life improvement would be to extend our capacity of AoE healing since we always seem meager at best when we try. (Holy Radiance costs too much mana vs healing done)

    What makes playing your class more fun?

    I have loved and will always love healing. What makes this class fun to heal on is the sheer ability to turret healing while also providing utility to the raid/rbg team.

    What makes playing your class less fun?

    For holy? Nothing. For ret? Too much RNG in our FCFS rotation.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    For holy, I feel that there could be some more utility in AoE healing scenarios as Light of Dawn doesn't apply to many situations in fights where people are spread out and Holy Radiance is as stated before, meager at best unless combined with Divine Favor/Avenging Wrath/Int-Trinket (or proc).

    For Retribution, I feel that the FCFS rotation is somewhat fun, but is overall too clunky. It relies on too many rng procs of Hand of Light to get anywhere and you sometimes are doing nothing while waiting for spells to come off of CD. It feels that you spend too much time ramping up to get to worthwhile spells such as TV or 3 HP for Zealotry/Inquisition.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    I wish that our class could have more utility in raid healing and have more of a buff towards Holy Radiance and a reduction in mana cost. For Retribution, I feel that we need more of a better gap closer than Long Arm of the Law, and that we also need to have our Avenging Wrath non-dispellable in PvP situations. I do think that you could compromise this with allowing it to be spellstolen, but not dispelled. One last thing that I would want is just for retribution to have less downtime in waiting for spells to come off of cooldown and less ramp up time to inquisition (i.e. make a passive damage buff spell that you use before the fight).

    What spells do you use the least?

    Out of all the spells in our arsenal for Holy, I would feel that I use Holy Radiance too little. Part of it may be my personal healing style, but I feel that the healing/mana cost ratio just isn't up to par and isn't worth spending that much mana to cast it.

    Out of all the spells in our arsenal for Retribution, I would feel that I use any of the healing spells too little. If our dps spec is meant to be a hybrid, we should have the utility to survive well and help others survive. Relying on a 3 HP Word of Glory just doesn't cut it all the time when we are put in those situations, Flash of Light and Holy Radiance costs ultimately too much mana to be able to properly factor into our usefulness.

    Ultimately, retribution's least used spell comes down to Consecration. This has an unimaginably too high damage/mana cost ratio when it comes for single target dps, but ends up having to be used when we are sitting there waiting for all of our other spells to come off of CD or we didn't get a Hand of Light proc for a free TV.

    90 Human Paladin
    8720
    Hello! Speaking as a very experienced Holy Paladin, I hope to give you some great feedback. You might know me from http://www.youtube.com/sacredheals where you'll see I specialize in Holy Paladin PvP. :) Let's get into the questions...

    What type of content do you focus on?

    -PvP only.

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

    -I compete in high ranked Arenas (only 3v3) and Rated Battlegrounds.

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

    -Other than being mana burn spammed, I can't think of any simple annoyances for holy paladins. One quality-of-life issue is that our holy power is only being used on one ability and one ability only.. Word of Glory... (As a side note, Light of Dawn is useless for Holy Paladins in PvP; Nobody specs into it so that's not an option.) There's no choice for using holy power at all.

    For retribution, ONLY using Templars Verdict with 3 holy power is kind of obnoxious. It feels weird to do great damage with 3 holy power, but completely insignificant damage if Templars Verdict is used with 1 or 2 HP.

    What makes playing your class more fun?

    -We have recently been given the Speed of Light increase when Divine Protection is used, as well as when Holy Radiance is used. Because of this, holy paladins can now move faster a LOT of the time. Hand of Freedom + Speed of Light = a fun holy paladin. :)

    -Other than speed utility, Holy Paladins have been given tons of strong heals. However, we lack "pre-emptive" healing, such as an ability like Power Word: Shield. That shield can be used to pre-emptively heal a target when the priest knows damage is coming. When a holy Paladin knows damage is coming, his only option is to wait for that damage to come, then heal. If the paladin pre-emptively casts a Divine Light or Flash of Light, he simply opens himself up to get a hard Spell Lock / Counterspell, etc.

    What makes playing your class less fun?

    -Speaking as an arena player, in high rated games, if I don't play perfectly, I'll sit in a full duration polymorph, fear, blind, sap. Basically, sitting in CC chains lasting 20+ seconds while my teammate is getting destroyed. It's not fun. We have hand of sacrifice to "pre-emptively" break crowd control, however in high end arenas.. that ability simply gets dispelled immediately.

    -Bottom line, sitting in chain CC's is not fun and hand of sacrifice is unreliable.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    -Currently Holy Paladins have a very fun rotation. However, when holy shock doesn't crit, we are at a HUGE disadvantage. We have to manually cast a flash of light to heal our teammate, which opens us up for massive spell interrupts.

    -It feels great to holy shock crit --> .9 Second Divine Light (from the Infusion of Light proc), then do a 2x or 3x holy power Word of Glory. However, it doesn't feel right that Divine Light is NEVER being used without an Infusion of Light proc. In PvP, you simply will NEVER be able to cast a full 2.5 second Divine Light. It just doesn't happen. So what we're left with is spamming holy shock / word of glory (when they're available) and spamming flash of light. This feels very limited.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    -More consistent pre-emptive healing. More offensive utility other than one stun every minute. Using exorcism (with the Denounce talent) was recently given to holy paladins. However, again, this simply just opens ourselves up for getting a hard spell lockout. In current arena matches, one 7 second hard counterspell (7 second lockout) usually means game over... The burst is too high now.

    What spells do you use the least?

    -Holy Light is never used in arena unless I'm out of mana completely. The games end so quickly, there's currently no sense to save mana. The fights are over in < 2 minutes.

    -Inquisition is also a useless Holy Paladin spell. An interesting idea/suggestion: Make Inquisition with 3 Holy Power increase the duration of Hammer of Justice. This would give it some purpose with a cost (3 holy power).

    -Light of Dawn (our 41 point Holy Talent) is so bad, and so ineffective in PvP, that no one even spec's into it. This spell is used 0% of the time.. Why Light of Dawn my teammates for 3k when I can do a word of glory and crit my low-health teammate for 32k?


    Anyway, thanks for reading! I really do feel like I represent Holy Paladins in PvP, as that's where I'm coming from. I'll see you on the battlefield!
    Edited by Sacredheals on 9/12/2011 6:09 PM PDT
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