Class Feedback – Paladin

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85 Blood Elf Paladin
6175
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

My primary focus as of Cataclysm is PvE, considering the changes to Retribution concerning PvP my taste for it has gone stale.

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

I've always been into raiding ever since I leveled this toon on Aerie Peak (US) enjoying the challenge and reward it brings, usually going 3-5 heroic bosses per patch.

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

When I did PvP (wrath) my primary focus was BGs and Arenas. Currently I find funneling all the PvP'ers into RBGs quite rude to say the least.

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?

The awful amount of RNG reliance our spec currently has and the uselessness of haste for Ret. paladins. In wrath is was all about critical and haste, since the introduction of mastery stat balancing has been unstable.

What makes playing your class more fun?

The reason I started playing a paladin in WotLK was because after seeing so many fury warriors, combat rogues and deathknights in raids I wanted to play a more "fun" melee class with big crits and awesome animations (a.k.a. divine storm+consecration). Being one of the top dps on Heroic Saurfang really felt like an accomplishment when most of the other dps up there with me were mages, warlocks, combat rogues and fury warriors. The big crits are still there though and they make my class a whole lot more fun to play currently.

What makes playing your class less fun?

>.> R.N.G. and the constant reapplication of inquisition. Getting 4 Huge T.V.s in a row can be awesome, but pulling sub 20k dps because of bad R.N.G. extinguishes all fun especially when you're guild focuses their attention on your performance. Also Retribution Aura being pointless (while having my spec's name in it) is painful.

How do you feel about your “rotation”?

In all honesty I really don't mind the rotation except for maybe two things; having to keep inquisition up which is a real hassle and holy wrath being a really, really bad filler. Also crusader strike could have its cooldown reduced to 3 seconds (but that would make us basically only press 2 fillers ever) or maybe a 3.5 second cooldown.

What’s on your wish list for your class?

Now for the good stuff. First off as a suggested change to aura's in general for ret, put a talent deep in the retribution tree that makes it so once inquisition is applied once as long as the retribution paladin is in combat and has an aura up it does not need to be reapplied. This effectively maintains a "ramp-up" time that has become iconic (I guess) to our class and also does not completely ruin Ret. PvP by making them OP. If that seems too easy of a way to solve that problem then I offer another solution; make it so that whatever filler takes the place of holy wrath (if one does that is) extends the duration of inquisition by 5 or so seconds making its sub-par damage somewhat worth it in terms of dps management, also allowing us to stop T.V. clipping (when you're inquisition has 3 seconds left and you only have 2 HP, you go for the crusader strike for the T.V. but lose the 30% damage increase to Hand of Light because inquisition falls off right as you hit T.V. :( . Also as a proposed change to Divine Storm (yes I miss its animation too) make it take the place of holy wrath, still generating 1 holy power if it hits 4 or more targets but, BUT take it off the GCD with crusader strike, effectively making it a filler and an AoE go to like it used to be giving paladins that flair back. One last suggestion which would add more RNG to our class but give us back our consecration would be to make it so that art of war can allow a free consecration to be dropped, but that would need some changes made to the talent, though completely worth it. One last suggestion in response to moving Hammer of Wrath's damage to other abilities would be another R.N.G. based ability (hopefully that can replace some removed R.N.G. involved in HP generation and rotational fillers) that gives consecration ticks that do damage to a target a chance to proc a Hammer of Wrath making consecration that much more important on boss fights and in PvP making your target eat consecration that much more important. This effectively allows you to nerf the damage on Hammer of Wrath itself and move it to other abilities such as Judgment or Holy Wrath etc. considering PvE ret. will be getting a lot more Hammers off during a fight and PvP rets will get the sustained damage they need, not just the "AMGCDSBIGCRITSWIN" button they have now.

What spells do you use the least?

Consecration.
Edited by Valgus on 9/12/2011 11:58 AM PDT
85 Dwarf Paladin
11575
continued from 31717227532


Having to sit healers. Even if I'm not the one being sat out, this is still incredibly... boring, unfun, frustrating, depressing, etc. This wouldn't be too big of an issue if say 4 out of 5 encounters required 7 healers and the fifth one could be done with 6 or 7. But since ICC, the trend has been to sit out as many healers as possible and still meet the healing check and then stack as much DPS as possible.

This is usually done because of how a specific encounter is designed and because of healer balance. If 2 Druids can do 3 Shamans' jobs, why would a raid bring 3 Shamans instead of the Druids if bringing the 2 Druids opens up a DPS slot? And if a fight can be comfortably healed with 4 healers, why bring 7? The issue is compounded by the fact that some encounters can actually be healed by 3-4 healers while some others require 6 to 7 healers. So what happens to the healers that sit out? They get bored with the game, they get burned out, they stop playing, they roll a DPS alt so that they can raid and not be useless to their guild because the class they decided to play 6½ years ago is underpowered compared to the flavor of the month healer by a significant margin.


Raid cooldowns. There's no thought required to use them anymore. You simply pop one whenever the big yellow letters flash across your screen telling you that the boss is using the big bad AoE ability that'll hurt the raid a lot. Right now a guild gets to an encounter, figures out when they need to use raid cooldowns and then tailor their raid to meet the encounter's raid cooldown requirements. You bring as many as you can and woe to your spec and class if you don't have a raid cooldown (or if your cooldown doesn't work for a given encounter); your guild can and will try replace you with another spec that can fill your role AND bring said cooldown to the table. Like I've said before, it creates an arms race of a sort - a raid cooldown escalation - where a spec without a raid cooldown is far less desirable than a spec with a raid cooldown. Which leads to specs being sat out, which leads to class stacking, which leads to the specs being sat out getting a raid cooldown, etc.

Let me be un-tactful: how long until Holy Priests have their Divine Hymn buffed to be on par with Tranquility so they stop being sat and how long until Diving Guardian gets nerfed, or failing that how long until the other 3 tank classes get a raid cooldown to match Prot Paladins? How long until Ret Paladins get a raid cooldown to match Rallying Cry and AMZ? How long until Ele Shamans can a raid healing cooldown to match Moonkin Tranq and Shadow Priest Divine Hymn?


How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

The recent buff to Word of Glory makes Holy Power management more important. Other than that, there's no real rotation.



What’s on your wish list for your class?

40 yard range for Hand spells. Not having to use Judgement - an offensive ability - in order to heal. Raid healing tools that would let me be competitive with Prayer of Healing, Wild Growth and Rejuv spam. Being able to kill players I outgear and outskill significantly in a 1v1 PvP setting so I could go have fun in BGs as a healer every now and then.


What spells do you use the least?
Flash of Light. I've casted it about 20 times since Cataclysm's release. More than two thirds of those casts were accidental or on Ragnaros progress.
Edited by Zaroua on 9/12/2011 11:23 AM PDT
90 Dwarf Paladin
19110
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
Both played as Retribution

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
10 man normal raids

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
all

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
Without procs our ramp up time seems very long before we can actually start doing some damage.

What makes playing your class more fun?
Our incredible burst with CDs out or with lucky procs the dmg and play style just flows better

What makes playing your class less fun?
Relying on procs too much or losing out on holy power due to missing getting parried or dodged. Our self healing feels weak because of the CD to WoG and our casted heals are too long to be effective. Also the lack of a real gap closer or slow can feel very painful at times, especially since the classes we try to catch have faster speed increases when they teleport or jump away. Having most of our buffs being dispellable.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
I like it but it can feel clunky at times so I would love to see the CD on CS reduced and for some of our fillers to feel more powerful than wet noodle attacks between CS and TV. I also hate that holy wrath is used as a filler since it's so weak and is an AoE attack that does really low single and AoE damage. Losing Holy Power because of CS missing or getting parried/dodged is just aweful.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
A real gap closer, a slow, separate GCD for our seals and for our auras. Our holy light having a faster cast time after getting a KB so we can actually use the 300% buff from it. Some ability to control our GoAK so it doesn't feel like he is the worst guardian ever and the reason all the Ancient Kings are dead.

What spells do you use the least?
Consecration because of the huge mana cost. Retribution Aura
Edited by Rakzul on 9/12/2011 11:27 AM PDT
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2725
Retribution:

What type of content do you focus on?
PVE

If PvE, what type of PvE?
Heroics/Raids

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
Being able to move JUST the default Holy Power bar where ever we want for better placement, unless we can already do that and I just missed it.

What makes playing your class more fun?
I enjoy Paladins mainly because they are hybrids allowing me to jump between multiple roles. I like the idea of a class being based around holy as well.

What makes playing your class less fun?
As of right now, Retributions rotation is what makes this class less fun for me.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

I really dislike Retributions rotation as of right now. The dependency on procs is very disheartening to me and a near gamebreaker for the entire class.

I also don't enjoy the moments I end up with a excruciating downtime with nothing left to cast.

That and the difficulty I experience trying to juggle all of our CD's. In order for a maximum dps we have to consistenty use our CD's throughout pulls but they have to be used at the right time in order to maintain any kind of increase in DPS which definetly makes our rotation more difficult and hard to master. I still have an extremely difficult time managing our CD's and in turn my DPS always falls short in an average Dungeon group.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
I'd really like as someone else stated to have Holy Wrath removed from our single target rotation and replaced with something else. Maybe a new move of some sort to replace it that could also help reduce our sometimes long downtimes.

I know many Ret's who don't mind our CD's but I really don't enjoy being required to time my CD's specifically. It's not that I mind having to use them through pulls (something new to me my only other dps is a Shadow Priest) its just the fact I have to time them and use them in the right order. It all ends up feeling more like a chore then something thats fun. If I don't use everything in the right order suddenly my DPS will fall - not what I call enjoyable.

That and way less reliance on procs would be nice. Very nice. I could deal with CD and downtime if we could just get rid of Retributions reliance on procs. I don't enjoy it at all knowing Im trying my best to pull out as much dps as I can but yet it fails to show in the meters because in the last few pulls Art of War and Divine Purpose failed to proc 90% of the time. Its even more infuriating on the next pull to watch Art of War and Divine Purpose proc 5 times in one single pull. Ive had Divine Purpose proc 3 times in a row while practicing on a dummy before and then the usual times when nothing procs for minutes on end.
Its not consistent enough, its too random. DPS should reflect the player and their average skill. It should not reflect "Hey I got lucky! Art of War and Divine purpose proc'd a lot". If you insist on keeping the procs, at least make our overall DPS higher and proc's affect our DPS less. As of right now, more procs = higher, way higher dps. Less procs = lower DPS. Procs shouldn't be like that. My shadow priest can maintain consistent dps no matter if shadow orbs proc or not. Ours should be no different.

However just removing the procs or lowering their effect on our dps won't be enough. You've seen the numbers, our DPS isn't on par with other classes. Its going to take a fair amount of change to fix this. I have hope that you can lead this class in the right direction though and bring back my love for ret.

What spells do you use the least?
Consecration as ret and Divine Storm. Its been shown that replacing Divine Storm with Crusader Strike is only beneficial when there are at least 5 enemies present making it pretty useless most of the time and a dps loss.
Edited by Revmeplz on 9/12/2011 11:22 AM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13030
  • What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]


  • Mostly PvE content, Love the story based stuff.

  • If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]


  • Heroics, Raids, Dalies and Achievment hunting.

  • If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]


  • I do like to go to AV every now and then, its the only BG I can do and feal usefull. I'm a Prot Pally and all the other BGs i have been in dont Suport the Spec as well as AV.

  • What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.


  • The biggest thing i have a problem with is if durring a boss encounter or other event, and something happens that I either have to heal myself or want to heal another real quick to maybe prevent a total wipe, I'm a 3 pump chump. The mana pool for prot is so small that if I throw out a couple heals (im a pally, why can't I right?) im conpleetly drained of mana and the heals are not even that good.

  • What makes playing your class more fun?


  • For me, I do like being the one up front protecting my group. I also love to try to conqor oldder content Solo. i love the thrill of figuring out that i can kill content I never got to run when it was Relivent and New.

  • What makes playing your class less fun?


  • The Cooldown on the Heal Provided by Holy Power. Befor the cooldown was in, I used to throw out a helphull heal to my groups when we were starting heroics to help in a bad situation. Some times i might need to not use my other abilities if it ment keeping a player alive long enought to recover the fight or prevent a wipe. now with the cooldown, If i use it once, it not there if something bad happens in the interum.

  • How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)


  • What about adding Exorcism in as an option to throw in the rotation versus Holy Wrath? Prot never uses Exorcsim in any fight. but what if we had it to where if we were single targeting a mob we woult be useing things like Exocisim and Crusader Strike, and for AoE tanking, Hammer of Righteous and Holy Wrath. Haveing the option i think would be nice for a spell that never gets used by tanks.

  • What’s on your wish list for your class?


  • Stop stop stop it with the Plate Dresses for tanks... Its plate armor, why is there a dress? I have hated this about my class ever since the first dress was introduced. healing pallies i can see, but im a tank, it looks silly.

  • What spells do you use the least?
  • [/ul][/quote]

    Seal of Justice. I have never used it. theres no reason for it in Prot, never understood why it was there.
    Edited by Corenack on 9/12/2011 11:28 AM PDT
    85 Dwarf Paladin
    5430
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    99% PvE- Ret

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Raids and Heroics

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    Rarely PvP since Cata dropped, tried arena a few times lately and I feel the ramp up time is too long and by the time I'm able to actually output substantial damage on a target, they are out of range and our only gap closer (Pursuit of Justice I think its called?) doesn't work while slowed (which is a lot in arenas).

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    When I first hit 85 trying to manage mana and HP was a nightmare. Nowadays mana is a non issue for me except when I pop all my CDs when Heroism is up. HP is still an issue imo as it takes too long to acquire and I feel like TV is weaker than CS.
    Please bring back DI, I miss that feeling of saving the tank or a healer for some reason.

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    Wings. They are so effing cool looking it should be illegal. Too bad they don't last longer.

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Too proc-based. And the nerf to self healing hurts too. While I agree it was too strong in Wrath, its basically non existent now and I miss that dungeon, or even raid saving utility, that I once enjoyed. The most exciting times in WoW I've ever had have been in dungeons and raids when everyone dies but the tank, me and maybe a dps, and I try to keep them alive just long enough to finish off the boss while all the dead players watch =P. It really gets my heart racing.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    Clunky, spotty, and wishy-washy. I don't mind procs but they make for really unreliable dps if you go long streches without procs and have no other buttons to push. I understand that a proc is a proc and only has a chance to happen, but I still feel that ret could use a slight adjustment in that department. That being said I feel that the proc rate with Exo (Act of War I think), is perfect for the damage it outputs, please leave that alone.

    P.S. Holy Wrath hits non-combat critters in range, they don't deserve that lol and I don't feel i should be dps'ing the squirrels of Azeroth when I have more important things to throw my dps at. Like, I don't know, the big ugly monster in front of me trying to pound my face in and use my skull as a soup bowl?


    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    I want to use Divine Storm again cause it looks too coll not to use.
    A new animation for CS because the current one is lackluster imo.
    Shoulders, for real I've had these 346's for too long. Also, less dresses on the tier gear, if I wanted to wear a robe/dress, I would play my Holy Priest.

    What spells do you use the least?
    Turn evil, concecration, Seal of justice, Divine Storm (Although I use it slightly more now that it generates HP in large grps).
    90 Human Paladin
    11985
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    Both

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Raiding (DPS)

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    Arenas and regular BG's mostly, because no one allows ret paladins in their RBG's

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Having to watch inquisition constantly and readjusting my rotation to accommodate a reapplication

    What makes playing your class more fun?

    being able to do good dps while being able to support my allies through offhealing/Hand of Freedom, and cleansing
    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Being little to no way of reaching an opponent because they are able to apply a snare that has little to no diminishing returns

    having to rely on a holy power system in pvp when it is very difficult if not impossible at times to generate holy power when your opponent is just out of reach or melee due to server lag time

    having Word of Glory only mitigate damage rather than healing it when used on myself against an opponent who can do 30% of my health in 2 moves (and being almost impossible to use due a lack of HP generation in pvp)

    having to be reliant on one spell (TV) to do 1/3 of my dps on my rotation, making my other spells feel useless and ineffective

    having to rely on popping all of my Cooldowns at once in order to do only respectable dps

    Having people laugh at me for choosing to be retribution in pvp instead of holy

    having my only source of holy power generation be parried and the majority of my dps being heavily proc dependent (Divine Purpose)

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    My rotation feels too clunky in pvp scenarios, there is little to no room for inquisition in the heat of battle

    there are too many "fillers" where the majority of my Holy Power generation comes from pure luck rather than hitting my target with Crusader Strike. On top of this, relying on Templars verdict to do my primary damage makes all of my other abilities feel entirely lackluster and pointless

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    a snare to prevent my enemies from escaping my wrath

    mitigation that increases my survivability that is not tied to the holy power system

    heals that are effective on myself and not just others that are not tied to the holy power system

    stronger spells that make me feel like all of my abilities have their purpose, and not something that i just spit at my enemy until my crusader strike comes off cooldown

    the combination of seal of justice's effect into the effect of judgement, and possibly causing it to snare the target by 20% movement speed.

    What spells do you use the least?

    holy wrath, i only use it when every other ability is exhausted, and thats only for the chance at Divine Purpose. Otherwise, it is very ineffective in single target and AoE.

    flash of light, or any other healing spell, they give little to no healing for such a costly amount of mana, especially for such a long cast time

    Seal of Justice, the spell is almost useless for any reason other than slowing someone down on a mount, and it is rare where it is even effective against someone with a speed enhancement since it needs a melee swing to even affect the target

    Retribution aura, this aura has become almost completely obsolete due to its lack of recoil damage against targets who strike the paladin. Not only does this ONLY apply to melee damage, it also provides little to no benefit as it only does less than 1% of a targets health at all times. I would rather keep up devotion aura against a melee just for extra mitigation than to try and ward off an opponent with Ret aura.
    Edited by Lothaeryn on 9/12/2011 1:48 PM PDT
    85 Human Paladin
    8025
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PvE
    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Raids and Heroics
    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    BG's
    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    I think having to keep Inquisition up is the most difficult thing for a Ret Pally to do. I don't know what a solution for the problem could be, but I have a difficult time checking my buffs for INQ when it is just 1 of 10 or more in the heat of battle.
    What makes playing your class more fun?
    I like having the flexibility of going back and forth between Holy and Ret in raids. It gives our raid comp some wiggle room if we need another healer or DPS.
    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Having to keep up Inquisition for max DPS.
    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    I like the Ret DPS priority system (because it is not much of a rotation) minus Inquisition.
    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Try making the Ret "Rotation" less clunky and maybe a little more fluid. I see other classes have very simple rotations where most of the rotation can be put into a few macros. This bugs me because I'm working hard to keep up INQ, using CD's, and managing attacks with Divine Favor popping up all while dealing with lag and GCD with my very poor computer, and you have other classes pressing a few buttons for their rotation.
    What spells do you use the least?
    Turn Evil.

    Edit (9/25/11): One thing I would like to add is that the amount of armor I have to carry it a bit ridiculous. I have 2 specs and I have to carry 4 armor sets because 2 are for pvp and 2 are for pve. Is there something we can do about this?
    Edited by Donquixoté on 9/25/2011 10:55 PM PDT
    85 Draenei Paladin
    6140
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PVE on Holy and Ret

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Heroic and soon Raiding

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    None

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    I like the fact that even in any spec, you have spells to help your raid or group as protecting, making damage, pulling, this makes you a very useful player if you know what you are doing.

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    Holy: This spec is amazing, it gives you a great manage on mana with a useful CD that make you more effective. You have a correct number of spells to be cast.

    Ret: This spec has amazing CD for a single target pull like bosses, nice group/raid helping spells like Repentance and hands.

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Holy: Mastery is not what I would expect to be, because it only helps you for a minimum, leaving to heal almost every damage a player takes. With only AoE, on some fights it gives you a very hard time.

    Ret: Holy power makes you lack of ideas and creates a fixed rotation that depends too much on CD/Procs. It could be almost build on one button macro, and expect it to work all the time. Sometimes you can be left behind the group when the fights need more movility, like Zanzil on Zul'Gurub.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    Holy: Holy has great rotation. That's it

    Ret: It feels a little premade and on some ocations, unpredictable, with the abuse of the Procs waiting situation.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    A way to Holy Power a bit more useful on both specs. Only two spells benefits from it is not quite enough. Another AoE Healing and Finishing move for ret.

    What spells do you use the least?
    - Light of Dawn
    - Seal of Justice
    - Turn Evil
    - Consecration
    90 Human Paladin
    9125
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PvP

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    N/A

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    Arena, BGs

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    hour long buffs without reagents

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    the burst in pvp

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    the lack ov control in pvp

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    i think you should increase the duration ov the 3 point inquisition so i can chain wings to zeal without having to reapply inquisition. and maybe add a pvp asset to the rotation. like back in tbc our judgements did double damage to stunned targets. things like that. bad for pve but great for pvp.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    a good snare, a 3 holy power addition to divine plea like in prot but for ret as well and holy i guess. the pvp 4 piece be changed to 60% reduced disarm like warriors. re-do sanctity ov battle talent. take cleanse off the gcd so that its not a complete rotation wrecker in pvp and arena when freedom is used for peels. do something different with mastery. maybe give righteous fury a ret arena application. give us judgements that do different things back, like if we want the chance to heal on hit then that or mana or justice again instead ov seals with it that are useless for ret. make the stacking str increase from guardian of ancient kings stack faster so we can utilize it at maximum for zeal longer. take the auras off ov the gcd. maybe give hammer ov wrath a 6 second dot that does like 10,20,40% ov the initial damage over 6 seconds. like the exorcism glyph. take inquisition off ov the gcd to utilize zealotry to its fullest potential. or a glyph of zealotry - increases the duration ov it for 5 seconds or increases dmg done while its active.

    What spells do you use the least?
    consecration, holy wrath, seal of insight, seal ov justice, righteous defense
    Edited by Bostonbird on 9/17/2011 11:06 AM PDT
    85 Human Paladin
    8915
    ■What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    Both :)

    ■If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    All! :)

    ■If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    All! :D
    ■What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters. Eh, i didlike having to rely on Holy power, and the decision between inq and TV, and choosing CS over DS on fights where its 3 and less, is kind of sad now :/ because DS was such a cool looking move! and now that it shares a CD with CS, thats just...well no bueno(not good). as well as stigma against my spec. thats a HUGE QoL issue, lol, no1 likes me :( not even my guild hahahah :p

    ■What makes playing your class more fun?
    Knowing that im a Warrior that can heal himsefl #swag...but being plate geared, and the lore behind my class, and what heroes have been paladins so far, and who to look up to RP wise, its pretty cool, and knowing that a Paladin is the one you want on your side when you go against anybody
    ■What makes playing your class less fun?
    Stigggmmaaa :/ as well as relying heavily on procs/CDs/RNG, and a word used very often, lol, clunky! hahah, and it is very slow moving, at the beginning of Cata, Ret was semi fun and was twisted, but as each patch comes we become the bottom of the totem pole :/

    ■How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.) I dont really like it, too much fillers, and the moves (CS and TV) look the same, i mean if your a holy warrior, should your moves look holy, at least glow yellow? instead of me jumping and swinging every.single.time.


    ■What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Divine storm not to share a CD with crusader strike or anything else, and everything is pretty much unrealistic: less reliance on RNG/procs/CD and stop giving us dresses to run around in raiding! uggkk dress tier=nastyyy haha

    ■What spells do you use the least?
    consecrate(too much mana, and it looks cool! and it is a shame that many of our paladin brothers dont use it due to mana) and seal of justice
    85 Blood Elf Paladin
    0
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

    Ret PvP

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

    Mostly RBGs with some Arenas

    What makes playing your class less fun?

    Damage is heavily cooldown dependent and even when played perfectly it can be very frustrating to have your damage completely mitigated by spellsteal/dispels.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    Ret rotation is clunky to say the least. People complained about the faceroll rotation in Wrath, but at least it made sense and didn't have awkward moments of downtime.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    1. More streamlined rotation
    2. Less bursty, more consistent damage

    What spells do you use the least?

    Because there is downtime in the rotation, I use just about every skill. You have to use every skill to even have a chance at being competitive as ret.
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    12925
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    I focus mostly on PvE contents, less on PvP.

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    I typically do Heroics, but Raids when I have time.

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    If I were to PvP, I typically do BGs.

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    The quality-of-life improvement for Retribution Paladin would probably to lower the reliance on procs and add an additional spell (melee) to use as a filler, something that does not reset the swing timer, while waiting on the cooldowns of the main abilities. Making Crusader Strike on base 3 second cooldown.

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    The abilities that made my class more fun to play is the fact that our Judgement spell, when used 20 yards away from the target, makes us run faster. Guardian of Ancient Kings is quite fun to use for damage boost.

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Sanctity of Battle haste effect. We (Retribution Paladins) reforge away from haste so it becomes rendered useless. We have to rely on the procs along with long cooldowns for our damaging abilities. And the nerf we've had at the beginning of Cataclysm. I knew something was off when that nerf was settled in 4.0.3 patch (Pre-Cataclysm Expansion patch).

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    The rotation is fine, in my opinion, but I feel we could use a filler move while we are waiting for our main abilities cooldowns.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    One more filler ability
    Change Sanctity of Battle's haste into something else like crit.



    What spells do you use the least?
    I use Turn Evil, Seal of Justice, and Righteous Defense the very least, almost to the point that I never use them. I don't even use Righteous Defense at all when I am tanking.
    87 Tauren Paladin
    11895
    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Give back DI (divine interruption)
    90 Human Paladin
    17750
    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
  • What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]


  • Both

  • If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]


  • Raiding - 25 man mid-level progression. Almost exclusively as prot as of late, did raid occasionally as ret in WRath.

  • If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]


  • BGs (ret), Rated BGs (occasionally, prot)

  • What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.


  • Inconvenience (i.e. taking a GCD) of seal-swapping when it is generally something that needs to be done on the fly. Seal of Justice being absolutely useless in almost every reasonable circumstance. General feel of the ret rotation.

  • What makes playing your class more fun?


  • Group utility as a prot

  • What makes playing your class less fun?


  • Prot: PvP compared to every other tank spec is a mess. Blizzard has stated not every spec will be pvp viable yet every other tank spec is superior as a FC and has a niche. We have...Avenger's Shield to annoy casters before we get overwhelmed.

    Ret: Nature of the rotation, inclusion of AoE attacks (hi Holy Wrath) in our single-target rotation despite this being against a stated design goal. Feeling like success in PvP is more dependent on whether I have CDs up and how good/bad the other team/player is than my own skill. Stigma against taking me as a ret to organized PvP (which is why I "get" to go as prot)

  • How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)


  • Prot is fine I guess, will mostly depend on how active mitigation is implemented.

    Ret is "clunky" - not fun sitting around at times, especially in PvP. Too dependent on CDs/procs

  • What’s on your wish list for your class?


  • More consistency with ret pvp and the general rotation. A better idea of what active mitigation means.

  • What spells do you use the least?


  • Seal of Justice? Basically all of our non-WoG heals other than an occasional Holy Light from Crusade procs (Which is still so slow and underwhelming).
    Edited by Lesaberisa on 9/12/2011 11:23 AM PDT
    85 Blood Elf Paladin
    10785
    I'm a ret paladin mainspec, with a prot offspec. My main concerns are regarding Ret.

    What type of content do you focus on?
    PVE
    If PvE, what type of PvE?
    Primary focus is raiding progression.
    If PvP, what type of PvP?
    I don't typically PVP. If Ret or Prot gets an advantage I will dabble in it. I don't like to heal and that's always the preferred spec for Paladin. Seems like shooting yourself in the foot to bother with PVP as any other spec.
    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?
    Being reliant on procs I suppose. Often times it doesn't feel like my contribution to my damage matters as much as whether or not I get procs. The recent hotfix shows me you are already aware of this.
    What makes playing your class more fun?
    Wielding large two-handed weapons and seeing the high-damage hits that come from swinging it.
    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Putting forth 110% but still being unable to surpass certain classes because of bad RNG on procs or because that class just has a higher damage potential.
    How do you feel about your “rotation”?
    When procs come in regularly the rotation is pretty fun. Challenging enough to separate the good players from the bad, but not unbearable. Without procs it becomes painful, especially when forced to use consecration in order to fill a GCD which then can cause mana problems throughout the rest of the fight. An improvement I'd suggest is to take out the mechanic of haste reducing Crusader Strike's cooldown and just setting it at 3s. The prot rotation is smoother than ret and CS is a big part of that. Also, if you look at the Fury warrior rotation they fill every-other global cooldown with Bloodthirst. To do anything else is a DPS loss, but it also serves to ensure their rotation is 'smoother'. Retribution currently puts two fillers in between every Crusader strike because the haste required get CS to 3 seconds isn't realistically attainable in this tier. Also I think CS could hit a little harder so it feels more like a main strike (bloodthirst) and less like a filler. The same goes for Judgement, which hits like a wet noodle. I also wish Holy Wrath wasn't part of the normal rotation.
    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Less RNG, more PEW PEW. Seriously, though I would like to see less reliance on Hand of Light and Exorcism procs. CAVEAT: I don't want all of our damage rolled into dots (See: Censure hotfix) I understand that damage-over-time is the easiest way to increase overall damage without worrying about impacting PVP, but the reason I swing a two-handed weapon is to see big numbers. If all I see is a medium-sized number and a bunch of little numbers ticking off... Well I might as well be an affliction lock or a feral druid. There are already several classes based around damage-over-time. 'Holy' DOTs don't make it any more interesting/new.
    What spells do you use the least?
    I assume this question is regarding spells actually tailored to my spec. I don't spec into Selfless Healer and rarely use WOG in a raid environment except to save my own life. The tradeoff isn't worth the benefit. Maybe it's more useful in 10-man. I rarely use consecration, except when RNG-bad-procs force me to. Also Lay On Hands is now more of a liability to use as a Ret paladin (except on yourself). I am always afraid if I use it to help save a tank it will mess up one of my paladin healers or the paladin tank because of the new forbearance mechanic. I don't want to LOH them when I think they need it, only to have a healer unable to use it as an 'oh-sh*' button 30 seconds later and have the tank die. I save it for myself when i'm Ret, and rarely use it at all when i'm Prot (unless we organized specific times for everyones LOH in the boss strat, Example: Chimaeron). Seal of Justice is also pretty useless, too much of a pain to seal-swap for it.
    Edited by Zealot on 9/12/2011 11:40 AM PDT
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    11865
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    Both.

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Heroics/Raids

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    Battlegrounds

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    One of the biggest reasons, in my opinion, for a group to bring a paladin back in the day was for their awesome utilities, and I feel that as time rolls on those utilities are becoming less and less useful in that area. I just don't feel like I'm playing a Paladin sometimes too, and I don't think a combo point mechanic made that at all better. (I know you hate to hear "homogenization", so I'll stop right there...)

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    The fact that we are capable of doing pretty much anything, if the situation calls for it. Regardless of what spec I'm in, I can throw out heals, bubbles, buffs, taunts, etc. It's awesome having that kind of freedom in a game, and I don't think any other class in the game can do it as well as Paladins can.

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Combo points. There's nothing as awful as "now would be a GREAT time to hit a big attack, while the enemy is down and... oh I only have two Holy Power points, nevermind then."

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    It needs work, badly. I feel like every other combo point class in the game right now, not a holy warrior wielding the power of the Light in pursuit of justice. Give us more ways to dish out divine retribution that isn't crippled by needing 3HP to not hit like a wet noodle.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Better offensive attacks to replace crap like Holy Wrath and Consecration in the Ret rotation. You don't see Frost DKs using Blood Boil, do you? Ret shouldn't have to use a terrible attack as filler just because there are no better options.

    Prot is in a better place, but I agree with the move towards active mitigation, as long as it's done in moderation. Having defensive bonuses trigger from the way you manage your offensive abilities would make playing Prot much more exciting.

    I'd also like to see a reworking of the Guardian spell for all three specs, none of the current behavior is terribly exciting. Also, re-work the cooldowns on it, especially for Ret.

    What spells do you use the least?
    Most of the Hand spells get tossed out on the rare occasion they are useful, but the threat one should really get changed, given that we're moving away from that mechanic. I also think Prot should have a way of using Exorcism as part of the overall rotation, it's a cool spell that is unique to paladins and all three specs should get to use it more often, in some capacity.
    5 Human Hunter
    0
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PvE (Prot)

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    PvE raids mostly. Some hm raids.

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    Bg's when I do PvP

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?
    Aoe snap threat. On Lord Rhyo for example, its hard for me to get aggro on the adds right away unless I have inquisition up. Over all I feel we lack the same aoe threat ablities other classes have or that ours is so weak.

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    Being able to survive through near impossible odds.

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Having to get snap aoe threat on spread out mobs being near impossible.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”?
    It is nice. Id like it to be able to output more damage like other tanks can.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    To be more able to get snap aoe aggro and have the same damage output abilities as any other tank class. So far I see us at the low end of the stick.

    What spells do you use the least?
    Any healing spell / inquisition unless I have to tank aoe. At which point its a must, but still doesn't quite get the job done.
    Edited by Orihe on 9/12/2011 11:38 AM PDT
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    10750
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PVE

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Heroics

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Having to use holy wrath single target during luls. Less downtime in ret.

    What makes playing your class more fun?

    What makes playing your class less fun?

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    There are periodic times of down time. Also would like crusader strike and divine storm to have a 4 second cooldown in ret so we can value haste a little more.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    4 second or less crusader strike and divine storm as ret. An attack that shares a cooldown with holy wrath that does more single target damage then holy wrath.

    What spells do you use the least?
    Concecration
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