Class Feedback – Paladin

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90 Human Paladin
9950
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

Casually both.

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

5 man heroics. Casual raiding, if that.

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

BGs

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

Holy power is a stupid mechanic. I liked my paladin tank in Wrath. I hate it in Cataclysm.

It wasn't broke. Thanks for breaking it.


What makes playing your class more fun?

How about giving me back my bubblehearth? This isn't a troll - that was actually fun for me.

What makes playing your class less fun?

Holy power. Non-passive Ardent Defender. Everything you did to the class since Wrath.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

Holy shield as part of the rotation was fine, and was fun. Holy power for shield slam is not fun. Holy power sucks. Are we getting this yet?

What’s on your wish list for your class?

It was fine in Wrath. Give me that back.

What spells do you use the least?

Word of Glory. The heal is weak and almost useless on a prot paladin it seems. I honestly get sick of watching my holy power to see if it's "ok" to use my shield slam or not. God, this mechanic stinks.
Edited by Devout on 9/12/2011 10:46 AM PDT
85 Human Paladin
10100
--What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

PvE

--If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

Raids

--If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

(BGs)

--What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

Not sure if this belongs here but I wish PvE and PvP could be a bit more separate. I enjoy both facets of the game but I don't like that PvE changes adversely affects PvP and vice versa. I would rather see Ability X do one thing in PvE and have it do the same thing but adjusted damage in PvP or somesuch.

--What makes playing your class more fun?

I enjoy being defensive support. Sure I can do damage but I make my allies more dangerous.

--What makes playing your class less fun?

The fact that I have Divine Shield as a "Staple Ability" means everything I can do is automatically less potent than any other DPS'er.

--How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

Love it. It's not the same order of operations over and over, yet there is a rhythm to it.

--What’s on your wish list for your class?

Please remove Divine Shield.

Please introduce another type of choice on which I can spend Holy Power. A mandatory DPS buff ability, a small instant heal, and my main DPS attack are not the most interesting of choices. Perhaps a groupwide damage buff or defensive trick.

--What spells do you use the least?

Hand of Salvation, Seal of Justice, Retribution Aura.
86 Human Paladin
14575
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
PvE

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Raids

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
When i do Rated BGs

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
Lack of Mobility, Yes we have freedom, but i have both a paladin and a warrior tank, and getting to the target as a warrior is exponentially easier, im not expecting to have as much mobility, but maybe tack on the speed boost to holy radiance for Protection paladins as well.

What makes playing your class more fun?
The wind variety of utility paladins have, being able to use holy radiance to heal the raid even though as prot it heals like bandaids :) .

What makes playing your class less fun?
Making all the encounters centered around tank mobility, and having none.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
Uh, it works, but it feels a bit slow at times when im just waiting for things to come off of cooldown if i dont proc avenger shield much. Its moved from the start of this expansion when used my holy power for nothing more than WoG after the first few attacks to just using shield of the righteous. And since WoG got its 20 sec cooldown, i feel like it became more of a defensive cooldown than something to add variety to the rotation.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
A speed boost on cooldown to help me reach my target. I miss all my aoe :(

What spells do you use the least?
Inquisition (when prot), Any blessing (having more than one paladin now means i never buff anything), Righteous defense, and now probably Word of glory since it has such a long cool down i have ended up removing all talents that include it.

Also Ardent defender, i get that you don't want things to be automatic, but when you use the ability when you think you're going to die and then the holy pally you've got healing uses LoH and makes the ability feel completely wasted, its really frustrating. At least when it was a proc i never felt like it was wasted, my healers could plan around it, if they were getting behind and really needed the time to catch up they could let me "die" and then just heal me to full. But nowadays i just feel like its an extra button to push that almost never actually gets consumed. At least with the priest version even though it wont absorb a hit more that like 200k, there is at least a passive effect to it that increases healing taken, so even if the didn't let you die mechanic isn't used on it, you still didn't completely waste it, it helped you top off the target.
Edited by Seraali on 9/12/2011 10:48 AM PDT
90 Human Paladin
7060
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
PvE healing

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Raids

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
Seal timers. Why not make it like righteous fury or fel armor?

What makes playing your class more fun?
I like the fact we're pretty good mobile healers. Lots of cooldowns that can make or break certain situations
What makes playing your class less fun?
We're such a reactive class. We can't predict a big hit on a tank and we have throttle our heals. Would be nice to have something like a priest bubble or earth shield

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
Not sure how to answer this since I'm talking about healing and healing doesn't have to do with a certain order.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
A better mastery for one. It just didn't feel very thought out and it's hardly noticeable in raids. Maybe another aura or two. Better prempetive healing, less reactive. Inquisition is useless for holy pallies, but maybe it's for a reason idk.

What spells do you use the least?
consecration, holy wrath, exorcism, flash of light, inquistion
90 Tauren Paladin
14155
# What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

Both.

# If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

Raids/Heroics.

# If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

BG's.

# What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

Perhaps seals being off the GCD, not requiring mana, or infinite duration.

# What makes playing your class more fun?

Invoking fear and terror into my enemies with CD's, Long Arm of The Law, Multiple hard hitting attacks. Just being a hybrid hard hitting monster with a bit of off-healing.

# What makes playing your class less fun?

Chasing someone around because freedom is on CD/dispelled/spellstolen and Long Arm of the Law isn't significant enough. The heavy reliance on both CD usage and Divine Purpose procs to be effective, Repentance CD in PvE. Consecration.

# How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

It doesn't work well, there's either too many situations where you have a lot of top priority skills to press at the same time, or situations where you are left swinging for a second or so waiting for Crusader Strike to be off CD. When all the random procs do happen it's fun, but otherwise it's incredibly boring and it feels like Holy Wrath is there simply because something has to be.

# What’s on your wish list for your class?

Holy Wrath change. Repentence CD in PvE situations. Seals off the GCD. Crusader Strike either having its CD lower or gaining a more significant benefit from haste. Changing proc and CD reliance to a more consistent DPS "rotation". Seal of Justice change. Consecration change. Oh and if I can dream, Divine Leap! (Heroic Leap is just too fun for 1 class!)

# What spells do you use the least?

Consecration. Seal of Justice.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13730
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
Ever since I've started playing this character, I've focused on PvE.

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Currently, I mostly do Heroics and Daily Questing, but I'm an on-again / off-again raider. I was a hard-core raider during The Burning Crusade (burned out during Sunwell), as well as during Trial of the Crusader and into ICC (I was a Heroic-Mode Raider during both patches). I haven't gotten back into raiding during Cataclysm.

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

Um, having to reapply seals ... oh wait.
Let's see, needing to carry around a jillion reagents for buffs ... oh wait.
Um, needing to drink after every pull ... oh wait.

I really can't think of one for this. If there's a class that's gotten many of quality of life improvements over the years, it's Paladin. I'm sure other people will think of things that I haven't, however. It's just all really insignificant to me with those big three having been fixed.

What makes playing your class more fun?
Personally, I simply love tanking. I like corralling enemies, I like being 'in control' of the fights, so to speak. Regardless of what anyone says, I've was a hard-core Paladin tank during the Burning Crusade; I remember what our rotation was like then. Paladin tanking is infinitely more fun now than it was back then; I like having buttons that matter and our damage not being passive.

What makes playing your class less fun?
Well, this isn't really Blizzard's fault, but tanks in general can occasionally get bad raps from other players in dungeons. That can really dissuade me from pressing that magical "que for instance" button some days. In terms of actually playing a Paladin tank, there is one thing that I find super unfun and I've personally been posting against it since it was implemented into the game back in Cataclysm; the Inquisition spell. I'm not sure who came up with this spell, but forcing it on Paladin tanks was a terrible idea. Inquisition uses a Paladin's resources to activate a passive ability. A passive damage boost, no less. It is extremely boring; you barely see your numbers rise when you activate Inquisition. I personally hate pushing that button and would prefer to see "Blinding Shield" from the Cataclysm Beta return as a new AoE attack (assuming the long-term plan is to keep Paladin threat tied to Holy Power).

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
Like I said, I'm a little biased on this one because I was a tank back in The Burning Crusade and in Wrath. Therefore, I LOVE our rotation now compared to what it used to be. My only comment is that it's a little dull to only have one attack that generates Holy Power as a tank; it would be more interesting if we had two or three attacks that shared a cooldown, but each had a special "twist" or something to make them unique. For example, you could have Crusader's Strike, which smacks a target hard for threat and generates Holy Power, Hammer of the Righteous, which smacks a bunch of targets for threat and generates Holy Power, and Shield of Righteousness, which does a bit of damage and activates a second effect (maybe either some damage reflection like back in the old days or perhaps it buffs your next Holy Shield or something) before going on a short cooldown. I think that if classes are going to get similar abilities and resources (say, Warrior to Paladin), then they need to have radically different ways of using those abilities compared to one another. I.E., a Warrior should be using their Shield Slam in different ways and for different reasons then a Paladin.
90 Human Paladin
4190
Relative newbie - transitioning from trial to Full - 1st character over 40. Ret Pal 62
Please copy the below questions into your reply and answer each one.

What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
So far, a mix between traditional questing, dungeons and some BGs. As you level faster than quests in zones more of the latter two higher level I go.
If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Dungeons, World quests - Would like to see a raid.
If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
BGs but after level 30 very disheartening as I need countless blows to down someone but I go down in a hit or two. I expect people in heavy armor to resist more than someone in cloth/leather.
What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
The class does not play as expected it isn't an armored warrior. It is quite a flimsy warrior. I spend too much time watching cooldowns/buttons to see which are lighting up and if lit up I can use it and not the game/what is going on. I do not want to use add-ons to tell me what to do like I am an automoton. Too many powers with no scaling (big heal gets bigger or big heal gets slightly faster). Instead of a big heal and quick heal I have several gained over time so I have to track three/four powers, same for other aspects. Too many "misc" stuff - 4 separate help others from mobs stuff even though tanking is so easy now to keep the game attention mechanic. Others can run circles around me and still down me but If I run circles around them need a third hand to click to use powers.
What makes playing your class more fun?
The ideal - Holy Knight. Wield big weapons. Healing self/others.
What makes playing your class less fun?
I have to keep my eyes on buttons and hit the flashing one/one(s). Buttons=free attacks so much more prevalent against monsters but almost never there when I need them versus quality opponents (bosses/other players). Too many useless/minimal use powers that should be covered by others (Tanking stuff for DPS/healers) - If you go with categories of classes (the big three) stick with it, don't give me useless stuff. (ex. - a don't attack him, attack me, hey you guys attack me, cant hit him unless he attacks but hes attacked before i can type dont attack) - Give me one thing. Tired of being stuck in place/running in terror. Cowards run; warriors charge or take cover.
How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
why should there be only one "true" rotation? I'm just clicking buttons half the time esp when things start lighting up - Very detrimental when the fight moves slightly away but I'm looking at flashing buttons and if I can click them yet. I don't get to use normal initiated powers than run on holy power as I take damage so quickly and HP so hard to get unless it is normal monsters that I have to keep in reserve what HP I have for instant healing else I drop like a rock.
What’s on your wish list for your class?
They act like they look - an armored basher - not a tissue paper pinpricker with moments of glory. Make TP covered people wield bazookas, armored bashers MG's, etc, etc, not Rogues who can take better than me but wield nukes too.
What spells do you use the least?
The multitude of crowd control as each has such limited use and hard to remember spur of the moment which is which. Also the "stop spellcasting" as it never works.

...and the the love of pete! - let auto-attack be AUTO-attack. When my opponent falls I cannot just rely on hitting T - often I need to select target and with numerous opponents, numerous bodies, tank(s) some of which are huge and take up a lot of screen clicking targets is impossible - for intelligent attacking. When opponent falls let auto attack continue going after next red automatically who red/engaged/in range and let me get off a few things instead of standing there like an idiot.
Edited by Torquemadan on 9/12/2011 10:54 AM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
17780
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
Both
If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Raids
If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
Arenas & Rated BGs
What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
Hammer of the Righteous sometimes feels clunky. Wish it worked more like Divine Storm where it doesn't require the primary target to be in range. It also doesn't always hit additional targets that it should (ie. Rag's molten seed adds aren't hit by it when targeting rag).
What makes playing your class more fun?
Lots of utility cooldowns that make a difference.
What makes playing your class less fun?
Ret: No way to start with holy power. Inquisition sucks up too much of our holy power (should probably refresh/extend it in a similar manner to slice and dice for mutilate rogues).
Prot: Clunky min/max'ing due to combat table coverage. Mastery should overflow similar to warriors or coverage should be less obtainable. Every gear upgrade requires lots of effort to ensure dodge+parry+block doesn't exceed cap.
Holy: Judgement of insight should scale with gear. Protector of the Innocent should scale with gear.
How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
For prot and holy I feel like they are good. For ret there are times when cooldowns are popped, you have 3 holy power, Divine purpose, and art of war; with no way to use them all. Other times you will be sitting around for 4 seconds waiting for something to come off cooldown.
What’s on your wish list for your class?
Holy:More offensive options in PvP. Denounce is fairly week and risks getting locked out.
A way to counter Unstable Affliction and/or Cyclone. They have no counters when they should. Make Protector of the Innocent and Judgement of Insight scale, characters should grow stronger rather than stay the same.
Prot: Extra mastery should convert to dodge/parry or something similar so that getting an upgrade isn't such a chore.
Ret: Possibly make art of war an automatic proc during zealotry or make it stack charges so that we can use it when time is available.
General: Make holy power charge to 3 out of combat rather than drain to 0.
What spells do you use the least?
Hand of Salvation is nearly useless now.
Holy wrath is only useful glyphed, and still uses lots of mana.
Exorcism isn't actually used as a holy or prot.
Edited by Avaral on 9/12/2011 10:46 AM PDT
90 Human Paladin
10570
  • What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

  • - Both. Prot PvE and Ret PvP.

  • If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

  • - Cleared normal Firelands and working into heroic modes now.

  • If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

  • - Arena and BGs for gearing up/getting my daily conquest.

  • What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

  • - Prot: Feels in a good place for PvE, I'm not a huge fan of the change to Holy Shield, but I've been living with it. I prefered the "passive" +10% block value.

    - Ret: Damage/pressure outside of cooldowns seems on the low side while with cooldowns popped seems almost over the top....if wings doesn't get dispelled, or we get CC'd through the duration. Our "gap closer" in Long Arm of the Law, doesn't really close the gap if our target is just running away from us, since it doesn't stack with PoJ.

  • What makes playing your class more fun?

  • - I've been playing my paladin since I first started before WSG was released. I like the idea of being able to deal damage and being able to heal myself/others if needed.

  • What makes playing your class less fun?

  • - Being reliant on RNG and on buffs that easily get stripped off without much thought. Having to spam cleanse to remove slows can drain your mana extremely quickly fighting certain classes (Rogue/Mage).

  • How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

  • - Prot: The rotation feels extremely smooth in PvE with the 3 second CD on Crusader Strike. CS -> X -> CS -> X -> CS -> finisher works really well.... as long as we don't get dodged/parried/miss. Through the AS resetting proc giving Holy Power is a really good design to help counter this which I really like.

    - Ret: In PvP having the "RNG Gods" on your side can easily win you a fight. Being able to spam TV 5+ times in a row will let you plow through someone. Yet the opposite of that is equally true, not getting any procs for extended periods of time really guts our ability to pressure the other team. Our fillers don't feel that useful, mostly just something to push until CS comes off CD or we don't have 3 Holy Power.

  • What’s on your wish list for your class?

  • - Prot: Extended range on Divine Guardian would be nice to have again. Maybe to 40 or 50 yards, as it doesn't always hit everyone when they are on the opposite side of a boss with a huge hitbox.

    - Ret: A "real" gap closer and possibly another way to generate holy power. Also doing something with Holy Wrath, not just using it to fish for Divine Purpose procs.

  • What spells do you use the least?

  • - Prot: Hand of Salvation, as the threat hotfix made it pretty much useless.

    - Ret: Holy Radiance as the mana cost is extremely high, I only use it if my healer needs lots of help. Seal of Justice as the move speed limiter really isn't worth the damage loss and only really affects druids.
    85 Goblin Death Knight
    9735
    What type of content do you focus on? PvE

    If PvE, what type of PvE? Raids

    What makes playing your class more fun? RNG

    What makes playing your class less fun? RNG

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? I like the rotation for Ret, but the refreshment of Inquisition is a little lame to me. In a raid setting, it sometimes can be very difficult to find Inq in your buff bars and refresh it reliably, without using an addon to track it.

    What’s on your wish list for your class? I would like to see Inq refreshed much like Rogues/SnD or Warriors/Lambs. I would accept it lasting less time so players would be penalized for missing the attack that would refresh it.
    85 Human Paladin
    4565

    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PvP
    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    All of them
    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?
    Low crit rating, and too long for having some burst damage, paladins right now are slow, i dont like that.

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    Incredible support i love that give me a sense of purpose, tough i'd like a away to slow someone who is attacking a friend in arenas
    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Kite, paladins are kited by most of the classes specially when a melee class like a warrior or dk kite me.
    Too many long cooldowns.
    How do you feel about your “rotation”?
    Too slow, paladins have to wait too much before hiting real hard, specially in pvp and solo at begning of cataclysm it took ages to kill mobs.
    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    heal diminishing skill
    Faster cooldowns
    More crit and consistent burst instead of a huge op nuke who is dispellable
    gap closer
    And a special one, paladins are supposed to be a bastion of courage and hope so i think the class should have more protection against fear and shadow.
    What spells do you use the least?
    Seal of insight
    consecration
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    13730
    Part 2: Sorry!

    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    #1 - I'd love to see Holy Power for Protection step away from this whole "Holy Power = Threat" model and see "Holy Power = Survivability." Like Greg mentioned in his Bloody Mitigation blog, a tank's job is to survive, just like a healer's is to heal and a DPS's is to kill stuff. Each have alternate, side roles (dispelling debuffs / interrupting attacks, etc.) but each other spec uses its Holy Power to accomplish its primary job; Retribution does damage and increases its damage with its Holy Power and Holy uses its Holy Power to heal. Protection using their Holy Power to cause Threat has always felt a little odd, and now that Threat as a major mechanic is on the wayside, that definitely needs to chance.

    #2 - Inquisition is taken out of the Protection rotation. Forever. It's a lame ability for tanks because Protection numbers never get big enough to really notice the Inquisition increase unless you're using a DPS mod or something like that.

    #3 - If we go to a model where Holy Shield becomes a Holy Power ability that requires another stat to be effective (Death Strike needs Hit / Expertise and Mastery; Savage Defense needs Crit and Mastery), PLEASE don't tie Holy Shield to Hit. Tie it to Expertise; it's so much less clunkier; Expertise has always measured how good someone was at moving through an enemy's defenses, so why shouldn't Expertise measure how good someone is at keeping those defenses up as well? "I hit your weapon with my shield!" just sounds silly.

    What spells do you use the least?
    Obvious spells that don't involve my spec aside (Holy Light / Flash of Light / etc), I'd say that award goes to Hand of Salvation spells. I never could find the time to use it while being pummeled on before, but in a world where threat does really matter as much, it's a fairly useless ability.
    - World of Warcraft
    87 Tauren Paladin
    10570
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    I currently focus on PVP exclusively, however I have played both over the years. My PVP credentials: Im a 2X High Warlord (old and new both as ret), former Gladiator (as ret!), and currently have Hero of the Horde from S9 RBG's (yep, ret again lol).

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    N/A.

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    I primary focus on rated BG's, although i do some arena as well. I play as Ret and Prot (I know you never woulda guessed! =D )

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    I cant really think of any possible QOL improvements for paladins right now, possibly making it so seals stay on when you die? But that doesnt seem like the kinda thing you would do with a limited duration buff.

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    Sentimental attachment, my pally has been my main since vanilla. Ability wise I would say Zealotry is a great ability for the current model of ret, having some burst holy power generation is very helpful.

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Being kited, having avenging wrath purged a split second after casting it in every high level pvp match, and more than anything having crusader strike dodged/parried/missed. The last one I think is the most critical fix needed for prot and ret paladins right now. Currently if our crusader strike doesnt land we dont get holy power, and CS still goes on cool-down, against classes with high dodge/parry chance such as druids this can lead to very long stretches of time with no holy power generation as many CS's in a row can fail to land. This issue is so huge because holy power is so integral to our ability to do damage AND to heal, and we have NO other means of generating it. My suggestion is that either CS still generate holy power even when it doesn't land, or the CD on CS is reset when it doesn't land.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    As many others have said Holy Wrath needs a viable replacement for our single target rotation, it just feels awkward using it. Divine storm should also have its 4 target minimum for HP generation removed, please let players decide when its appropriate to use their AOE abilities rather than forcing the choice on them. Judgement could also use a boost in damage, even if that means pulling it from other abilities, the damage judgement does currently is just disproportionately low.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    As a 6 year ret pally my number one wish for the class is a move away from the binary design philosophy it has been stuck in for so long. With so little offensive utility such as the slows and instant gap closers all other melee have (except enh shamn), and so much reliance on our burst damage to kill things what ends up happening is either we have enough burst to kill someone in an HOJ stun or we usually dont kill them at all. So we have this constant back and forth between killing people in one stun and hence being overpowered, or not killing them at all and being underpowered. Our lack of offensive utility just doesnt allow for much of a middle ground, and in my opinion thats why we keep bouncing back and forth between OP and Gimp.

    I would like to suggest that ret's burst and support abilities be nerfed/toned down, that our sustained damage be slightly increased, and that we finally be given a slow and an instant gap closer like all the other melee so we arnt so absurdly easy to peel/kite. I realize this is likely too large a design change for 4.3 but I would really love to see it in the next expansion.

    Regarding prot, my one wish for it as a BG flag carrier is that it be given a bit better better mobility and better self healing so that prot pallies can be a more viable replacement for warriors and DK's, currently a warrior FC just does everything a pally can but does it better and then some. A move to a more DK model would fit the paladin class better though I believe, with our holy nature in lore getting some good reactive healing into our rotation would be wonderful, right now our self healing is arguably the worst of any tank which is frankly baffling. I understand that Blizzard wanted the CD on WOG because given the choice between damage and self heals a tank will always choose self heals, but look at DK's, the problem was solved for them by not even making it a choice, there is no trade off there, Death Strike is their heal AND their damage. My suggestion is make it so Shield of the Righteous causes a WoG to be cast on the paladin at the same time, or otherwise heal the paladin.
    85 Human Paladin
    10635
    Main spec ret, Off Spec Prot, havent played holy since noob days in bc
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    Mainly PVE ret, but still PVP

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    25man raiding

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    Arena

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Inconsistant holy power. Sanctity of battle talent

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    Ret Amazing burst.. when procs line up
    Prot> Just beast tanks, nuff said

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Clunkyness of the rotation and holy power mechanic. When we rely on crusader strike to generate holy power and fights like domo and rag, fighting in front is way to penalising for being parried on a CS and missing holy power.. other classes get that resource back, we have to wait 2 globals to be able to generate again.

    Pal tanks are in a very nice spot at the moment, I hope nothing changes about them.
    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    ret Rotation is horrible, again, too proc reliant and if a CS gets parried then thats another 4 seconds till can generate another one. Having to use holy power to refresh inq is lame as well, Rogues have talents to refresh dots/buffs, whislt DKs get procs to refresh frost fever and only have to use blood plague once a minute to refresh another dot. at no real cost to dps.
    Protection isnt to bad, its a stable rotation, what ret lacks, with one proc which then increases HoPo generation.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    More consistant damage and rotation, not having to rely upon procs to fill gaps. Whilst its nice to see a single target burst of 50k off the pull, its rather frustrating when nothing lines up after than and you see yourself low 20k.
    Consistancy in ret dps. I would rather more sustained dmg for slightly less burst. This will also even out PVP, if you control a ret during burst, they have nothing to hurt you with, unlike warriors/rogues/dks where its constant pressure and cooldowns increase that pressure. Dispell protection against wings would be very nice!!

    Holy wrath... please remove from single target rotation. I would rather see Hammer of wrath dmg reduced but useable at all times. When the target is under 20% it can work like drain soul where it does x-amount more damage. = a reliable single target filler for rets.

    PVP> Fixing seal of justice, I would like to see the judgement of the just talent in prot also include a melee movement speed slow, so that rets can either talent for the slow, or increased healing (Sub holy tree) this effect is then refreshed when judgement is used. So many other classes have effective slows and snares but ret seems to be lacking due to "Really high burst capabilities"

    Paladin CC is something to be desired. Both our stun and repentance are instantly dispelled by all healers now.. Hex is limited to decurse, Mage sheep can be cast over and over.. Boomkin cyclone/Rogue blind cant be dispelled as well as DK pet stuns and Warrior stuns. Whilst yes probably shouldnt use them on a dps and should be on the healer, there are times where its needed to save a team mate.

    hand of salve
    This one was being thrown around forums a bit, with tank threat receiving a major buff, i rarely have to salv, can almost remove it from my bars, we might use it on the feral druid on trash, or I can use it on a tank swap fight Like rag if the other tank gets a few parries.. Perhaps it could be used in several ways depending on spec, ret could be a transfer of threat to a target, however if you are using Righteous Fury, the threat gets transferred to you. would be an on use CD say every 30 secs.

    What spells do you use the least?
    Consecretion (far to expensive, Hand of salvation (lol tank threat), seal of justice (find a dps partner who can slow enemies)


    Finally thankyou blizz for taking the time to read through these ideas. I know there is a lot of QQ from the ret community at times but there is fair reason for it, the rotation is clunky and a mess. I have 6 other 85s, and yes my ret is my main, but my DK, Rogue, Boomkin, Afflic Lock and Arc Mage(lol rotation) are all much smoother than the ret rotation. Procs in those classes add to dps, they arent relied upon to make a consistant rotation. This was the whole big issue with rets mastery in the first place, we had to gear a stat up for more procs, which wasnt justified at that gear level.
    /end wall of text
    - World of Warcraft
    87 Tauren Paladin
    10570
    Sorry the forums bugged with my initial post and gave me an error but apparently still put the post up. As a result I accidentally double posted =(

    Also im not sure how to delete this post.
    Edited by Eldacar on 9/12/2011 5:00 PM PDT
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    19730
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    I raid in a casual guild that does normal modes as well heroic modes, whenever I'm not raiding or on, I PvP with buddies mostly. However, I lean towards PvE more than PvP due to the friends that I have on that tier.

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    I do heroics occasionally to get Chaos orbs, helping others get geared up, but that's not often, but when I do raid, I raid with my 10-man casual guild that is on 2/7H.

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    Arenas (mostly 3v3) and BGs with buddies! (Don't do RBGs due to deafness)

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Minor glyphs is one small issue that every class has, we are no exception. But on a bigger issue, it would be how easy we able to be interrupted and if we are CC'd with trinket and bubble down then it's not gonna be fun. In a Raiding perspective, it's our AoE heals that requires peeps to be close together to get the full effect of it, (although with Divine Favor, it's beastly)

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    For one, it's the recent improvement to the speed of light which allows me to move extremely fast and out of danger. That helps a ton anywhere, plus the 40 second CD on Divine Protection which is cheap and awesome at the same time. On another point, it would be how strong we are in terms of support, we got so many Hands to use and they are all awesome to be used anywhere. Although Salvation would be nifty to use in PvP again. ;)

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    The possibility of someone dying because I was moving to avoid fire. (no pre-emptive heals) To elaborate on that, the only pre-fight heal we have is our mastery which takes a while to stack to our health's cap. In a PvP's perspective, we have to be very, very careful or we're screwed.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    Don't really have any rotation for Holy, just spell priority on specific targets. (ie tanks, raid) In a PvE's perspective, Divine Light mostly on tanks and low targets, Holy light on raids general, FoL is seldom used due to its efficiency. In a PvP's perspective, FoL often due to being careful around interrupts, Holy Shock is a blessing here and in PvE, could crit more often though.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Divine Intervention back (as a combat resurrection). And more Hand Spells to make supporting people more fun!

    What spells do you use the least?
    Flash of Light in PvE encounters due to its mana cost and the blatant HPS it gives and Holy light/Full cast Divine Light in PvP Encounters for interrupts and sloooow casting reasons.

    Edit: More detailed.
    Edited by Ryure on 9/12/2011 10:58 AM PDT
    85 Human Paladin
    8495
    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

    Pvp - Holy Paladins


    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]


    2v2/3v3/Rbg/Bg

    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?


    The cooldown on rebuke, I have play a Shaman who can channel CC me and counter me every 4 or 5 sec, the only way i can cast is with Aura Mastery and my Bubble. The answer could be lesser cooldown or a longer duration of the buff.


    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What makes playing your class more fun?


    Exorcism... I love the idea of don't let poeple crit for helping me to heal more efficience.

    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What makes playing your class less fun?


    Nothing to protect against Magic Class (i know the mini bubble can protect me for 40 % but i prefered 20 % of all thing). I can BoT me if any Melee Class is focusing on me, but nothing about the magic class.


    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)


    Holy Light is not usable anymore in arena. U will never cast holy light if u can cast Exorcism on a dps.
    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What’s on your wish list for your class?


    The buff we put on a person when we heal it.... it would be nice, if we would be able to stack the buff before the arena game and don't loose it when we enter..... that would be nice.

    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What spells do you use the least?


    . . . . . . . . . . . . .h o l y L i g h t . . . . . . . . . . .



    Thanks for that,

    Shepes-Zul'jin.
    90 Human Paladin
    10535
    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

    Both

    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

    All

    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

    BG's, although I would like to do RBG's and Arenas

    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

    - Timers on seals

    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What makes playing your class more fun?

    - Ability to heal/tank/dps would be the biggest for me
    - Tanking is spot on did a great job with the abilities and spells here
    - Healing is extremely close, will talk about it below

    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What makes playing your class less fun?

    Ret:
    - Some sort of healing debuff in PvP. It seems that every other melee and even some ranged classes have some type of healing debuff.
    - Gap Closer. Long arm of the law is nice, but doesn't not compare to shadow step, charge or grip.
    - A snare. We basically use three global CD's to slow someone, not to mention it doesn't slow them past 100% run speed. We have to 1.) change to seal of justice 2.) judge 3.) Change back to the original seal. If we don't change back to the original seal we lose DPS. Not only is this bad against players, but for example in a BG such as Strand of the Ancients we cannot slow the demos.
    - Inquisition. Not fun keeping it up at all and makes your ramp up time extremely long in PvP and PvE.

    Holy:
    - The only thing I can really say here is that AoE healing is spaced out. What I mean by this is we have two main AoE Heals one is on a decently long CD. The other requires 2-3 HP to even be worth it. This is a minor complaint not really upset about this at all.

    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    Ret:
    - There is downtime for this spec and is very random. Missing on a CS throws your DPS way down and then using Avenging Wrath seems extremely weird in a single target rotation.
    - Being heavily proc reliant is not very fun ether, personally I would rather be in control of that sort of DPS then hoping for a string of procs.

    Prot:
    - I enjoy it

    Holy:
    - Enjoyable

    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    - A better gap closer
    - Snare
    - A healing debuff

    09/12/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
    What spells do you use the least?

    - Turn Evil
    - Seal of Justice
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