Class Feedback – Paladin

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88 Draenei Shaman
6585
# What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

PVE, primarily.


# If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

I used to do heroics mainly, this changed to such a degree in cata that I ended up cancelling my sub for a while. This was a content design issue, not class, and raids because I have no way of learning the fights, which makes pugging impossible(regular raiding not an option), so also not class. Truthfully, I have not had much to do with cata endgame outside of normals and the first heroics once or twice, and basically no raiding on any character, thus feedback is based on how the class plays, instead of how it handles any specific content.


# If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

None, but I would be interested in world pvp.

# What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

None I can think off, but some previous QOL changes were detrimental - condensing the auras, seals and blessings was a smart move, but the reduced complexity removed some elements of fun. I wouldn't see them replaced, but feel it should be considered in future.


# What makes playing your class more fun?

Is shiny! The magic/melee mix is fun, adjusting seals/auras to match the fight is fun in the same way totems are fun, and being able to simply out last everything is fun.


# What makes playing your class less fun?

Now days, it's being a gimped warrior. I understand there is only so many ways to keep things separate but equal, but CS feels the same as MS, Sotr is the same as SS, etc. Unfortunately, the issue is now paladins are less-mobile warriors, where they feel like they should be unmovable fighters. The judge-sprint is a good idea to help with mobility, but paladins(especially prot) have traditionally brought mobs too them(Shield throw, consecrate, range taunts, etc), then beat them. Right now, they just sort of stroll up to things, which leads to a feel of "not as good" rather than "different".

Taking my charger wasn't nice, either, the Elekk looks ridiculous.

# How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

Fine? I guess? It's not fun, but it's not unfun either. I would like to see more combo-consumption like effects in ret, like eating censure stacks, or art of war procs, to change things up. I also like the idea of active mitigation that was recently spoken about, and think paladins have a lot of thematic options here. I miss holy shield, even though it was an always up thing, the idea of being responsible for my defence was nice(and lead to some interesting ideas about how to do set up the pull, which *was* fun and is missed a fair bit).


# What’s on your wish list for your class?

Return Divine Intervention.
More Seal options - Twisting in BC was fun.
More hands and blessings.
More auras.
"More" in the previous referring to new, not just variants/splits of existing. Maybe offensive ones? Redirect damage from ally to enemy could be cool(obvious pve uses ahoy).
(tank)Equip Polearms in one hand with a shield for a templar/knight feel, for tankings. No idea if this can be balanced, though.
(tank)AoE knockdown. Either a flash of light(boring) OR, the paladins spins the lance around in a circle, knocking everything over.
(tank)"set up" skills. I liked dropping conc in places I knew mobs would run, and let forward planning do the work for me.
(tank)More "magnet" abilities. AS is fun, because *I* don't move, the mob does. Warrior is mobile and goes to the mob, a paladin is static and brings the mobs to her.
(ret) Theme wise, the previous talents/abilities that gave paladins a bonus to demons/undead was cool. It would be nice to see some kind of bonus/change to gameplay vs these enemies. Doesn't have to be big, 4% was more than enough, just the idea.
(all classes) Convert some skills into a chakra like system, where you just spell a, spell b, and then spell c becomes one of a number of choices. Too many buttons is becoming an issue, and I've found it very hard to come back to a class because of it.


# What spells do you use the least?
I don't play holy, so heals with a cast time. Word of glory gets used, as does holy radiance(which makes me feel kinda smug, btw), but otherwise healing isn't done much(the ret talent is useless). Conc aura, likewise, isn't done a lot, and conc isn't either any more. Seal of justice, likewise, no use. This could just be pvp. Turn Evil was fun, and I use it when i can, but there's no real undead presence here, so I guess it needs mentioning.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6810
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

PvE as a Holy Paladin.

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Raids - Specifically the Heroic kind but at a semi-hardcore pace (a few nights a week, a few hours a night)

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
I have not been involved in PvP much at all this expansion.

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.


What makes playing your class more fun?
Things like Speed of Light and the satisfying feeling of aiming a good Light of Dawn make Holy Paladin a blast. Clutch Word of Glories on low targets are quite exciting as well. It's also quite nice to feel like you used all of your cooldowns and used them well over the course of a fight.

What makes playing your class less fun?
Feeling like healing is a rotation makes Holy Paladin a lot less fun. In general, I think the culprit for this is Holy Shock and Judgement. The class heavily incentivizes using these abilities on cooldown, and I just don't think the spells are fun enough to be something I cast so often. It only feels good to use Holy Shock while moving, because in general it's a pretty low impact spell for something with a 6 second cooldown (compared to DPS short term cooldowns that are usually more substantial attacks like Starsurge). Additionally, Judgement seems so low-impact to use as an 8 second cooldown and so often. I'd say these spells could use some more interesting effects to improve the overall feel of Holy Paladin.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

Beyond the abilities mention above (Holy Shock and Judgement), I feel like the Holy Paladin "rotation" is fantastic. That is to say - It almost never feels like a rotation. It seems like every GCD during periods of high damage I'm making a conscious choice about what to use next, and during periods of low damage I'm mostly just conserving mana. This is really good healer game play.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
1. Beacon of Light being off the GCD.
2. Holy Radiance being smarter (less over heal)
3. Judgement range being a natural 40 yards for Holy (if this mechanic really has to stay at all.)

What spells do you use the least?
Flash of Light, Exorcism, Hand of Salvation (more recently), Hand of Freedom (although it's few uses are fun), any Seal but Light, Consecration, Holy Wrath, Righteous Defense, Hand of Reckoning, Inquisition

For many of these it makes sense. Offensive abilities don't really have much place in a Holy Paladin's arsenal, but there are a few good ones (like the hands and the taunts) that might be interesting design space.
90 Human Paladin
13010
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

Both

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

High end Raiding

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

Arenas, Rated BGs

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

Quality of life issues for Retribution (In no real order):

    No secondary way of generating holy power. Each Paladin spec has 2 ways of generating holy power currently. Holy Paladins have holy shock and healing their beacon target with any spell that isn't holy light. Protection has Crusader Strike and Avenger Shield procs (which happen very often). Ret has one, and it's crusader strike. I would like to see another ability, such as judgement or Templars verdict when used with 3 HP, generate one holy power because currently it takes a very long time to get the HP needed to do the damage I am brought to do.

    Random procs - Random might seem "fun" to some, but to someone like me, who is constantly looking to min/max their character for every fight I am put in for, it's not fun at all. Divine purpose is the main culprit here. Getting 3 free holy power is a huge advantage with how sluggish ret paladins generate holy power. Being able to put up inquisition that much earlier is a significant dps increase because you are able to use the HP on damage instead of keeping a buff up.

    Inquisition - While buffing its duration by a whole 6 seconds helped out a little bit, it still doesn't last as long as it should with how slow holy power generation is. the 4pc t11 was the best tier set bonus I have ever used in this game. Why can't something like that be baseline for ret? 48 second inquisitions were amazing and it allowed for us to use 1hp Inquisition to start our rotation that much sooner. If something like this isn't in the cards, perhaps a way of keeping inquisition rolling like a mutilate rogue has with cut to the chase. This would go a very long in keeping retribution dps up to par without having to tweak numbers too much.

    Sanctity of Battle - While this talent was very good when 4.0 was first released, it was quickly discovered that the amount of haste to get a 3 second crusader strike was an impossible feat to accomplish in any amount of gear no matter what tier. This idea was (and still is) good, just the fact that the amount of haste is absolutely absurd and no one will ever come close to getting it close to 3 seconds baseline in pve gear. Protection just has a 3 second crusader strike. Why can't ret have a 3 second Crusader strike as well (or have haste actually be meaningful towards this talent).

    Divine Storm - Can we just unlink this from Crusader Strike already? It was an awesome ability in Wrath, now it sees seldom use in Firelands and It makes me a little sad because it was an ability that gave the paladin class some individuality.


What makes playing your class more fun?

    It's playstyle and how it works into a raiding roster, and the fact that I enjoy the paladin class very much. It's different than other melee classes. I've played my paladin since TBC, I don't really want to abandon it.


What makes playing your class less fun?

    Heavy Reliance on RNG in order to do good damage in PvE

    Avoided Crusader Strikes not resetting the cooldown/generating holy power. Warriors don't lose rage if their attacks are avoided, rogues don't spend energy on avoided attacks, why are we punished for losing the dice roll against a boss or player in pvp?


How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

It's a fine rotation if you are lucky enough to get the right procs at the right time. Otherwise, it's sluggish, not rewarding, and doesn't really make me feel as if I was the result of it being good (because RNG was in my favor that pull)


What’s on your wish list for your class?

    Divine Plea generating 3 holy power for Ret - Please? This is the best thing since sliced bread as Protection.

    Inquisition duration buffed - See 4 piece Tier 11 for a good example of how to do this.

    X Ability now generates 1 holy power (Judgement, 3 HP Templar's, etc)

    Divine Storm being a part of my rotation again


What spells do you use the least?

    Consecration - Let's delete 75% of my mana bar for awful aoe damage! Yeah!

    Divine Storm - This was easily the best ability in Wrath for ret paladins and it's nothing more than a lackluster aoe ability now. Please consider unlinking it from CS and adding it back to the rotation with the ability to generate HP.

    Repentance - I don't even spec this anymore

    Holy Wrath -This procs Divine purpose and I wish it didn't.

    Seal of Justice - Come on now, did you honestly think anyone would use this after 4.0?
Edited by Xonkyo on 9/12/2011 10:59 AM PDT
85 Blood Elf Paladin
4075
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
PvE, prot/holy

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Heroics and Raids

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?
Feeling like a given thing that i do has an impact on my objective, so for prot, when i do something, it protects (which is why dps rotations for tanks aren't fun). (ideally, i'd press a button for every parry and dodge) when i heal, the health bar moves, etc.

What makes playing your class more fun?
unique utility. the throughput and cd's of holy are Fun. the raid walls, cd's and anything with flashy lights and wings is fun. being able to HoP, Lay on Hands. feeling like i'm connected to Paladin Lore. i'm not just a shinier warrior, thx. i like using the different auras and seals. i especially like that with threat less of an issue, i can use insight and gain a little healing.
holywrath stuns are awesome. i use it as both holy and prot.

What makes playing your class less fun?
thinking i might have to cap hit or expertise before i can even think about survival stats. Low quality of life. frustration. happy in a cata era where this doesn't happen.

How do you feel about your “rotation”?
the Holy rotation is awesome. the way word of glory interacts with the other heals is just plain fun, the cd's are good. AoE is pretty meh, though, because it's so expensive.
the Prot rotation is.. sufficient.. i don't know how to make it better without turning pallies into DK's (not good), but it isn't as fun in terms of holy power expenditure. the cd's are are great, but as far as holy power, when WoG is on cd i feel impotent.

What’s on your wish list for your class?
Lance mainhands for prot. 2 handed books for Holy, or more book off-hands. i think this makes more sense than shields. at least make some more interesting off-hands, like rosaries or something.
Blood Elf Paladins should get white light from their eyes instead of green if they're using holy power instead of fel energies for their magic needs.

What spells do you use the least?
turn undead - but i feel like that's more suited for pvp or questing. exorcism (same)
88 Tauren Paladin
9420
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
PvE.

If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
Heroics, Raids, Questing, chasing achievements and vanity items.

If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
N/A

What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
As protection....Hammer of the Righteous having such a short range and a facing requirement. It's obnoxious when I need snap aggro on some loose adds and it won't fire off because I'm out of range/facing the wrong way.

As ret....Inquisition. Specifically, having to refresh this buff quite frequently although I suppose I wouldn't have much to do otherwise. It's still obnoxious.

What makes playing your class more fun?
Smacking things in the face with a big, honking weapon fueled by the power of light. Being able to solo old content. Having the option to do more than just damage.....things like being able to Hand of Prot a squishy or Lay on Hands at a critical moment, and just generally provide a little utility and support now and then.

What makes playing your class less fun?
Feeling like my damage is not competitive. Not having enough fun abilities to use.

How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
Not really fond of using Holy Wrath as filler when everything else is on cooldown.

Going into a fight I like to burn my first holy power asap and pray Divine Purpose procs so I can quickly get Inquisition up. Sometimes I'm sitting there twiddling my thumbs and waiting for stuff to proc. Sometimes stuff procs like crazy. Sometimes it gets so crazy I end up wasting zealotry or avenging wrath because I can't fit everything in. I'd like a smoother, more consistent approach. Any chance of making our proc system work more like sword and board does for warriors?

What’s on your wish list for your class?
Battle rez! Also, spell reflect and heroic leap. And shockwave. Yea I know. I should've rolled a warrior. Plus, I'm not sure how I'd fit more keybinds in.

What spells do you use the least?
Seal of Justice, Hand of Sacrifice, Turn Evil.
90 Human Paladin
13040
What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

  • PVE


  • If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

  • Raids


  • What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

  • Holy power in ret just seems clunky. For the most part, any movement-heavy fight will break the rythm of ret and it suffers a pretty large dps drop. And more generally, holy power seems less like a resource and more like a delay since you're penalized for using it before it's full.

  • Ret also seems to run out of mana really fast if you're not keeping the mana refill spell on cooldown.

  • Prot can run out of mana if facing multiple waves of many mobs if using HOR to grab aggro on them.

  • If a prot tank doesn't stack hit, shield of the righteous' miss rate can be really obnoxious, especially after having built up 3 holy power for it and having no use for the word of glory heal. I have a self-imposed limit of 3 misses and I move on to just burning the holy power and getting back into my rotation.


  • What makes playing your class more fun?

  • The prot rotation.


  • What makes playing your class less fun?

  • Weak dps and proc-based ret rotation.


  • How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

  • I think prot has probably the best rotation in the game and already takes advantage of the new tanking philosophy with multiple mitigation cooldowns that can be worked into the rotation. Ret "rotation" isn't really a rotation at all and feels clunky.


  • What’s on your wish list for your class?

  • Remove holy power at least for ret or restore some semblance of a rotation that can be done on the move.

  • Perhaps a class flying mount?

  • Avenger's shield animation actually uses the player's shield.


  • What spells do you use the least?

  • Many of the "hand of" spells go unused on my bars (besides HOL). The movement spell can almost never be used and the threat decreasing spell is only useful during tank swaps. Sacrifice gets some use, but it's very rare.
  • Edited by Tychodin on 9/12/2011 11:04 AM PDT
    90 Human Paladin
    12260
    i'm going to preface this by saying that i play exclusively retribution.

    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

    both.

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

    raids.

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

    focus on rated bgs, have a 2s team to farm conquest points.

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?

    seal-swapping for utility is an aspect of the paladin class that has never really panned out. it's a cool idea but doesn't work in a game that's as fast-paced as WoW.

    What makes playing your class more fun?

    a damage-dealing system that requires situational awareness and the ability to help others with utility outside of dealing damage (defensive utility is the hallmark of a ret paladin.) the visual appeal of being a holy knight is what initially interested me and keeps me playing as a paladin.

    i do like the holy power system, and i don't mind having to manage inquisition.

    What makes playing your class less fun?

    being so cooldown-reliant for damage is a double-edged sword. in pvp it allows you kill your targets through defensive cooldowns in a way that can feel unfair from the receiving end, but the situation is fragile and if countered (by chaining cc or spellsteal or disarm) you know as a ret paladin that you won't have another opportunity to really be an offensive threat for another two minutes.

    in pve, it means your damage is incredible under cooldowns and poor otherwise, which isn't ultimately satisfying, and missing a timing or failing to have holy power when you need it can cost you large amounts of your overall dps because you've botched your 2-minute cooldowns.

    also, while having defensive cooldowns to help others is fun and differentiates ret from other melee specs, not having any offensive control options makes for a very frustrating pvp experience because of how much you rely on other players for that control. often, other players see ret paladins as a poor choice and would happily replace them in a pvp group with any other dps spec that can bring offensive control. this may just be community bias, but it does indicate that defensive utility for an offensive spec makes you less desirable as a group member.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    making haste necessary for a smooth rotation but the last choice for actually dealing optimal damage feels like a catch-22 from a player standpoint. being heavily proc-reliant means the class is a bit like pinball, and it also creates a huge spread of potential damage based solely on procs. having so much of ret's dps concentrated under cooldowns isn't ideal, especially when you realize that's where all your dps comes from.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    less reliance on cooldowns for dps (more dps outside of cooldowns, dps cooldowns not being such a jump in damage). procced abilities shouldn't cause such a huge disparity on the damage that is dealt from fight to fight, and while proccing six templar's verdicts in a row can be kind of fun, the converse of not proccing any in a stretch feels terrible. making the proc have an internal cooldown or something might help that, such that it won't be a feast-or-famine situation.

    not having holy wrath as a filler. having dead spots in your rotation where you are using an ability that does very little damage just to have something to press is unsatisfying.

    What spells do you use the least?

    the only one that i can really gripe about is consecration, since anything else i don't use has frequent use in holy or protection.
    Edited by Martana on 9/12/2011 11:03 AM PDT
    90 Human Paladin
    17085

    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PVE


    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Raiding, Heroic Five Man, Solo Questing, Older Content Solo/Tiny Group


    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Holy
    Holy power is very straightforward for healing, and word of glory has been a great addition to keeping the group alive. The only issue I have here is that the triage style of heals is simply not fun. Dropping minute heals on an ever decreasing life bar for fear that any real health restoration will obliterate my mana is more stressful than entertaining. That can be a matter of opinion, I suppose.

    Ret
    If this does not help, I apologize, but when playing this spec in any setting other than solo content, I feel as though any decision I make is wrong. I use holy power to do this, and that suffers. I use holy power to use that attack, and this suffers. It always feels like a losing situation. Again, personal opinion. Too much seems to be going on at any given time.

    Group interaction and being somewhat decent at healing is what keeps me maining a holy paladin with ret for solo/non-raid content rather than the class being a blast to play. As a dps comparison, the arms warrior rotation seems much more natural and entertaining while at the same time yielding far better results. Does this mean that ret is broken? Probably not. It more than likely means that I'm just not that great at it.


    What makes playing your class more fun?
    Survivability and lore. Also, I love healing and have been tossing warm, fluffy holy pally bombs on wounded raid groups for a very long time.


    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Holy
    Fixing group mistakes feels like one giant mistake on my end of healing. Saving the raid/group from disaster means having to deal with healing on fumes for the rest of the fight. Divine Plea/Mana Pot/Seal+Judgement feels more like a mana maintainer rather than a mana gainer. T12 2piece helps a bit.
    Whaa whaa whaa, I know.

    Ret
    Second resource system mashed in with mana and several required cooldowns on top of an attack rotation.


    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    Holy
    I know I complained about mana obliteration above, but the rotation itself, for what it does, seems fine. I just wish there was some slack somewhere, you know? Either even more bang for your buck with the various spells, or a reduction in mana cost more in line with shipping Cata.

    Ret
    Having to keep up one buff cooldown based on saving up charges while having to decide if I want to use said charges for one cooldown or another cooldown at the same time while hoping that an ability procs that might make the process less time consuming feels right clunky. Again, when I play Ret, no matter what I do I feel like I made the wrong choice.


    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Holy
    More forgiving mana results.
    Either eliminating spell plate or making it a viable choice for all specs in the class (or making it useful for another class or two altogether). I could heal by drawing upon strength, you know, for my strength is the light, not some radioactive piece of metal.

    Ret
    Fewer required cooldowns on top of the attack rotation. Passive abilities are not boring. =) I want to worry about hitting the badguys, not making sure I'm sparkly enough to do it for half the fight.
    Reliance on solely holy power or mana, not both.


    What spells do you use the least?
    Holy
    Flash of Light
    Light of Dawn (I prefer a meaty, curse laden sentence ending with a Word of Glory for my holy power expenditures)
    Hand of Freedom

    Ret
    Seal of Righteousness, I guess.
    87 Tauren Paladin
    4400
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

    PvP

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

    Random Battlegrounds

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

    It sucks not having a snare that's for sure. Enemies that want to get away from us don't have a particularly hard time doing so. Also, having to sit around either twiddling my thumbs until I get a proc or hitting Crusader Strike 3 times so I can finally do some damage kind of sucks too.

    What makes playing your class more fun?

    Big damage when everything is going right, several useful panic buttons, cool animations!

    What makes playing your class less fun?

    Having half of my abilities get spell stolen by Mages who know what they're doing, having terrible luck when it comes to procs.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    It's way more fun than it's ever been for a Ret Paladin. In BC it was a two button combo, in WotLK it was 4. Now I have several other options available to me. The unfortunate part is that unless I'm getting the procs I need I'm not doing much damage.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    Snare
    Lowered cool down on Crusader Strike
    Judgment increases speed at any range, not just outside of 15 yards
    Increased proc chance for Hand of Light
    A talent in the Ret tree that makes at least Avenging Wrath immune to dispel

    What spells do you use the least?

    Consecration - too much mana, too little damage
    Exorcism - Templar's Verdict and Hammer of Wrath take priority over this every time
    Seal of Justice - Having to actually hit the opponent to restrict their speed is hard if they're already going faster than you. It should be based on the Judgment.

    Hope this helps!
    90 Human Paladin
    6235

    # What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PvE

    # If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Raids

    # If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    None.

    # What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

    Really I have no clue anything for paladins..
    Mabey more cooldowns?
    I certainty miss the number of judgments we used to have.
    Dont really know, cant think of anything right now.

    # What makes playing your class more fun?

    This is a protection paladins point of view:
    Hm, good question.
    I love seeing myself take minimal damage on high damage phases/fights. Thats fun.
    When ever I hit big crits/heal crits on word of glory (one out of a million chance)
    The holy system definitely added flavor to the class.


    I love how hybrid we are, I love being able to switch to dps on fights if our raid needs it because the fight is one tank fight, or having to go heals because the fight is two heal fight.

    I love how paladins can almost adapt to whatever fight it is.



    # What makes playing your class less fun?
    Seeing every single one of my freaking shield of righteous parry/block. I mean seriously, I had eight streak!! It's annoying.
    What makes the paladin class...at least for tanking. Is how boring it is after doing it for 4 or 5 hours. I mean seriously I would love to see more uniqueness, more activeness.
    Right now, were just spamming crusader strike, shield of righteous. And sure the occasional
    judgment.

    Also I cant heal myself really at all, lay on hands is really my only heal.
    After you guys completely nerfed it, its basically useless.
    If you're going to nerf it, please at least buff it!

    # How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    It's alright, although I would love to see more things that are "unique" to the class.
    The holy system was a BIG step forward, but I mean besides the holy system were just snooty warriors.

    More things like the holy system, less repitiveness, more uniqueness. Less faceroll.

    # What’s on your wish list for your class?
    I would absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, love to see some kind of "Get there quick, kinda of ability" Warriors/Druids have charge, death knights have death grip. We need something like this, although I dont think you guys will ever implement this. I'm so tired of being really slow, yeah sure we have avengers shield, not enough threat in my opinion. And if they're really far away, pfft the other tank is just going to end up charging/death griping.

    # What spells do you use the least?
    Holy Wrath.
    Hands down, holy wrath.
    85 Blood Elf Paladin
    10590
    •What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PVE, not really into PVP

    •If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Raids atm, But would love more World events, something like Zombie invasions, the world events we have atm, are kinda getting old/boring

    •What makes playing your class more fun?
    Being able to keep my self healed while fighting a Mob

    •What makes playing your class less fun?
    Not being able to decide on what u want to spend ur holy points on since WOG has a cool down :(

    •How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.) Could be better, atm its all about procs and if u dont get any ur dps is low

    •What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Getting Divine Intervention back, I miss that spell.

    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    14945
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]: PvE (mainspec Ret with Holy offspec)

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other] I do a bit of everything PVE wise. I like to raid, run heroics, and quest.

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]: I rarely PvP but when I do I prefer BGs. My biggest beef with PvP is needing yet another set of gear to do it. I much preferred the classic set up where gear was gear and equally useful for both PvP and PvE.

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? Biggest current issue is Inquisition maintenance and having to use an aoe ability in the single target rotation as a filler.

    What makes playing your class more fun? Feeling that I am a useful member of the team is what I like the most. I keep hoping that I will get that feeling again.

    What makes playing your class less fun? Feeling like being in a raid is hurting rather than helping. With the current state of retribution I feel like I am a hindrance to the raid rather than a help. Raids lately have been very melee unfriendly and having retribution lag behind the other raid dps just makes it harder for a raid to justify bringing ret along :(.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.) Overall I am not happy with the current retribution rotation. It just feels wrong to need to use Holy Wrath as part of the single target rotation but it is the only thing we can use at times (especially since Concentration is so mana intensive). At least in Wrath when Divine Storm was part of the single target rotation it felt like a strong part of it rather than a button we would rather not push.

    What’s on your wish list for your class? Either having Crusader strike have a 3 second cooldown or getting a new filler single target damage ability to replace Holy Wrath on single target fights. I would also love to see a quality of life talent similar to Cut to the Chase to refresh Inquisition like the assassination talent refreshes Slice n Dice.

    Another wish would be a return to Wrath and earlier where ret and prot could help with the dispelling. I really miss being able to cleanse magical effects in ret to help the healers in situations where a magic debuff needs to be removed asap.

    I also miss the old judgement of light debuff. It seems like ret should have something like that back with it maybe being made more like the shadow priest vampiric embrace so a raid could get that effect from more than one class.

    What spells do you use the least? I basically never use Seal of Justice
    Edited by Vasala on 9/12/2011 11:06 AM PDT
    85 Worgen Rogue
    9325
    -What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    Both

    -If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    All

    -If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    All

    -What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    buffing is easier since b4, no might/wisdom and kings

    -What makes playing your class more fun?
    well im a hybrid, i get to change from dps to tank or heals if i get bored

    -What makes playing your class less fun?
    Ret is plain awful

    -How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    way too clunky and too reliant on cd's and procs, i dont mind giving up burst in exchange for more consistent damage
    by saying too clunky and too proc dependant, i can dps the same boss in 2 weeks but my dps can vary by a few thousand cos rng didnt go my way and clunky is sometimes i have nothing to do but wait for CS to come off cd after i used it cos judgement/HW is on cd and i dont have an AoW proc to use

    -What’s on your wish list for your class?
    less burst for more sustained damage
    a "SNARE" plz would very much appreciate it, give judgement same treatment liek howling blast, would help a lot of ppl who have high latency, only melee class in game with no snare we cant do damage if we cant hit the target
    up the damage on judgment, the 4set pvp bonus dont go well since it hits for quite a substantial low amount of damage
    CS to not consume the cooldown if gets dodged/parried or it misses, it just uses a gcd and u can use it again after that, dk dont lose runes, druid/rogues only lose 80% energy, only pallies gets penalised so badly
    make CS baseline 3s for ret aswell to help sustained damage

    -What spells do you use the least?
    turn evil
    seal of justice
    Edited by Soifönn on 9/12/2011 11:05 AM PDT
    85 Blood Elf Paladin
    8530
    Q: What type of content do you focus on?
    A: PvE
    If PvE, what type, I do Raids and heroics
    Q: What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    A: I would say Holy power, Its a great mechanic but implemented poorly the very first patch that used this all paladins felt the pain of it and how clunky it was. The whole point was to free up paladins rotations but it changed nothing.
    Q: What makes playing your class more fun?
    A: Being able to DPS Tank and Heal without feeling chained down by cooldowns or holy power charges. The whole Idea of a paladin is to be a holy defender of the light but that's the whole problem the only reason ret paladins were great in lich king is because every bloody mob was undead. Thus making us completely useless in Cata where undead mobs are rarly found.(I'm Pointing out that our class is meant to be a defender of holy and that we only fair well against a specific mob type).
    Q: What makes playing your class less fun?
    A: The whole clunky feeling of having to use Crusader strike 3 times to actually use my other ability's is what really kills it. Not being able to pair up to other classes or even be viable, I completely understand my roll we are a hybrid so we should have half damage and ability's split we do some physical and some magic.
    Q: How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    A: Our ability's are severely limited on the holy power system, as well as the RNG system so all in all our damage is completely random all while having to get 3 holy power to use other ability's. Its a lot of work for so little pay off, take for example the deathknight class they have 2 of each rune and most ability's take 1,2,3 runes each why couldn't we be like that as well? Why do we always have to have 3 holy power to use our ability's to the fullest?
    Q: What’s on your wish list for your class?
    A: My wishlist is a change to the ret spec completely change the haste talent or remove it make divine storm a learn able spell when you choose ret and replace it with another talent as well. Then make zealotry not require to have 3 holy power to be able to use it we don't need anything but mana to activate our wings so why can't that be the same for Zealotry?
    Q: What spells do you use the least?
    A: Healing spells honestly and our blessings unless its on myself blessing of sacrifice is a change that could be re worked into lets say sacrificing some % of my health to make my target take % of less damage for said period of time. Bam we are now awesome and important to have in a group.
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    13495
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

    Mainly PVE, I do PVP only to get the gear so I can survive on my server.
    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

    Heroics, some Raids, and LOTS of Achievements. Constantly working on getting rep up.
    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

    BG's only
    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

    The sheer number of possible things that a Paladin Tank is expected to do. Between holding aggro (not as big of a deal now), causing minimal damage, knowing the fights from all angles, we're also expected to heal half the time cause we can.
    What makes playing your class more fun?

    More damage abilities and less fairly useless spells.
    What makes playing your class less fun?

    The sheer amount of things expected of us.
    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    The basic Rotation for Tanks is fine for now.
    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    Simplification and a Brez. It makes no sense that a DK AND a Warlock would get a Brez over a warrior that is so in touch with the light!
    What spells do you use the least?

    Seal of Righteousness, Exorcism (as a tank if it's not an instant cast it's not worth it), Hand of Protection (Useless most of the time in a 5 man group, especially if anything like Bloodlust has been used cause then that person still has the CD up), Hand of Salvation (worthless cause too many other things to bind that are more important), Turn Evil (as a tank I always want to be in control of everything not have something go running off), Hand of Sacrifice (same as HoSal),
    Edited by Krennid on 9/12/2011 11:07 AM PDT
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    15065
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]

    Both PvE and PvP

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]

    Heroics and Raids

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]

    Arena, BG's, Rated if I could find a team

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.

    Ret - Biggest would be sometimes when Judgement and Holy Wrath are on cd, I can go Crusader Strike to Crusader Strike without any procs or buttons to push. While not all the time, its often enough to be frustrating.

    I love Avenging Wrath, and Guardian is nice eye candy, but it feels its best to chain the 2 along with Zealotry. And it feels redundant to have 3 damage dealing cooldowns you use all at once.

    What makes playing your class more fun?

    Ret - Having utility that you can use often. For example, in WotlK, I loved to be able melee but also watch out for teammates with heals, hands, sacred shield, cleanse. I'm not asking for some of those back but it was fun to have other things to do besides tunnel damage. As a damage dealer, I'd like to be able to take more non damage dealing action against others offensively, similar to having a lot of non damage dealing actions we used to have defensively. I suppose I like the paladin more than a warrior because of its support abilities and having variety in the actions you take.

    Holy - I like holy power for Holy. I feel its implemented pretty well. I'm not a fan of spam healing one heal, so Holy has been a huge improvement for Cata.

    What makes playing your class less fun?

    Ret - "tunneling damage" is less fun in pvp. The long empty gaps are less fun in pve.

    Holy - BY FAR - I hate being so susceptible to interrupts, lockouts, silences, and cc. I CAN NOT STAND them being chained back to back to back and not being able to recover. Only 1 school of spell sort of contributes to this. A paladin wears plate, supports the front line. Why is he forced to hide in the bushes like someone wearing cloth if he wants to heal? PvP healing as a paladin should not be about playing a game of "Peakaboo", its so so frustrating!

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)

    Ret - I hate Holy Wrath. I want it to go back to being a AoE only. Would rather have another melee strike on a shorter cd to help with gaps in rotation. Otherwise, I generally feel Judgement, Exorcism, Crusader Strike, Inquistion, and TV are solid. I like having to decide between Inq and TV, it adds to skill, keeps the rotation more dynamic and interesting, and it adds choice to do something with holy power when not in melee range of target.

  • Hammer of Wrath I'm on the fence about Hammer of Wrath. I don't mind it necessarily during Avenging Wrath but since I always use AW with Zealotry, I don't have enough gcd's for Exorcism when it procs because Hammer of Wrath, TV, and Crusader Strike take priority. I feel you may cut back on Hammer of Wrath's dmg due to complaints, but I love Hammer of Wrath as an execute more than getting to use it during Avenging Wrath. I feel its a heck of a lot more meaningful of a spell when you are having a hard time running down someone escaping to finish them off, and I worry if you nerf the damage, it won't be as meaningful in that "execute" situation. Maybe you could find away to design Exorcism being the ranged spell to use during Avenging Wrath rather than Hammer of Wrath, therefore keeping Hammer of Wrath as a true Execute? Maybe Exo could be auto available to use during Wings, with a cd in addition to the proc?

  • Holy Spec - Very happy with variety of heals to use often!

    What’s on your wish list for your class?

    Ret - more offensive utility - I would really like to have the option of playing with caster teammates, and they generally benefit more from melee who help them create space to cast. Maybe even that utility could utilize Holy Power. That would be sort of a skill separator.

    Holy Spec - anti CC ability! And I would like Exorcism to hit a lot harder, in addition to its secondary effect of preventing crits.

    What spells do you use the least?

    Consecration - Hardly ever
    Holy Wrath. I take it off my bars for pvp.
    Seal of Justice - Never in Cata yet
    Hand of Salvation - Not a whole lot really even in pve
    Divine Storm - Not as much as I would like!
    Ret Aura - Needs a different effect than 'thorns'
    Edited by Pereg on 9/16/2011 3:50 PM PDT
    85 Human Paladin
    6040
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    PVE
    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Everything!
    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? For instance, no longer requiring ammo could be considered a quality-of-life improvement for hunters.
    Holy Power. We have no burst because of this let-alone any of its uses outside of fights (pre-buffing, healing)
    What makes playing your class more fun?
    As Holy, everything!
    As Prot, everything!
    As ret... Nothing. At best the ability to support your group with "hands" and WoG
    What makes playing your class less fun?
    Not being able to dps, ret has no burst and has harsh setbacks or using your abilities at the wrong time.
    How do you feel about your “rotation”? (Rotation is the accepted order in which abilities are used to maximum efficiency.)
    Prot is awesome, Holy is godly; as for ret, simple yet way to punishing! God forbid I accidentally use templar with 2 holy power, or forget about inquisition for 1 holy power rotation...
    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    Allowing Avenging wrath to slow fall, or allow double jumps!
    What spells do you use the least?
    Prot-Divine light.
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    4035
    What type of content do you focus on? [PvE/PvP/Both]
    Both

    If PvE, what type of PvE? [Heroics/Raids/Other]
    Heroics and Raids.

    If PvP, what type of PvP? [Arenas, BGs, Rated BGs]
    All

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues?
    As a ret paladin I love being able to do an insane amount of burst damage, given the proper procs and CD's

    What makes playing your class more fun?
    Popping wings and watching my DPS rise up the charts or getting those fat crits on clothy's in PVP

    What makes playing your class less fun?
    In terms of PvE I would really like to actually get into more raids and not being told to get prot or holy because Ret just simply doesn't have enough to offer compared to other dps classes.

    In terms of PvP, I would really like to be able to close in on someone faster, even with the "Long Arm of the Law" talent, I still feel like gaining ground is a big issue.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”?
    I feel like the Ret rotation could use some work. I feel like gaining holy power, even with the procs, is slow at best.

    What’s on your wish list for your class?
    3 sec CD on Crusader Strike
    Change Sanctity of Battle Talent
    Divine Storm Generating HP when hitting 1 or more targets instead of requiring it to hit 4
    Some sort of Charge like ability.

    What spells do you use the least?
    Consecration, and Seal of Justice
    85 Blood Elf Paladin
    5985
    What type of content do you focus on? - Both

    If PvE, what type of PvE? - Definitely Raids

    If PvP, what type of PvP? - All types of PvP

    What are your biggest quality-of-life issues? - I cant think of any for holy paladins. Unless if you count Holy Power which is a whole different story.

    What makes playing your class more fun? - The new tweaks to give us bigger range on Holy Radiance was cool and the speed boosts.

    What makes playing your class less fun? - Always having to be still to heal, no healing over times, percent shield is useless basically, and not having any heals to cast before damage comes in.

    How do you feel about your “rotation”? - Its O.K I guess. Feel like I spam the same thing over and over and over.

    What’s on your wish list for your class? - Some sort of HoT.

    What spells do you use the least? - Holy Light
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