Alysrazor Guide on 350k+ Ignite/Comb by Logoz

90 Troll Mage
16345
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOo-9p_-AXc

Guide to maximum Combustion on Alysrazor:

The 1st (0:15) and 2nd (1:10) clips are part of the attempt where I parsed 220k dps.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-1odgyryyireeabf4/sum/damageDone/?s=7408&e=8024#Logoz
The 3rd clip (1:52) is a previous attempt with a good combust, but we wiped later on.

Secret to getting a big ignite:

Let ignite fall off right before burn phase starts.
Even if you ignore everything else below, just doing this part right will give you a big combustion.
What I've discovered through testing:
If I chain cast thru the entire tornado phase and continue chain casting into the burn phase, it is very difficult to get a big ignite even if all my procs line up and I stack my cooldowns perfectly (i.e. I never see ignite go higher than 125-150k).
If I let ignite fall off before burn phase begins, then stack a FRESH ignite after the boss gains the +50% dmg taken debuff, I can easily get a 300k+ ignite with just 5-6 pyros.
My theory behind this:
If you chain cast the entire time, your ignite never falls off from the time you get Alysra's Razor (+75%crit). And if you roll an "old" ignite into the burn phase, the old ignite is not fully benefitting (if even benefitting at all) from the +50% dmg taken debuff the boss gets during burn phase.
However, if you let the old ignite fall off, and then right after the boss gets +50% dmg taken, you pop all your cooldowns, you will get a new ignite that stacks up really fast.
Basically, the theory is that, it is difficult to build up an old ignite that has been on the boss for a long time. It is much easier to get a large ignite by stacking a FRESH one after burn phase starts.

Ways to let old ignite fall off:
As you notice in the video, I begin casting AB when tornado phase is almost over. This gives the old ignite time to fall off before burn phase starts.
Other spells you can cast include LB, flame orb, frostbolt, etc or anything else that doesn't refresh ignite. AB is prob the best dmg though. But remember, once you start casting pyros in burn phase, you don't want to cast LB again until right before Combustion (same reason why you don't want to use instant pyros in burn phase, more on that below).

Talents/Glyphs:
http://wowtal.com/#k=Wb20yTcv.b0w.mage.qQZW-M
Instant pyros are bad for burn phase, so don't pickup HotStreak and ImpHotStreak talents. I tried a "/cancelaura Hot Streak" macro before, but it is very clunky and once your pyros are <1.0sec cast, sometimes the macro doesn't cancel fast enough.
Reason for spec-
Casting a pyro takes about 1sec during burn phase. When you throw out an insta-pyro from a HS proc, it causes a 1sec GCD. Then it takes you another 1sec to cast another pyro afterwards. The GCD from using HS + 1sec hard cast of pyro afterwards is enough time for ignite to tick, which is bad.
Ideally, you want to chain hard-cast pyros so that they are 1sec cast each, which causes a pyro to land every 1sec, therefore, ignite will never tick. Your ignite will stack higher and higher and you "cash-in" with a giant ignite at the end.
Reason for glyphs-
Use Glyph of Living Bomb. Once you have 25stacks of haste buff, you will have btwn 300-350% haste. This makes LB tick 17-18 times in 12sec, and every tick will be a crit. My average LB tick crit was 17411, so each LB will do 17x17411 = 295,987dmg plus the explosion dmg. LB glyph giving 3% more dmg is really good.
Use Glyph of Fireball instead of Glyph of Pyroblast, because by the time you start casting Pyros, you will almost have Alysra's Razor (+75%crit). I cast 337 total pyros (28hit,309crit) and 152 fireballs (91hit,61crit). So it's much more beneficial to get more fireballs to crit during the 1st air phase.
Use Glyph of Molten Armor. Self-explanatory :)

See additional tips here:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3195920164?page=4#78
Edited by Logoz on 11/2/2011 11:27 AM PDT
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90 Troll Mage
16345
Gear used in video:
http://chardev.org/?profile=225628
4pc Tier12 is not necessary, in fact 2pc Tier12 isn't even necessary. Just pick gear that has the most mastery.
The idea behind Alysrazor gear is to reforge/gem into as much mastery as possible, after staying staying hit capped of course.
When gemming, use a 20int/20mast gem in a yellow socket with 10int bonus, where normal arcane setup would ignore the yellow socket and use 40int.
When reforging, if you have to choose btwn haste or crit, reforge the crit and leave the haste (in case you reach another haste breakpoint).
-------------------
Best OnUse trinkets for this fight: Chalice > Soul Casket > Rune of Zeth
Best passive/proc trinkets: DMC:Volcano > Heroic Necromantic Focus > Theralion's Mirror
------------------
Chalice is the best because 1700mastery increases your DoT dmg by +26.55%, leading to a much bigger ignite.
Soul Casket is 2nd because the spell power OnUse is more than the intellect Zeth gives.
Rune of Zeth is not as good b/c passive mastery on Soul Casket > passive crit on Zeth.
-----------------
DMC:Volcano is best because the proc increases your dmg by so much, and you can stack it on top of an OnUse trinket. Volcano also shares the exact same proc chance and ICD as PowerTorrent, so it is very likely they both proc at the same time or near the same time, everytime. Normally, the burn phase is long enough that DMC:Volcano is almost guaranteed to proc at some point during the burn.
Necro Focus is self-explanatory. Passive int and a lot of passive mastery. But good luck getting this before all your spriest/locks/boomkins/eleShams.
Theralion's Mirror is not very good b/c the ICD is too long and RNG. Sometimes I go an entire burn phase and I don't see it proc. The proc chance is also lower than volcano/PT.

AddOn to use:
myBigIgnite (you can see mine in the top-right next to the minimap)
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/mybigignite.aspx
This addOn shows you exactly how big your ignite is so you know when it's a good time to press Combustion.
You can also setup thresholds for ignite so it changes colors once it reaches a certain threshold.
For example, if ignite is >125k it will be Red, once ignite >200k it will turn Yellow, and once ignite >300k it will turn Green. You can change how big the thresholds are and the color as well, I believe.

Combustion rotation:
Combustion#1: Within 10-15sec after the pull
Combustion#2: After you get Alysra's Razor (+75%crit)
Combustion#3: 1st Burn phase
Combustion#4: After you get Alysra's Razor again.
Combustion#5: 2nd Burn phase
If you use Combust#1 right after the pull (10-15sec in), Combust#2 will be up and ready to use shortly after you get Alyra's Razor.
If you use Combust#2 with at least 10sec left before the 2nd firestorm, Combust#3 will be up in time for burn phase. Basically if you don't miss any rings, after you get Alyra's Razor, you should have time to cast at least 6-8 pyros (all crits) then use Combust#2 and still have enough time for Combust#3 to come up in time for burn phase.
Combust#3 is in 1st burn phase.
Combust#4 is the same as Combust#2. After getting Alyra's Razor again, cast a handful of pyros, then use Combust, and Combust#5 will be up for 2nd burn phase.
Combust#5 is in 2nd burn phase.

See additional tips here:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3195920164?page=4#78
Edited by Logoz on 11/2/2011 11:27 AM PDT
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90 Troll Mage
16345
FAQ:
---Why not use FFB to stack an extra DoT during burn phase to make Combustion bigger?
I tried this before and it did not work out as well. Although the FFB DoT does add into combustion calculation, the size of ignite is way more important for a big combustion. Having to cast 3xFFB during burn phase really hinders your ignite. During burn phase, you want to cast your biggest, hardest hitting spell to start stacking ignite as fast as possible. FFB does not hit nearly as hard as pyro, it doesn't even hit as hard as fireball.

---When do you start casting Pyroblast instead of Fireball?
This is based on how much haste you have on your gear. For me, I normally switch to pyros when I have 17-18 stacks of haste buff. This is normally getting a few more rings after the 1st firestorm.
But a good rule of thumb is basically, when your fireball becomes 0.9sec cast, switch to pyro.

---Why do you have 2/2 ImpBlink? Why don't you have 2/2 Invocation for 10% dmg when interrupting Clawshaper during burn phase?

2/2 Invocation WOULD help during burn phase if I CS'd an add, but my tanks are normally really fast on interrupts and I never get to interrupt. Besides, there is already plenty of stuff to pay attention to when burn phase starts, besides worrying about interrupting.
2/2 ImpBlink helps after a firestorm, when the feathers are really far away from the boulder you are behind.

---Does this work everytime? Does letting the old ignite fall off guarantee you a big ignite in burn phase?
It is not 100% guaranteed to work, but it does increase your chances of getting a huge ignite.
Out of 10 burn phases I tested this, it worked 7 or 8 times for me.

Other thoughts:
Even with the 'letting ignite fall off trick', sometimes my ignite just won't go any higher. And I haven't figured out why yet.
It either works, or doesn't work, there is no middle ground.
When it work, every pyro you cast will increase the ignite displayed on myBigIgnite, and you will reach a 300k+ ignite very fast.
When it doesn't work, your ignite will cap out at 125-150k, and no matter how well you stack your cooldowns, ignite just won't go any higher.
Since there is no middle ground, it leads me to believe that it is NOT RNG based, but rather some other non-RNG factor I haven't identified yet. Maybe something like pyro's cast time, exact amount of haste, distance away from boss (travel time), etc.

I hope this guide helps all the mages out there who get to fly and love the Alysrazor fight, as well as love seeing big numbers :-)
Good luck and happy parsing!

See additional tips here:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3195920164?page=4#78
Edited by Logoz on 11/2/2011 11:28 AM PDT
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85 Human Mage
11525
Thanks for the info, I'll try this out. I didn't even realize ignite could roll like that :/

So cast combustion when razor has ~45 energy?


Why would one argue t12 4 pce is necessary when you aren't even getting the hotstreak talent? Confused why you made a point of saying that.
Edited by Archanom on 9/15/2011 9:15 PM PDT
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Very cool, I'll be giving this a try on our next attempt.
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90 Draenei Mage
12545
A comprehensive guide to me not failing at combustion on alysrazor anymore...


/hug
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90 Blood Elf Mage
14660
dear goodness!
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90 Blood Elf Mage
0
Awesome!
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90 Blood Elf Mage
TF
14085
---Does this work everytime? Does letting the old ignite fall off guarantee you a big ignite in burn phase?
It is not 100% guaranteed to work, but it does increase your chances of getting a huge ignite.
Out of 10 burn phases I tested this, it worked 7 or 8 times for me.


Haven't checked your logs very in depth but are the 2-3 out of 10 times it doesn't work following a pattern where your ignite will ramp up and then suddenly go down about 40-50k when you expect it to climb before going back up? An example might be consecutive ticks going 50k 100k 150k 200k 250k 200k 250k 180k or something like that when there's no changes in haste/rotation, and just 1 spell being spammed.

I bring it up because I managed to get a 389k Combustion going by using a similar method, but by spamming Fireball with the Soul Casket (hadn't farmed the Chalice yet) and have had some trouble repeating those results

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ks9z9kdhpp26dibk/sum/damageDone/?s=6730&e=6797

We wiped and I sent my tank all the appropriate death threats and then on the next pull I got it going at about 350k where we wiped again. Every pull since those two it seems like my ignite won't "stack" the way it should be and follows a pattern similar to the example I mentioned, but it seems like you get this at a much lower rate comparing logs. I'm curious if it's just something timing related with pyroblast vs fireball, or possibly even positioning. Do you always stand in melee range like the videos you linked? I'm usually about 20 yards out and thinking maybe the timing on staff procs at that distance might be causing issues.

Either way thanks for the information, I've been confused why my stack hasn't been consistent and it gives me a few thing to try out.
Edited by Guac on 9/15/2011 11:36 PM PDT
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it wasnt clear for me from the video so I'll ask:

You are keeping lb up during the entire airphase yeah?

during the burnout phase it should be pyro -> ... -> pyro -> LB -> combustion -> impact. Is that right? Doesn't ignite tick during the LB gcd or does the LB itself make up for it?

also 1 more: assuming we dont grab a ring at the end of the tornado phase, do we want to combustion with at least 10 secs left on the alys razor buff so that all ticks will crit? or does it not work like that?

thanks for the post - already looking forward to next weeks kill
Edited by Cedrick on 9/16/2011 12:00 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Mage
9475
Thanks Logoz, great guide! I'll definitely be using some of the pointers you mentioned...
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85 Gnome Mage
8045
Logoz, you've specced into Pyromaniac but it was never up before casting combustion, which would've added around 15 ticks of combustion in all. Is there a way to get the buff without having to stop chain-casting pyro and applying LB on the 2 adds, so that ignite never ticks on the boss?
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Nice guide.

Just curious, how much time was wasted while you reforged, gem, and enchant your gear for one fight? Not that it matters, just wondering if you made a special set for this or do you port out during trash?

I would love to do this, but don't want to leave my raid sitting around a bucket of crabs.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10050
Fantastic . My alt mage thanks you!
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90 Blood Elf Mage
8715
Thank you!!!

This completely explains why I get much weaker ignites than I expect.
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@logoz

I have a solution to the invocation problem.

http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5108-Clique.html

That addon will allow you to 1) bind a mouse button to Counter Spell. 2) Cast Counter Spell on a target's unit frame without having to select the target.

The strat of using it is rather simple. Focus a tank, and have your unit frames display "Focus's Target." This will allow you quick access to CS the add. Just let your tank know before hand that you are going to do it so that they can change their rotation.

I also recommend setting up your UI to show what your focus's target is casting.
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90 Troll Mage
16345

So cast combustion when razor has ~45 energy?

Yes. Unless you're trying to parse, in which case you need to cast combust before 40energy and spread it so adds take combustion dmg, because adds despawn at 50energy.


Haven't checked your logs very in depth but are the 2-3 out of 10 times it doesn't work following a pattern where your ignite will ramp up and then suddenly go down about 40-50k when you expect it to climb before going back up? An example might be consecutive ticks going 50k 100k 150k 200k 250k 200k 250k 180k or something like that when there's no changes in haste/rotation, and just 1 spell being spammed.

Hmm, for me, I haven't seen a situation where ignite suddenly goes down. If it "doesn't work" for me, ignite ramps up to somewhere btwn 125-150k and then just sits there the whole burn phase, despite no change in rotation. Just spamming pyro the whole time, and it won't go any higher, but does not drop.
It's very obvious when it doesn't work for me, I just never see ignite pass 150k.
And when it does work, ignite gets bigger with every pyro.


I'm curious if it's just something timing related with pyroblast vs fireball, or possibly even positioning. Do you always stand in melee range like the videos you linked?

I doubt it has anything to do with fireball vs pyro. I see no reason to cast fireball when they are both <1.0sec cast time. Pyro would be the better choice since it hits harder.
My best guess to whether it "works" or "doesn't work" would be related to positioning.
I always stand in melee range, just like my videos. I believe the closer to melee you are (i.e. less travel time there is), the better.
It may have something to do with staff procs, I have not considered that. However, even before I finished my staff, I had seen very black and white attempts where it worked and also when it didn't.


You are keeping lb up during the entire airphase yeah?

Sorry I didn't mention anything about air phase, but yes, keep LB up the entire time while flying. The only time you stop casting LB is when you chain pyro in burn phase.


during the burnout phase it should be pyro -> ... -> pyro -> LB -> combustion -> impact. Is that right? Doesn't ignite tick during the LB gcd or does the LB itself make up for it?

Your rotation is correct. And since Combust is off the GCD, when you are ready to combust, you can cast it literally right after LB (when all other spells are put on GCD), before ignite actually has time to tick.


also 1 more: assuming we dont grab a ring at the end of the tornado phase, do we want to combustion with at least 10 secs left on the alys razor buff so that all ticks will crit? or does it not work like that?

Correct. If you want all ticks of Combust to crit, you must combust with at least 10sec left on Alyra's Razor buff. As soon as the crit buff falls off, the remaining ticks of your combustion will not be guaranteed crits.
Edited by Logoz on 9/16/2011 8:28 AM PDT
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90 Troll Mage
16345
09/16/2011 02:44 AMPosted by Tarethaa
Logoz, you've specced into Pyromaniac but it was never up before casting combustion, which would've added around 15 ticks of combustion in all. Is there a way to get the buff without having to stop chain-casting pyro and applying LB on the 2 adds, so that ignite never ticks on the boss?

You are correct. Having Pyromaniac up before combustion would do much more dps from more ticks, however I don't believe it is worth the risk.
The risk, of course, is spending a GCD to spread DoTs to adds BEFORE combustion to get Pyromaniac up, but giving ignite a chance to tick.
Even if ignite does not tick, you risk not having an impact to spread combustion later on. More often than not, I find myself with a great ignite, leading to a great combustion, but no impact proc at all. If I get even 1 impact proc during burn phase, I praise the lord.


Just curious, how much time was wasted while you reforged, gem, and enchant your gear for one fight? Not that it matters, just wondering if you made a special set for this or do you port out during trash?
I would love to do this, but don't want to leave my raid sitting around a bucket of crabs.

I have a special set in equipment manager for this fight.
Mantle of Close Doors (which has 20int/20mast gem in it) is not part of my normal arcane gear, and nothing else needs to be re-gemmed.
I have a chardev profile setup with my Alysrazor gear and how it should be reforged so I don't have to think about which pieces to reforge every time (I only have to reforge like 4-5 items).
No re-enchants are needed.
The entire process takes less than 5min, and I do it while the raid kills Alyrazor trash.

@logoz
I have a solution to the invocation problem.
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5108-Clique.html
That addon will allow you to 1) bind a mouse button to Counter Spell. 2) Cast Counter Spell on a target's unit frame without having to select the target.

@Entropy
Thanks! I will give this a try.
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