I typed this earlier, but forgot to click submit. I'm clicking it now! Apologies to my fellow corpse above this post for intercutting between her mention of Gilneas-ism and Worgenism.
I don't think there's a problem with it. If anything it gives the Alliance a faster way to get to the minigame in Hillsbrad as well.
Was it not one of the reasons that they don't let people go there, though? Proximity to Silverpine and possible Alliance interference in low level zones? More of a PvP server concern, I suppose, but still...
Depends on how nameless they would be exactly. For instance I don't consider a character like, say, Tobias Mistmantle to be nameless. Nor do I consider other important characters that played a very integral part in defending Gilneas during the Worgen incursion and then later the Forsaken invasion to be nameless either. Much like how the goblins got to meet up with all their old companions that helped them through Kezan to Lost Isle and now you meet them in Orgrimmar and Azshara, by comparison the Worgen only meet a fraction of that many characters and I feel that's wasteful because they had so much... well, character to them.
By nameless I meant "Gilnean Citizen" and the lot. You see Bilgewater Foremen, dock workers and such... just nameless folk. They can be grouped with the named people, but would be in equal numbers.
In my mindset, the Howling Oak strikes me as a temporary refugee district. In all honesty this has been said before, but the Howling Oak is simply unrepresentative of the identity of the Gilneans and if anything I still have that feeling that it's just a placeholder area until something better comes along for the Worgen. If it does become empty then I think that's fine, but I wouldn't mind that it still housed certain feral worgen that still needed to go through with the ritual in case they never could in Gilneas.
Well I believe I read that Worgen prefer that sort of living to buildings. I had read as such from people discussing that element from Wolfheart (which I am only 50 pages in at the moment and have yet to verify). Ferals would likely be inclined to stay in areas like the Blackwald or Northgate Woods... which I admit would be interesting since the latter was Crowley's land prior.
Celestine is too busy in Hyjal.
She was just an example. Several NPCs in Stormwind have been given Gilnean voices. Would they go back to Gilneas or would they stay? Celestine's also a trainer in Stormwind, hence my inquiry. Would she be moved? Tobias is another... he's operating in Duskwood.
Sure, why not.
Gilnean #1: "This land is for Gilneans. I am a Gilnean! Step forward brothers and raise your voices in declaration!"
Worgen: "I am a Gilnean. I was a good and noble merchant from Duskhaven!"
Gilnean #2: "That mangy animal also was a feral beast that killed my livestock AND my @#$%ing family!"
Gilnean #1: "Man does have a point... you are a bloodthirsty, savage killing machine that even now after your ritual is dangerous and feral minded deep down."
I don't know about both factions, perhaps I would be okay with it if the Alliance had a sizeable portion of Gilneas whereas the Horde were more situated in the outskirts planning assaults. As for the Wintergrasp/Tol Barad idea, I am completely unsupportive of anything of the sort simply because both Wintergrasp and Tol Barad have been known to fail by design concept.
I can see your idea, but division would be nearly impossible. What land would what faction get? Would the Forsaken take the northern woods up to Keel Harbor with the Worgen taking the south? Would the humans operate out of... Greymane manor? Tempest's Reach? Would each group get a base and the rest of the area be contested ala Tol Barad? Logistics are a pain to even think about.
This is indeed and interesting thought and I commend you for bringing this up. I personally feel that some tension would moreso arise from priorities in what the Alliance needs, I would like to personally see Genn opt to gain Gilneas back and wager that it would be a brilliant move to do so. Some disagreements could be made as the Alliance is pressured in many different strategic points, which would fire Genn up to support it even stronger. Between Darius and Genn, they have mended their broken bridges so I don't see too much conflict arising from them which I think I'm pretty fine with because these have to work together. If it's portrayed as anything like it was in the Gilneas starting area though, I would like that too.
They were friends and he let them out of prison, true, but after the sacrifice of Crowley and his men we have to think about what we did not see. We never saw any real forgiveness, just introspection on how the Worgen wouldn't have stood a chance. Was all bad blood just discarded and they're friends again? That just sounds unlikely to me. Perhaps I'm underestimating the two's friendship, but one trying to take over a kingdom that the other owned is a pretty hard to forgive act IMHO.
Well surely there's lots of different ideas that we could culminate for this. Perhaps the Gilneans have more than just guns, steel, claws, and teeth to fight back against the Forsaken? Perhaps they found a much more rallying leader to help them against Sylvanas and her ilk? Perhaps... quite frankly, they're simply fed up with losing the kingdom they once loved and now are fighting back much harder with increased strength and furor. Who really knows... I personally think something different could be made.
I had meant gameplay. This comes off as you just saying morale is higher or they have a bit more backing. How can we make gameplay of taking back the city in a manner that is original when it was technically already done in the starting zone. You list motivations, I speak of in-game elements.
I would hope so.
That unfortunately leads to a return of "what would the Horde get?" query. You start with reclaiming Gilneas (an epic feat there), then you force the enemy out (more epicness) and you end with rebuilding the Greymane Wall, securing the safety of the kingdom and practically getting your happily ever after. That is A LOT. Not sure what the Horde could get to equal that either.
I believe they would also get an epic quest chain in helping the Goblins gain Kezan back. Why do I think Kezan isn't completely lost? Well I think Thrall would have say in its restoration given that the Goblins saved him from capture and I'm sure the jolly green guy wouldn't have a problem in repaying them by restoring their home.
You must also remember that while Goblins have lost a lot, it hasn't harmed their identity quite nearly as badly as the Worgen. They still have a massive presence and a very vibrant questing experience due to many zones having Goblin settlements that they can easily identify with given Kezan's close relations with other cartels.
They couldn't get Kezan back in that sense. Kezan is a massive island and we only saw one big city. It can return, sure, but odds are it will be accompanied by the rest of the island... say in the future expansion where the Goblin capital of Undermine is included. They could look at the Lost Isles, but that also just recently erupted and is a mess. The only reason they'd go back there is for the Kaja'mite.
Identity I can't really argue. Goblins seem to have a large and very similar identity between cartels. Worgen... have a lot of different identities and factions within. You have Scythe worgen who came from the elves, you have royalists, rebels, feral Gilneans, Pyrewood worgen, Northrend worgen, feral Duskwood citizens, tamed versions the two former... and you have the ones integrating into Night Elf society. It is difficult for Blizzard to properly utilize all of those varying identities. Is it safe to say the Worgen are losing identity without Gilneas? Sort of. They have places like Surwich that carry the architectural identity and such, but I can admit they have lost elements of their culture in integrating into Kaldorei culture.
He very much has, if you've read Wolfheart he and Varian are pretty much broski's now and Genn has learned much from his past mistakes after the death of his son. He is pretty much a humbled man whom I believe will stick around with the Alliance given that they've helped him even when they've seen the worst of him.
Well... they haven't really seen the worst of him. Varian's heard a bit of it, but everyone who knew the pain in the rear Genn is either dead or missing.
For this I am unsure, as I believe that Gallywix is not in a very good position of power given his traitorous ways and being at the mercy of the Goblin players. Perhaps if Thrall or even Garrosh wills it, he will listen and also wish for Kezan to return.
Gallywix at the mercy of the Goblin players? I don't see that. He owns the Bilgewater Battalion, pretty much controls Azshara, wears a tophat and is fat (which automatically gives him a great deal of power), lives on a mountaintop which can only be accessed by flyer and has it filled with mooks, etc. The guy is practically untouchable and if you choose to bother him again, he'll shove you in his Scorpid pit. At Garrosh's mercy, I'd be more inclined to agree with, but Garrosh doesn't seem to mind him as it is the Bilgewater goblins that are building his war machine.
Questions answered, hope I remained nicely consistent and well thought out for you good chum. *loads his rifle*
Mangy dog thinks he can speak to me as such... best teach the bugger a lesson.
FOR THE TRUE PEOPLE OF GILNEAS! THE DEAD ONES!!!