A call to get Gilneas back.

Gilneas isn't much closer to Undercity than Rachet is to Ogrimmar and/or Southern Barrens are to Northern Barrens, so I don't buy that it will turn the Forsaken leveling experience into a miasma of high level Alliance PvP jerk-enabled pain.

Make it a full-fledged 13-20 PvE zone for Worgen. No more furry Night Elves.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
11720
I'd like to actually see a chart that measures up this zone imbalance you keep ringing about and I still think if the Horde got Kezan/Lost Isles back it would help balance take place again.


Back in pre-Cata, the Alliance had more leveling zones than the Horde. While the Alliance had in quests in most of the Horde zones, the Horde didn't have the same thing.

I'll quote Genesis from SoL

"When people talk about Alliance/Horde zone imbalance, they are talking roughly about the 1-30 level experience. Some of these zones are "contested" but lack any quests by the opposing faction, or minimal to the absurd (e.g. the one Forsaken quest in Duskwood).

Alliance Zones (11): Elwynn Forest, Westfall, Redridge, Duskwood, Dun Morogh, Loch Modan, Wetlands, Teldrassil, Darkshore, Azuremyst Isle, Bloodmyst Isle.

Horde Zones (8): Tirisfal Glades, Silverpine Forest, Eversong Woods, Ghostlands, Durotar, Mulgore, Barrens (I'll be nice and count this as two)."
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
I think one thing I don't get is how the Gilneas experience would trump out the Kezan one. Aren't Goblins more popular than Worgen at this moment? And according to certain Horde fans they're absolutely better than Worgen? So why would any Worgen experience trump that for Goblin lovers when Goblins are simply awesomeness in a can? I'd probably wager they should make a thread to come up with ideas for an epic retaking of Kezan and Lost Isles, but then again I think I rarely see threads or pleas for that because the Goblins have it made in Azshara and have homes in multiple areas to call their own as well as a stable economy I presume.

Anyway, I think I'll clarify further that this is something I'm not demanding to happen for 4.4 but maybe someday in the future. I won't get mad or hate Blizzard just because they don't think Gilneas should be an Alliance zone, maybe a bit disgruntled but that always comes with wanting a direction for something and never seeing it come to fruition, we've all had it because we love Warcraft's universe so much. I simply think Gilneas was one of the most defining things about the Worgen. It's even their faction name, Gilneas, and they're known as Gilneans. What other playable faction has their faction named after their kingdom or city but doesn't own that kingdom/city? None of them. It would be like having the Goblins be known as Kezan Goblins. Except they're Bilgewater Cartel because they lost Kezan and are more known for their Cartels rather than their cities. I think when the time is right Gilneas will return and the Worgen will fight hard to reclaim it.

Will it happen in 4.4? Likely not. Will it happen next expansion? Doubt it. 6 years from now? Can't tell you. But one thing I can tell you is that I'll be there waiting patiently to see a return for it because I simply don't think it's too far from salvation.
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90 Worgen Hunter
9210
I dont know if this has been posted or not but here goes!

We have two almost completly empty zones:

Ruins of Gilneas

And Ashzara (or goblin land as i like to call i now)

Now Goblin land is a lot more developed with quests and stuff but the city in the middle is empty... It has npcs yes but the last time I went there (near the end of 4.1) There were no venders or anything.

Gilneas has a whole, empty, CITY that is just lieing there, useless after the worgen starter quests and a brief foray into it on the Forsakken quests. Also excluding the pvp

Now I know that some people will say that they are useless capitals but I dont think so, sure Gilneas is pretty close to Tirisfal but I dont see why that should stop them...

I guess I am just bias because I want to rp in a gilneas full of Npcs!
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90 Worgen Death Knight
4805
Yes yes... oh, you're serious aren't you? Well then no. Now go away before we unleash the blight upon you wretched lot. Now which one of these was my house...

I have a very hard time seeing Blizzard giving the Alliance Gilneas again simply because of the area it borders.

Now if Blizzard decided to do this there is a lot to be considered. There are different formats to follow, ideas to go with, etc. Would you just fill it up like Bilgewater Harbor with a series of nameless people with the odd familiar name thrown in? Reintegrate the former NPC population of humans from The Howling Oak? Would the Oak just be left empty? What about the Stormwind dwelling Gilneans like Celestine? Include Worgen and human in happy cohabitation? Would consideration of other formats work... like Making it a daily hub for both factions? A new Wintergrasp/Tol Barad? There is a lot of potential for what to do with Gilneas. Maybe even too much potential. I honestly think that no matter what happens, (some) people will be disappointed.

The rest I'm posting is just questions and details that came to mind while writing the above. Lore concerns, gameplay concerns and the like...

When I say too much potential, I mean for example: Gilneas is restored to the humans and they are giddy to retake power in the region. However, when Greymane returns he sees Crowley sitting in his chair, as he's led the the people in Genn's absence and ran the area's defense. Memories of a not-so-long-ago rebellion kick in at the thought of Crowley having had such authority. Gilneas enters a state of political turmoil shortly after the people return. Royalists, rebels and ferals cannot be expected to get along for long even in the face of adversity. Interesting for story, but what would they do in-game? Make everyone happy or show tension. If they do one thing, they might anger part of the player base who want political intrigue/scandal and if they do the other, they make a similar problem but for other reasons.

Or for gameplay: What stops the Battle for Gilneas 2.0 from being identical to the first one aside from the lack of Liam? It would be a bit more difficult to set that up in a manner that pleases the players and has originality. Or do you just come back to see all is good and the battle has been won. Do the Alliance get an epic quest chain that leads to resealing the Greymane Wall? What would the Horde get in return? Anything? Gilneas is largely intact... Kezan isn't nearly in shape like that. It's a mangled ruin covered in ash and molten rock.

If the Gilneans and Bilgewater Cartel had their homes, what keeps them in their respective factions? Genn only returned to the Alliance because Gilneas was lost and has always been more isolationist. Has he changed in his elder years? And why would Gallywix even WANT to go back considering Azshara was always his dream to rule?

TL;DR: Who would cross the Bridge to Gilneas must answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see.
The horde took Hillsbrad, and part of Arathi. Both forward bases. And, considering that the crusade doesn't care that the forsaken are destroying the decade of healing they did in the plaguelands, not much to worry about. How do we get it back? Iron forge airfield. There could be vehicle quests where you bomb military targets in dwarves bombers, destroy columns of troops and blight in gyrocopters, possibly bring in a gunship, paratroopers taking bridges, bases, and small towns, and finally...... a naval invasion. Battle your way into Gilneas from a beachhead, secure docks, and then roll in more troops. Rebuild the wall fortify it, and build working military bases. From there, The alliance and forsaken can battle it out in southern silver pine. That would be epic, but ALOT
of work. THEN the Alliance would have the momentum to retake Stromgarde, or even Arathi, due to the forsaken being distracted. Horde quests would involve keeping supply lines open, defending towns, etc. Danath can make acomeback, and have a heart wrenching duel with his own son. Thoradin's wall gets rebuilt. The horde could get a "retake Kezan" thing, which could perhaps be overrun by naga, if it's a south seas expansion. A long, grueling campaign of a naval invasion (airstrikes possible), fighting through the vast depths of the Undermine, and reclaiming Bilgewater's share.
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The horde took Hillsbrad, and part of Arathi. Both forward bases. And, considering that the crusade doesn't care that the forsaken are destroying the decade of healing they did in the plaguelands, not much to worry about. How do we get it back? Iron forge airfield. There could be vehicle quests where you bomb military targets in dwarves bombers, destroy columns of troops and blight in gyrocopters, possibly bring in a gunship, paratroopers taking bridges, bases, and small towns, and finally...... a naval invasion. Battle your way into Gilneas from a beachhead, secure docks, and then roll in more troops. Rebuild the wall fortify it, and build working military bases. From there, The alliance and forsaken can battle it out in southern silver pine. That would be epic, but ALOT
of work. THEN the Alliance would have the momentum to retake Stromgarde, or even Arathi, due to the forsaken being distracted. Horde quests would involve keeping supply lines open, defending towns, etc. Danath can make acomeback, and have a heart wrenching duel with his own son. Thoradin's wall gets rebuilt.

I absolutely love this idea, I for one see no reason why the Worgen wouldn't be able to reuse Gilneas as a leveling area besides the fact they'd be seeing the same terrain countless times, but that's a small complaint considering the amazing turmoil and dramatic action they'd be seeing!
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90 Worgen Death Knight
4805
Hehe. Thanks! Considering that the horde is shattered and busy, and with some good airstrikes on the forsaken plague, we could deprive them of blight. AND val'kyr. Ooohhh... Maybe you get to captain a gunship, for the invasions of both factions?
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90 Worgen Death Knight
4805
Also, with some good shamanic and Druidic work, Kezan could be repaired, much like Gilneas could be.
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85 Dwarf Priest
10095
would be really cool
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
The horde took Hillsbrad, and part of Arathi. Both forward bases. And, considering that the crusade doesn't care that the forsaken are destroying the decade of healing they did in the plaguelands, not much to worry about. How do we get it back? Iron forge airfield. There could be vehicle quests where you bomb military targets in dwarves bombers, destroy columns of troops and blight in gyrocopters, possibly bring in a gunship, paratroopers taking bridges, bases, and small towns, and finally...... a naval invasion. Battle your way into Gilneas from a beachhead, secure docks, and then roll in more troops. Rebuild the wall fortify it, and build working military bases. From there, The alliance and forsaken can battle it out in southern silver pine. That would be epic, but ALOT
of work. THEN the Alliance would have the momentum to retake Stromgarde, or even Arathi, due to the forsaken being distracted. Horde quests would involve keeping supply lines open, defending towns, etc. Danath can make acomeback, and have a heart wrenching duel with his own son. Thoradin's wall gets rebuilt. The horde could get a "retake Kezan" thing, which could perhaps be overrun by naga, if it's a south seas expansion. A long, grueling campaign of a naval invasion (airstrikes possible), fighting through the vast depths of the Undermine, and reclaiming Bilgewater's share.


Yes I'm actually in more favor of us winning through more air battles rather than land battles as it would make more sense given how the blight is very fragile to open airfield attacks. I also really like the idea of seeing guerilla warfare being done from the player's PoV so more stealth style quests would be a neat given.
Edited by Grimtale on 9/21/2011 4:11 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Death Knight
4805
Exactly. The forsaken have almost no air capability, while we have hundreds.
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Like the old German joke:

Gilneas is a city of warehouses. There WERE houses, now there are none.
Edited by Brassbin on 9/21/2011 8:12 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Death Knight
4805
Doesn't mean it won't be useful.
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85 Worgen Rogue
13005
So long as Goblins get a portion of Kezan back too, I concur with this.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
Like the old German joke:

Gilneas is a city of warehouses. There WERE houses, now there are none.


At first I thought you were going to make a werewolf joke something along the lines of:

Gilnean houses are warehouses. As in they are were-houses. (Note to Blizz, let's make Gilnean architecture more grizzly since they are now Worgen.)
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90 Worgen Death Knight
4805
Exactly! I mean, we have hundreds of capable bombers, they don't. If we used not retarded (Pardon the offensiveness) strategy, everything north of the battlescar & hillsbrad would be a giant crater.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
I don't think they would ever do that now... but a man can dream, eh?

I kid I kid, I think Stormwind needs something about it to make it awesome as it does look as if it's been stagnating for quite some time. Deathwing's perpetual incinerating of one of its districts has shaken it up a bit but I think it's done more damage than it has helped it become more recognizable and genuine to the overall story.
Edited by Grimtale on 9/22/2011 10:32 AM PDT
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