Firelands Raid Hotfixes Sept. 20

1 Troll Hunter
0


As a casual raider, we'll be working our butts off trying to down the normal difficulty, while looking in awe at the elitist guild members in their shiny heroic T13 gear glowing in the trade/dwarf district.
That's the way world rolls.


No, this is how it SHOULD work. How it actually works, now, is someone who just hit 85 sees someone else with shiny purple gear, says "Hey, where did you get that?" The hardcore raider replies, "Heroic boss in Firelands." At this point the new 85 player asks in trade for a PuG so that he can also get these awesome purple pieces of gear. Upon walking into Firelands, finding out that he has no idea what any of the bosses do, or how to even play his class, he is extremely upset. He doesn't want to take the time to gear up or wipe to learn the fights. He makes a post on the Blizzard forums about how he'll quit the game because Blizzard made the gear too difficult to obtain. Blizzard goes "Oh man, this guy isn't going to pay us money anymore? We're releasing Diablo 3 soon, so we can't afford to lose any players that might keep paying us for WoW rather than quitting when D3 comes out. We better do what this guy is asking for and just hand him loot."
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1 Blood Elf Rogue
0
<agrees with Finlek
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90 Worgen Warlock
17325
These nerfs to HEROIC MODES are extremely disappointing, Blizzard. Nerf normal all you want, let people see the content for sure, why you are taking challenge away from those who seek it is beyond me, however. While your encounter design this expansion has been great, the nerfs in heroic Firelands have been a huge mistake.

Heroic modes AREN'T FOR EVERYONE. You don't need to nerf them to make them for everyone. I'm considering just letting my subscription run out. I'm certainly not sick of the game, and have played almost since release, but I am sick of changes like these. I want to do challenging content, not watered down versions of what was once challenging content.
Edited by Turiyaa on 9/20/2011 1:51 PM PDT
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85 Night Elf Mage
6160
So you are saying that you will be able to clear firelands now?

You haven't even passed 7th grade math to figure out dps requirements, I bet the nerfs are intended for you.

If you'd passed 7th grade math you'd know that you need atleast 13k dps to kill most bosses in there.


What's so magical about 7th grade math? Not 6th grade math, not 8th grade, but specifically and most assuredly 7th grade math. That's where they teach you the fundamentals on World of Warcraft raid calculations?
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100 Human Paladin
12920
As someone who's been 6/7 heroic for a few weeks, I openly welcome the nerf to the first 6 bosses. We fly through them, anyways. The nerfs to rag.. well I hoped they would come later, but at the same time I'm sure we still will get realm first and that's really all I care about.
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85 Tauren Druid
4290
Way to make the game more boring than it already is Blizz, so many people said not to do this, and you went through with it. Shows how much you value the opinion of your fan base. THIS IS WHY YOU'RE LOSING SUBS. Including me, bye Blizz
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
whoa. To the ground.
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1 Blood Elf Rogue
0
Well i kno blizz is reading some of this, can we get a blue post on the logic blizz has behind the hm nerf?
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100 Night Elf Hunter
10245
Blizzard, this is terribly disappointing, yet again.

Why even have heroic modes if you're going to nerf them in parallel with normals?

Why start nerfing current content this extremely when the next raid patch is still likely months away? (Diablo 3 announcement seems like the most likely culprit...)

After the debacle of WotLK, do you not understand the amount of time and energy that gets put into guilds trying to climb a raiding mountain, at whatever pace they choose, only to have you so clumsily and brashly come through and upend that in the most amateur, unthinkable fashion possible?

I understand that you guys became a heavy weight in the industry by playing it safe, calculating and iterating and polishing ad nauseum, but it's really starting to become almost absurd just how aimless and taking-shots-in-the-dark you are about your end-game raid design.

So, one overall general plea, at least when it comes to end-game raiding:

Please begin to choose to focus on how to innovate and not simply placate.

You will likely keep printing money in Irvine either way, but you guys are a bellwether for the video game industry and you really. aren't. helping.
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- Technical Support
100 Human Warrior
22100
The 4.2 Hotfixes blog post has been updated with a complete list of the changes:
<a href="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3019413/">http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3019413/</a>


any chance of more specifics on actual timing changes? i'd like to know what tormented was actually shortened to on 10 and 25 player normal. From a boss mod author stand point and a person who doesn't pull bosses on normal anymore.
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85 Troll Mage
12470
I still don't understand how nerfing heroic modes makes anything more fun, for anyone. It's not like you guys nerf the SC2 campaign's higher difficulty levels a few months after the game's been out. You leave it alone.

I hope this stops after the Raid Finder is released and the game has its 3rd difficulty setting. Maybe what you've done here is an acceptable interim measure, while the game waits for that 3rd setting. But long-term it makes no sense. Other games don't do it. Even Blizzard's other games don't do it. You leave difficulty settings alone.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
7855
Thank you, Blizzard, for your "gradual" nerfs of 25% to every frickin' boss except the easiest 3!

Seriously, this is your idea of "gradual OVER THE COMING WEEKS"? 25% in one fel swoop?

This is ludicrous! In a single night you've turned Firelands from a legitimate challenge into a fricking HANDOUT.

I will feel 0 sense of accomplishment when we down Rag this week (which I'm sure we will now!). I'll feel like the kill was handed to me as a freebie.

The only reason I'm going to keep raiding is to keep my raid team together until 4.3.


Remove half your gear, problem solved.

(I bet you won't.)
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100 Human Paladin
7255


As a casual raider, we'll be working our butts off trying to down the normal difficulty, while looking in awe at the elitist guild members in their shiny heroic T13 gear glowing in the trade/dwarf district.
That's the way world rolls.


No, this is how it SHOULD work. How it actually works, now, is someone who just hit 85 sees someone else with shiny purple gear, says "Hey, where did you get that?" The hardcore raider replies, "Heroic boss in Firelands." At this point the new 85 player asks in trade for a PuG so that he can also get these awesome purple pieces of gear. Upon walking into Firelands, finding out that he has no idea what any of the bosses do, or how to even play his class, he is extremely upset. He doesn't want to take the time to gear up or wipe to learn the fights. He makes a post on the Blizzard forums about how he'll quit the game because Blizzard made the gear too difficult to obtain. Blizzard goes "Oh man, this guy isn't going to pay us money anymore? We're releasing Diablo 3 soon, so we can't afford to lose any players that might keep paying us for WoW rather than quitting when D3 comes out. We better do what this guy is asking for and just hand him loot."


Well, ok, it's how it SHOULD work.

But anyways, as much as I agree with you on the idiotic QQ-fest this forum has degenerated into, I do not believe that is the reason for this massive nerf.

I've taken a look at our realm's progress on Wowheroes.
There's not one guild (at least last I checked, last week) that has downed heroic Ragnaros, and only 25 guilds total have killed the regular difficulty Ragnaros.
Our guild is at regular Ragnaros, and was working on him when this nerf got announced.

Are we bummed out? Yeah. Now we'll feel like a failure since I'm sure we'll have a much easier time downing regular Raggy.

However, I'm not gonna QQ hard on the forums about it.
Because I can completely understand the reasoning for nerfing regular FL.
If only 25 guilds have downed regular Ragnaros after these few month into the patch, perhaps they felt the challenge was unusually high. They're a game developer, but at the same time game administrators. They want a balance between rewards for high difficulty and availability of content to those who try. And with the number of current progression, we, as WoW player community, have failed to show enough progress in the last few month.

Of course, I disagree with heavy nerfing of heroic mode though. Heroics should be hard, and reserved for the highest challenge. But I can understand the regular mode nerf.
Go check out the guild progression list. It's pretty sad compared to what it was back in T11.
Edited by Kallen on 9/20/2011 2:12 PM PDT
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85 Human Priest
2280
too much nerf on marjodomo and ragnaros. they shouldnt be 25% but 15% instead.
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96 Pandaren Shaman
8150
Nowhere did they say they were going to nerf them like this.
.


Actually, blue did say that the nerfs were going to be incremental, implying either a set of bosses each week, or progressively higher nerfs over time. If this is the start, by 4.3 are the bosses just going to drop dead when you zone into firelands?


People keep saying this is what they said, but it really seems that it's a misinterpretation of "over the next couple of weeks" which could mean incremental or could mean floating deadline. If you find the actual quote, I'll be with you there. If not, then it seems like a lot of rage over nothing.
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Love the changes you are making Blizzard! I'm serious too. Our guild hit 1/7 heroic last week and hit 35% on Heroic Ryolith. Just happy to see the dev team want more people to see their content. If you haven't beat Heroic Rag after 3 months then you likely welcome the changes now as well, or at least should welcome them.

Looking forward to spending a few weeks on the heroic modes and enjoy the Heroic Ragnaros version. It looks like a lot of fun.

And 4.3 previews look very exciting. Thanks for still having the willingness to take big creative chances.

P.S. - Overhaul the Profession system! Points systems are boring! :)
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90 Tauren Druid
12100
@everyone posting on alts too chicken to post from main: your opinion totally matters...... when you post from a character that matters.

09/20/2011 12:46 PMPosted by Finlek
Is this serious? If you're referring to normal Rag, and I'm sure you are, the adds have like 150k hp. On my mage I can literally kill one (or at least get it sub 50%) before the next one even spawns, because of how nicely they spawn in the same spots every time. Could probably kill them with 1 stun and 1 dps on each side lol. You have to be kidding.


Yes, this is serious. 18-20 bodies controlling same number of adds that 5 bodies (plus tanks and healers popping damage increasing CDs) are required to control. reduced HP or not, do you not see the problem? if you don't, you are a 25 man raider.

Before the next one spawns? i have doubts on this as they all spawn within moments of each other. were talking about the same adds correct? I'm not taking about the flaming seed adds during phase two.

then in the 2nd transition it gets WORSE for 10 man raid groups, where now we have everything from the previous transition, PLUS two more adds that the tanks need to pick up, all while stunning adds and popping damage cds.

do you seriously not see the issue with this?

what I'm saying is that they want to slowly (supposedly they wanted to make this transition slowly. if this is the start of slowly, I'm shocked) make firelands easier. reducing the number of adds in the transitions by as little as one add would be a significant stress reduction for 10 man groups.


but then again, i wouldn't expect 25m guilds to understand, with your 3 Brezes, 2 extra pieces of loot on heroic, just because, your 18-20 dps to cover that DPSer who is only a raider cause he or she is the MT / GL / healers significant other, etc.

the only time 10 man has it easier than 25m is when the two words "Spread out" are mentioned.
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90 Orc Warlock
0
I'm glad. Most guilds who could have downed ragnaros have already done it by now. My guild struggled to get 4/7, but now we should at least be able to see rag before the next patch.

Also, remember what they did with icc? Towards the end, we were getting a 30% buff. They still have time to increment
Edited by Cortella on 9/20/2011 2:45 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Rogue
14095
It's official. "Heroic Mode" is no longer heroic.

Kinda saw this coming when they released half a raid tier in 4.2.

Desperation moves are desperate. Can't wait for a certain MMO competitor to show up so my guild will finally leave this place behind.


you have 1 HM kill, what are you talking about? Interesting that all those who talk, like me have 1HM. News flash if you like me, are only 1/7HM you very probably need the nerf


I don't NEED anything.

I don't NEED to kill Heroic Ragnaros. I don't even ENJOY heroic mode content - it's recycled content at the absolute worst - the same bosses you've seen die over and over again on Normal are barely enjoyable to down on a higher difficulty.

I WANT to hit some walls in raiding, so that we can work through them in an intelligent and fun manner.
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