In regards to 4.3 Tier and Restrictions

90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
Since the other thread is about to be post capped, what are the odds of the class restrictions being removed on tier pieces with the change to VP not being able to buy tier gear in 4.3?

With having to pray for an RNG raid drop, we're back in the boat of BC and early Wrath where you could go an entire tier without ever getting your bonuses completed. I agree with making the tier gear strictly from bosses, but this change concerns me, especially for 10m raiding, who are already at a massive RNG disadvantage.

So as stated above, what are the odds that we see the class restriction concept removed and just made general chest/legs/etc tokens drop?

This change to tier acquisition could either be the best thing or worst thing for 10m raiding based on that answer and design choice.
Edited by Bullettime on 9/19/2011 2:52 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
Welp. Gave it a shot. Here's to hoping the 10m gear up process doesn't get completely crapped on like it's appearing to be in 4.3.
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100 Orc Warlock
14470
Less RNG would be welcome. Like how I had Voidheart Crown until Archimonde finally dropped a conqueror token, or how about a month ago I finally got my T6 four piece (only about 3 1/2 years after I got the other 3 pieces lol).
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
That's what I'm concerned with.

Having the tier only available from bosses is a great concept to get back to. However, 10m is already subject to miserable loot RNG and this would be yet another issue with it.

Removing the class restrictions in turn for a generic chest token or w/e would correct a lot of this, but forcing 10m to pray to the RNG gods to collect even their basic tier set is asinine and will artificially gate the gear up process even more than it is now.

You get 1 token from a boss. Let's say legs. It's Paladin/Priest/Warlock. Well this is the 5th week it's dropped that and you only have 2 on that token. Now instead of the chest goin to someone to use for progression, it's going to the Priest for a stamina gemmed set to screw with people in Stormwind.

It's one thing when it's the upgrade to the Heroic tokens, but this change has the possibility to block 10m from completing set bonuses period for as long as RNG decides to frown on them. It actually punishes the raiders and not the 5m oriented players it's intended to. Now 5m players can't get their bonuses but based on RNG, neither can the raiders. It was a massive issue in BC and early Wrath that Blizzard appeared to wnt to correct.
Edited by Bullettime on 9/19/2011 3:12 PM PDT
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85 Troll Mage
9365
I agree with you, Bullet. Tier pieces should be changed to armor slot pieces instead of class specific. As a person that raids in a 25 man group, I saw Conquerer marks and Protector marks going to offspec before I ever got mine for main spec.

That would still be, what? 8 weeks of killing the same boss before everyone got their tier for mainspec in 25 man? And 10 weeks for 10 man? I guess that's assuming people actually need that slot for tier, but you get the point. Two to Two and a half months of killing the same boss sounds more than reasonable to get your tier instead of being at the mercy of the RNG and never getting it.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
I agree with you, Bullet. Tier pieces should be changed to armor slot pieces instead of class specific. As a person that raids in a 25 man group, I saw Conquerer marks and Protector marks going to offspec before I ever got mine for main spec.

That would still be, what? 8 weeks of killing the same boss before everyone got their tier for mainspec in 25 man? And 10 weeks for 10 man? I guess that's assuming people actually need that slot for tier, but you get the point. Two to Two and a half months of killing the same boss sounds more than reasonable to get your tier instead of being at the mercy of the RNG and never getting it.

9 full clears with the same 25m each week.
10 full clears with the same 10 each week.

Far better than not getting your piece until the next raid tier comes out, which was a sad reality in BC, early Wrath, and 10m heroics.
Edited by Bullettime on 9/19/2011 3:13 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12170
Also would be nice to know how many tokens will drop from 10-man :3 If it is just one AND there are class restrictions...*shudder*
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
09/19/2011 03:14 PMPosted by Arianenna
Also would be nice to know how many tokens will drop from 10-man :3 If it is just one AND there are class restrictions...*shudder*


That's the point and cause for the concern.

if there was 2 token drops with RNG, it'd be fine. But if there's 1 token drop with class restrictions then 10m can end up royally shafted for the duration of the tier.

1 token with no class restrictions would alleviate all of the issues that the tier change will be causing for raid guilds, especially in 10s.
Edited by Bullettime on 9/19/2011 3:16 PM PDT
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Hell they should simply remove class restrictions and make the token by any piece imo. That way it's never a wasted drop while it's content is current.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
09/19/2011 03:15 PMPosted by Lagstab
Hell they should simply remove class restrictions and make the token by any piece imo. That way it's never a wasted drop while it's content is current.


Well a generic raid token would keep some of the feel to owning the full set. Like getting the helm or shoulder token from Deathwing would make you stand out from the crowd.

Putting Gloves on Chromatus
Chest on Benedictus
Legs on General
Shoulders on Deathwing 1
Helm on Deathwing 2

All generic slot tokens

You would still be able to look at that character's tier and see what they've accomplished, but it also removes the chance of that coveted tier slot (especially when they're all drops now) is completely wasted for the 6th week in a row.
Edited by Bullettime on 9/19/2011 3:20 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
09/19/2011 03:19 PMPosted by Darkchickens
Hell they should simply remove class restrictions and make the token by any piece imo. That way it's never a wasted drop while it's content is current.

you should replace GC, ur already doinog a better job.


That wouldn't work out that great though because it would effectively take that feeling of accomplishment that they're trying to reinstill raiders with for obtaining the coveted tier helm from Deathwing 2.

Just removing class restrictions and having it be just a generic chest token would fix everything.
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12 Draenei Mage
0
I vote for generic tokens! My guild has only had one DK/Mage/Druid/Rogue token drop off Staghelm so far. It did take a few weeks to get him down. But, we have 5-6 players (depends if the rogue is on) to roll on it, and if I'm not mistaken it has a bit higher drop rate. In the meantime, our 2 pallies have MS/OS and our priest who rarely even raids has MS.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
It's the most logical solution to go that route as well Octo. If we have to pray to the RNG gods on every tier piece and every heroic tier piece, 10m is absolutely screwed. It's bad enough praying for heroic tokens, much less playing the loot lottery every single week for both reg and heroic gear.

Class restrictions need to go. There's no reason for them to even exist except to just cause frustration.
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Community Manager
Ultimately, we recognize that making these set pieces available only as raid drops leaves players much more subject to RNG drop rates/loot rolls, but we have a couple of plans to try and alleviate the sense of burden that stems from the randomness of token drops.

The way tier 13 pieces will be obtained in the 4.3 raid won't be unlike raids past, meaning players will still need to roll on multi-class set tokens. That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points.

In addition, due to tier pieces not being offered for Valor Points, another thing you'll see in patch 4.3 is a much wider array of desirable non-set loot (covering more slots than prior patches) available from the vendors, for those players who are unlucky with specific token drops, or who aren't interested in raiding -- although, once you get more details about the Raid Finder, we hope you'll find interest in having a go.

I felt this warranted its own response in a separate thread, but for those who missed it, here's my response to the original thread about tier 13 pieces being raid drops only:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3196022133?page=23#456

Keep in mind we do intend to allow tier 13 set pieces to drop for those using the upcoming Raid Finder. Similar to the difference between normal and Heroic versions of tier sets, the Raid Finder set will have a lower item level than the normal and Heroic counterparts.

Set pieces from all three difficulty levels can still be mixed and matched for the 2- and 4-piece bonuses.
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90 Draenei Shaman
0
Awesome news Zarhym, I'm totally pumped for 4.3.
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90 Orc Shaman
18715
My raid hasn't seen a Pally/Priest/Warlock token since the first week of Firelands. I literally cannot use another Protector helm token, however.
=/
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
I thank you greatly Zarhym.
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85 Troll Mage
7175
Bring back ToC25 trophy-style tokens for 10 mans, problem solved forever. Get on it.
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