In regards to 4.3 Tier and Restrictions

85 Human Paladin
5320
I have not had a 4 piece set this entire expansion.
/sad panda
I couldn't get it in naxx either.

Either my token does not drop or someone else wins it.
And I do raid. I raid 12 or more hours a week.

I liked knowing that if I put time in, learned encounters, and downed bosses I would get a reward. Oh well.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
09/20/2011 12:42 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
I dont see why people are saying this will kill off 25 mans, Cata itself didnt, and 25 mans still drop more loot proportinately compared to the number of the people in the raid than 10 mans do.


wowprogress.com says differently.

In ICC ~20% of raiders only did 10 mans.

In caty it is now ~20% of raiders only doing 25s

~900,000 raid spots were lost in the change (although we have to allow for the year of ICC being up meaning many guilds reformed in that time, and caty hasn't even been out that long yet.

And I am assuming wowprogress.com parses the WoL site as there are no 10/25 man distinctions on the WoW armory stats page any more.

But, it is safe to say 25 mans have been killed off.

But, we can't say if this is because people always preferred 10s but did 25s for superior gear, or it is because 10s are easier now (even if it is just the fact you get 10 players resed and buffed faster than 25 so you get more attempts) and people are taking the easy route to the same loot.

The problem LFR brings is whether the shift to easier 10 mans is just because they are easier, regardless of loot ilevel, which means LFR will start taking players out of 10 man raids. Or if the better loot will save 10s.
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85 Orc Shaman
6310
09/20/2011 09:49 AMPosted by Mescyn


i.e., one more nail in the coffin of 25-player raids.


If the only way 25m can survive is by forcing people who don't want to raid 25m content to raid it due to significant gearing advantages, then maybe it needs to die.


I would say the same for raiding in general: if Blizzard removed the imbalanced incentives, stopped trying to force everyone into raiding as the only way to advance characters, then maybe raiding would take a place as a fun thing to do, and not the only game in town.

Stop subsidizing raids and forcing people to raid as the only path to advancement.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16835



If the only way 25m can survive is by forcing people who don't want to raid 25m content to raid it due to significant gearing advantages, then maybe it needs to die.


I would say the same for raiding in general: if Blizzard removed the imbalanced incentives, stopped trying to force everyone into raiding as the only way to advance characters, then maybe raiding would take a place as a fun thing to do, and not the only game in town.

Stop subsidizing raids and forcing people to raid as the only path to advancement.


And why wouldn't you need to raid? Raiding and group coordination is the way to advance the story elements and have the unnamed heroes overcome all odds to save the planet. It's a defining element of MMORPG games.

If Blizzard let players kill Deathwing in a 5m or solo, you can bet that most raiders would just leave.

You're also forgetting the "Scenario" gameplay that was in the works that we just haven't seen yet that appears to be in between solo play and heroics/raiding.
Edited by Bullettime on 9/20/2011 4:18 PM PDT
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85 Orc Shaman
6310
I'm genuinely curious, this is the first time I've seen "scenario" gameplay mentioned, and I read the fansites and the homepage here. I didn't forget, I've just never heard of it. Got a link or any more info about it?
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90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
09/29/2011 11:57 AMPosted by Skjellyfetti


Still waiting for clarification of what this means. Can we get some details on the "tweaking" please?


Hey Zar! Did you forget about us? We're eagerly awaiting the details on how the token drop rate is being "tweaked" for 10mans in 4.3. Please enlighten us. Pretty please?


The PTR is up, I guess we will find out pretty soon anyway. And generally blizzard often find it better to let things like this loose on the public and let them work out the mechanics than put up a blue post and watch the forums descend into a month of QQ with people breaking down the post line by line to try to uncover the true meaning of it.
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85 Undead Warlock
10225
This is another AWFUL attempt to make competent players carry the regular scrub that dont know WTF they do.

As far as I see, Blizzard expect us to gear up the base pop(bads), by all means I dont consider myself a Hard-Core player, or a GREAT player, but Im not a moron, and is more than frustrating several steps that Blizz did in Cata.

First, not beeing able to cap valor(in the firs weeks of FL) if you were in a 10m guild without dealing with moronics players in ZA/ZG, and now forcing us(if we want to gear up fast to help our guild progress) to deal with TONS of BADDIES on crappy gear, people that dont know how to move away from fire on a 25m COMP to get tier... and even so, is going to be crapp tier.

I dont like 25m, I just dont, I dont like at all the random tool, I raid to have fun with my friends and people that I know, I know what they can do, and what I can expect. The LFG crap is a russian rulet, and we dont even can kick all the scrubs that just follow you or die on every single pull.

Can you Imagine a LFR, with those baddies... really, the worst thing ever.

I think this expansion is going to be my last one, I wanna kill Deathwing with my friends/guildies... since I already payed the game, but this crap we have to deal from Blizz is just to much for me.

FYI blizz, with all the players I talked about the LFR tool said to me, NO WAY IN HELL IM GOING TO SUFFER THE SELF TORTURE of "raiding" with baddies.
Edited by Torturador on 9/29/2011 1:10 PM PDT
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85 Night Elf Druid
2595
Would be nice if they reverted back to the AQ40 system. In AQ40 the tokens were divided into two different types instead of three, and one of each would always drop off the bosses that have them.
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85 Tauren Druid
8255
09/19/2011 04:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
Keep in mind we do intend to allow tier 13 set pieces to drop for those using the upcoming Raid Finder. Similar to the difference between normal and Heroic versions of tier sets, the Raid Finder set will have a lower item level than the normal and Heroic counterparts.


This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would you reward random teams of raiders less than a regular group? The difficulty of coordinating random people is far higher than organizing a normal weekly group of players. PUG raids invevitably fall prey to the worst kind of elitism, entitlement, dropped players, and undergeared idiots that WoW has to offer, and that's really saying something. On top of that, it will also suffer from lesser loot levels?

Why is there a tank shortage in heroic 5-mans and za/zg? Because most of the good tanks have long since geared up and moved on. That leaves alts and bads. So you add an incentive to them with the extra bag of loot for needed roles. I don't think the call to arms worked well, but it did work to a degree. The same concept applies to the LFR, except you're giving tanks and healers LESS of a reason to use it by making loot levels worse, and putting them in a terrible environment as well!

Entry level raid-geared players in a guild have the advantage of guildies who understand and are likely also learning the fight and are interested in progression, even at the cost of multiple wipes. PUGs do not have this tolerance. They expect the run to go perfectly, and gear to fall in their laps, and to expect to be carried to it while they abuse the system to get into the raid in blues and greens.

Blizz, you want people to put up with all that for less reward than just playing with their friends and getting better loot while they're at it?

I very much disagree with this choice by blizzard. I think its a terrible idea if they really want people to use the raidfinder. Otherwise I see it going the way of the built in voice chat for blizz(you know, the one that no one uses.....)
Edited by Cowdog on 9/29/2011 2:59 PM PDT
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85 Tauren Druid
8255
am i the only one concerned that the LFR gear will be a lower level then "normal" raid gear? if i am expected to play with people i do not know with methods we have not practiced, and probably spend 20 minutes just trying to get everyone on vent, and actually succeed then i think we deserve at least the equal gear...

and are LFR going to continue to give retarded raidlocks so that later in the week i cannot join my guild in their "normal" run?


See the post right above yours. :)
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90 Human Paladin
9685
I wish they'd give us their logic behind the decision to keep the tier tokens so difficult to get by subjecting them to multiple RNG factors. You have to hope your class drops then hope you win the roll.

8 Nef Kills, 6 Cho'gall kills and 4 Al'Akir kills and I've seen 3 Paladin class head tokens drop and 1 Paladin class shoulder token drop.

That means out of 18 boss kills I've only received 1 proper token. How many times do I have to kill these jerks even going into two tiers later? And lots of people have it worse than me!
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62 Night Elf Hunter
690
Vanquisher tier 13 shoulder token has dropped 6 weeks in a row for my guild (3 vanquisher helm). the druid in our guild no longer needed anymore gear so he up and left. we're still trying to gear our other raiders. what are we as a guild suppose to do now ?
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15 Goblin Shaman
50
Any word on what kinda "tweak" is put in place to improve the loot distribution for 10-person raid, if at all? There is a discussion on PTR (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3530215394?page=11) but since 4.3 is so close to be released, not sure if anything has been done yet?
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90 Worgen Warlock
15020
An idea for you blizzard,

Put in a token exchanger, even an unfair rate like x3 protector for x1 conqueror would help A TON.
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85 Draenei Paladin
2225
An idea for you blizzard,

Put in a token exchanger, even an unfair rate like x3 protector for x1 conqueror would help A TON.
Or, or or...here me out here.

They drop generic tokens for each item slot. Then the player that needs it "or wins" can exchange it for gear regardless of their class.
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