In regards to 4.3 Tier and Restrictions

100 Orc Rogue
14170
I hope this means 2 tokens for 10 mans. It's bad enough my guild group has half our raid on 1 token.
Edited by Xtraprolifik on 9/19/2011 4:21 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
09/19/2011 04:20 PMPosted by Xtraprolifik
I hope this means 2 tokens for 10 mans. It's bad enough we got half our raid on 1 token.


That's what I got out of it.

Zarhym, you're now my favorite floating skull thing.
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100 Draenei Paladin
17605
Ultimately, we recognize that making these set pieces available only as raid drops leaves players much more subject to RNG drop rates/loot rolls, but we have a couple of plans to try and alleviate the sense of burden that stems from the randomness of token drops.

The way tier 13 pieces will be obtained in the 4.3 raid won't be unlike raids past, meaning players will still need to roll on multi-class set tokens. That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points.

In addition, due to tier pieces not being offered for Valor Points, another thing you'll see in patch 4.3 is a much wider array of desirable non-set loot (covering more slots than prior patches) available from the vendors, for those players who are unlucky with specific token drops, or who aren't interested in raiding -- although, once you get more details about the Raid Finder, we hope you'll find interest in having a go.

I felt this warranted its own response in a separate thread, but for those who missed it, here's my response to the original thread about tier 13 pieces being raid drops only:



Which is basically going to force people into the LFR system in order to gear up and obtain their Tier in the quickest and most efficient way possible to benefit their raid group.

So not only will I have to go through a normal raid week, but squeeze in a LFR on the side. This goes directly against your stated goals for raiding in Cata when you said you thought players felt "forced" to do 10 and 25 man raiding in Wrath to not be at a disadvantage.

A complete contradiction, I honestly and truthfully don't know what to expect from Blizzard going patch to patch anymore.

It just looks like away for you to force people into the LFR system and prolong the lifespan of the content.

I support Tier Tokens dropping from raids only to an extent, especially since super casual players will still have a chance at it through the LFR, but these tokens need to have their class restrictions removed or you're just enforcing torture and burn out.

People will just stop caring.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
SWC
11255
sigh more class restricted tokens. I wish we could dislike blue posts :(
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
09/19/2011 04:21 PMPosted by Tuesday
sigh more class restricted tokens. I wish we could dislike blue posts :(


The restriction won't be as bad if they're tweaking the drop rates of tokens. The main issue would have been 1 token with class restrictions.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7425
Love it!!!!!!
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45 Human Warlock
4855
Zarhym,

If I may ask, what is the point of class restriction on tokens? Removing the class restrictions would be the best move forward because it addresses the problems of people feeling forced to run LFR and reg raids.
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85 Human Paladin
5075
09/19/2011 04:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points.


The final death blow to 25m raiding. Got more gear faster, they said. There will be proportional damage/healing requirements, they said. You'll be able to craft your legendary faster, they said.

Not that I really care, I just find it comical. Log in, raid, log out.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8995
When will there be more information about the raid finder?
Edited by Wasselin on 9/19/2011 4:26 PM PDT
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36 Blood Elf Mage
4780
Ultimately, we recognize that making these set pieces available only as raid drops leaves players much more subject to RNG drop rates/loot rolls, but we have a couple of plans to try and alleviate the sense of burden that stems from the randomness of token drops.

The way tier 13 pieces will be obtained in the 4.3 raid won't be unlike raids past, meaning players will still need to roll on multi-class set tokens. That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points.

In addition, due to tier pieces not being offered for Valor Points, another thing you'll see in patch 4.3 is a much wider array of desirable non-set loot (covering more slots than prior patches) available from the vendors, for those players who are unlucky with specific token drops, or who aren't interested in raiding -- although, once you get more details about the Raid Finder, we hope you'll find interest in having a go.

I felt this warranted its own response in a separate thread, but for those who missed it, here's my response to the original thread about tier 13 pieces being raid drops only:

<a href="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3196022133?page=23#456">http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3196022133?page=23#456</a>

Keep in mind we do intend to allow tier 13 set pieces to drop for those using the upcoming Raid Finder. Similar to the difference between normal and Heroic versions of tier sets, the Raid Finder set will have a lower item level than the normal and Heroic counterparts.

Set pieces from all three difficulty levels can still be mixed and matched for the 2- and 4-piece bonuses.


"once you get more details about the Raid Finder, we hope you'll find interest in having a go"

And these details will be coming tomorrow, yes? I mean, y'all wouldn't leave us hanging.
Edited by Goatcaller on 9/19/2011 4:28 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
09/19/2011 04:25 PMPosted by Goldish
That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points.


The final death blow to 25m raiding. Got more gear faster, they said. There will be proportional damage/healing requirements, they said. You'll be able to craft your legendary faster, they said.

Not that I really care, I just find it comical. Log in, raid, log out.


Because 10m being completely bent over by RNG when every single tier piece, even reg, is a boss drop is fine?

Look at T11 and 12 HM token acquisition rates. 10m has been royally screwed in HM gearing this xpac so far. This would have been a substantial blow to 10m had nothing been done.
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100 Draenei Paladin
17605
09/19/2011 04:25 PMPosted by Boxerone
addresses the problems of people feeling forced to run LFR and reg raids.


Except I don't think they see that as a problem, I think that's what they intend to force the population to do.
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45 Goblin Warlock
170
All I can hope for is that the purchasable valor gear is worth using, current the ONLY gear worth buying with valor is tier for my class so if this goes through and there isn't properly itemized gear I'll have nothing to do with valor points except sell the BoE piece.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7140
09/19/2011 04:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
In addition, due to tier pieces not being offered for Valor Points, another thing you'll see in patch 4.3 is a much wider array of desirable non-set loot (covering more slots than prior patches) available from the vendors, for those players who are unlucky with specific token drops, or who aren't interested in raiding -- although, once you get more details about the Raid Finder, we hope you'll find interest in having a go.


Or those screwed by guild changes and unwilling to join a guild where the guild master doesn't even know who you are.
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90 Gnome Warlock
1785
09/19/2011 04:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
once you get more details about the Raid Finder, we hope you'll find interest in having a go.


The only reason a large number of people will be in the LFR is to get access to their tier because 10s have a terrible loot distribution model with regards to loot and tokens. Having half a loot table go to tokens for a class that may not even be in a raid comp isn't reasonable, and why having at least the 2p bonus accessible through the vendors made sense.

All you're plans do is force 10's to run the LFR in order to get their tokens, and there's not evena guarantee that the raid doing all of the work will get the pieces they need because of the way NbG works for pugs.
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11 Dwarf Priest
40
09/19/2011 04:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
The way tier 13 pieces will be obtained in the 4.3 raid won't be unlike raids past, meaning players will still need to roll on multi-class set tokens. That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points.

And the 25 man death spiral continues.

Slightly imbalanced drop rates between the formats was the nod that Blizzard gave to 25 mans during Cata's beta in acknowledgment of the organizational complexity of running a larger guild.

Are you finally going to stick a fork in 25 man raiding in the next expansion?
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90 Gnome Warlock
1785
Zarhym,

If I may ask, what is the point of class restriction on tokens? Removing the class restrictions would be the best move forward because it addresses the problems of people feeling forced to run LFR and reg raids.


They need raiders in the LFR or it won't work. More than anything that's the reason for this change from the vendor system to the original Classic/TBC model that no one actually liked.
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09/19/2011 04:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points.


As in, "my raid has nobody on the protector token, so protector doesn't drop" or "my raid has nobody on protector, protector is now only a 10% drop chance"?
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87 Blood Elf Priest
12610
09/19/2011 04:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points.

Can you clarify this?
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