To all those that downed Rag

90 Human Death Knight
8460
Good luck on heroics this week.

Also for the ones that have already progressed, please feel free to leave any useful tips and tricks for the fights.
Edited by Theroz on 9/27/2011 10:38 AM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
5820
heres some tanking tips.... stand there smash buttons dont die w8 to be carried by ur heals and dps. what a hard life tanks have eh?
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90 Human Paladin
9050
I'm enigmaz's personal carrier, at your service.


On Shannox, remember to kite Shannox when Riplimb is about to return the spear. You'll never fail to reset the tanks' stacks that way and you can use the traps on rageface instead.


For the rest... require raid members to come with an understanding of all the fights. On normal, it's not really necessary (I'll be honest, I only watched videos for rag). I know many players expect the raid leader to learn the fight and then explain it. That's not something you want to do on heroic. It'll let you get more pulls in, and you won't have depressing almost kills that someone wiped the raid on from not paying attention to the explanations. Don't be "that one guy".
Edited by Janaire on 9/27/2011 4:06 PM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
9940
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Heroic Shannox:
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Overall Difficulty: 1/10
Tank Difficulty Ratio = 4/10 (only a 4 because of learning to kite)
Healer Difficulty Ratio = 1/10
Dps Difficulty Ratio = 1/10 (just need 1 good dps to break facerage)

Note: If you are tanking Shannox and have your A and D keys set to turn instead of strafe, you'll need to change that in order to use our strategy.


  • Tank Shannox and Riplimb ~60-70 yards apart.

  • Everytime Shannox begins to throw the spear, call it out over vent and have the Riplimb tank strafe towards Shannox as fast as possible.

  • Slow Riplimb as soon as he turns around and starts running to pick up the spear (the tank on him should be able to do this).

  • When Riplimb has the spear and is ~25 yards away from returning it to Shannox, have the tank on Shannox start strafing backwards at full running speed. When doing this, the tank should make sure he/she can still attack the boss so they know their back is not turned.

  • Shortly after beginning to strafe, the Shannox tank should be slowly angling their toon so that they start making a circle back around to where the dps and healers are standing so they don't get too far away. Continue strafing as long as necessary for the dubuff to fall off the Riplimb tank.

  • After each kiting of Shannox, it's a good idea to rotate where you are tanking Shannox and riplimb to avoid too many traps building up around the dps.

  • During this whole time the dps just need to be trapping Rageface and moving away from wherever he is trapped so they have time to kite him and get the stacks to fall off.



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Heroic Rhyolith:
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Overall Difficulty: 3/10
Tank Difficulty Ratio = 2/10
Healer Difficulty Ratio = 8/10
Dps Difficulty Ratio = 3/10 (just gotta avoid firelines and attack the correct leg)


  • Do it almost exactly as it's done on normal except with the following changes listed below.

  • On normal you can pretty much get away with no dps on the legs except for the drivers, on heroic you will want to make sure your non-driver dps are assigned as evenly as possible to the legs and that they are attacking the legs (evenly so as not to cause the drivers problems!) as often as they can whenever they aren't on sparks or fragments.

  • Ignore the slimes except for slowing them. You do not need to kill them, it's a waste of dps. If you have a frost dk that is driving, have him turn and apply Chillblains to the slimes regularly, if you have a hunter have him throw down traps to slow them, boomkins can typhoon if they get close, etc.

  • In heroic, killing dormant volcanoes causes Rhyo to gain a 5% damage buff for each one he walks over, so don't try and kill them. However, it's FAR more important to dispatch the active ones as quick as possible so ALWAYS make a straight bee-line for the active ones when driving. It doesn't matter if there are 5 dormant volcanoes directly between you and the active one, always go straight for the active one and never try to maneuver around inactives to get there.

  • Just like in normal, it's important to avoid the Magma Flow lines. :)

  • When Rhyo gets down to around 45%, pop Hero/bloodlust and have all dps switch to the same leg and just burn him into P2.

  • In P2, do everything you normally would from normal mode. There will be laser beams, but don't let them freak you out, you can mostly ignore them.
Edited by Ellinore on 10/5/2011 10:57 AM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
9940
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Heroic Alysrazor
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Overall Difficulty: 4/10
Tank Difficulty Ratio = 7/10
Healer Difficulty Ratio = 4/10
Dps Difficulty Ratio = 1/10


  • If you can do this fight on normal, you shouldn't have too much trouble doing it on heroic now after the nerfs. There's really only 3 simple differences.

  • The fight starts just like it does on normal mode, except that the Hatchlings will come out sooner than you are used to on normal. These hatchlings have less health than their normal mode counterparts, and also you will get more of them throughout the fight (3 sets per ground phase if my memory serves me right). This is the first important difference between normal and heroic.

  • The second big difference between normal and heroic is that at the same time that the Hatchlings are spawning from their eggs, a meteor rock will drop down in the middle of the room and start rolling. A ranged class with high burst (usually hunters are used) needs to "kill" this meteor as fast as possible. They can be slowed, so hunters usually put a frost trap down where it spawns. Once "killed" this meteor will stop rolling. You may, depending on your dps, need to assign a second ranged to help stop these fast.

  • The Initiates are stunable now (yes, even on heroic), which pretty much makes dealing with them a joke. Just have your dps deal with them like they normally would.

  • Before you get to where the third important difference on heroic comes into play, you will get a 2nd meteor that drops in the center of the room again. Whether or not to kill this one is optional, but I'd recommend it as you risk trouble if you don't.

  • The 3rd important mechanic on heroic is Firestorm. Keep an eye on your DBM/Bigwigs timers and when Firestorm is close, have everyone start moving towards one of the big meteors you killed earlier. Once at the meteor, everyone needs to look up in the sky and make sure that the meteor is BETWEEN THEM AND THE BOSS. There is wind blowing during this stage, but the wind is irrelevant; you need to be on the side of the meteor that is opposite where the boss is in the sky.

  • The rest of the mechanics are exactly the same.
Edited by Ellinore on 10/1/2011 12:39 PM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
9940
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Heroic Baleroc
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Overall Difficulty: 5/10
Tank Difficulty Ratio = 5/10 (Smart use of CDs needed)
Healer Difficulty Ratio = 5/10 (Smart use of Mana CDs needed. Must understand mechanics.)
Dps Difficulty Ratio = 5/10 (Must avoid running into each other, watch their timers, spot shard placement, and communicate on vent effectively.)

  • Post-Nerf if you do this fight with 1 tank, 2 healers, and 7 dps you will need ~14k dps from the tank and ~22k (average) from the 7 dps to kill this boss before the enrage. If you can't pull those kind of numbers on normal mode with this setup, it's probably not worth trying on heroic.

  • This fight is all about using Vent or Mumble effectively. You have to change things on the fly during the fight and communication is going to be key.

  • The way we do it is we assign 5 of the dps to shard duty. These 5 are given a rotation order and told to remember who is before them in the rotation.

  • If the shard rotation is Player 1 > Player 2 > Player 3 > Player 4 > Player 5, it's very important that player 3 remembers they are always after player #2, and player 1 that they are always after player #5, etc.

  • For a real world example, if the rotation is Arghmatey > Portrero > Ellinore > Hate > Orisars, I have to remember that I am always after Port, Hate has to remember he is always after me, etc.

  • For the first shard have your Spriest, warrior, whatever, take the entire shard by themselves. Both healers will want to switch to healing this person when the person is at 12 stacks, rotate CDs to keep them alive from 13-18, and then have the person pop their best CD at the end. For Spriests, they need to pop Dispersion at 19 stacks.

  • During this time on the first shard, the healers need to be spamming their fastest heals to build a lot of healing stacks and the tank needs to pop all his CDs to keep himself alive without either of the healers healing him.

  • After the first shard, one of the healers stays on the tank for the 2nd and 3rd shard, after which point the healers switch for the next two.

  • After Player 1 takes the entire first shard, Player 2 goes first on the second shard, followed by Player 3 and Player 4 respectively. Player 2 and Player 3 both go to 8 stacks, and player 4 takes the remaining 9 until the shard goes away. So Player 2 > Player 3 > Player 4.

  • At the start of the 3rd shard, the rotation will be Player 5 > Player 1 > Player 2. See how it rotated back around from player 5 to player 1 again? This can be confusing to figure out the whole thing on the fly, but as long as everyone remembers who goes before them in the rotation, it shouldn't be any problem.

  • Now you might be wondering why not just use (for simplicity's sake) 6 people and have two sets of 3 people for the shards, rather than a 5 man rotation where it's a different 3 people on the shard each time? Good question! The answer has to do with the main mechanic of the fight which is the debuff the shards leave on you afterwards.

  • Throughout the fight, the game will link two random people together and those two people have 8 seconds to run to each other or else they blow up the raid. The sucky part is, if one of the linked people has the debuff, he's going to give it to the other person. If both of the people linked have the debuff, their debuff timers are probably going to get refreshed when they run together. This simple mechanic makes any pre-planned shard rotation impossible.

  • In addition to people spreading and refreshing the debuff when linked together, accidentally running into contact with another player at any point during the fight will do the same thing (I.E. spread the debuff or refresh debuff timers). Because of this, the melee should try and make full use of the boss' large hitbox and also feel free to run under the boss' legs to move from one side of Bal to the other.

  • If at any point during the fight someone who is supposed to take the shard next knows their debuff isn't going to fall off in time, they need to call it out over Vent and have one of the 2 backups who weren't assigned to the regular rotation come in and take their spot on the shard. THIS is the advantage of having a 5 man shard rotation over a 6 man, because then you can do 3 people per shard and still have 2 backups for when the debuff gets spread. If you have enough dps that you feel you want to 2 tank, or 3 heal the fight, then you'll probably have to do 2 people per shard which is doable, just more risky.

  • If you have the dps needed, and can master the Vent communication necessary to adapt to the changes this encounter throws at you on the fly, then you can count this kill in the bag.
Edited by Ellinore on 9/28/2011 2:00 PM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
9940
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Heroic Domo
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Overall Difficulty: 2/10
Tank Difficulty Ratio = 5/10 (gotta pick up clones, rotate on orbs, rotate CDs, and hopefully call out jumps.)
Healer Difficulty Ratio = 2/10 (Gotta heal while being ready to move and keeping people in range.)
Dps Difficulty Ratio = 2/10 (People have to rotate on orbs and avoid as much damage as possible to keep their buff.)

  • The way we do this fight is never letting him stay in scorpion to do scythes except for in the very beginning. The reason we do it this way is because it's easier and you get a buff called Concentration that increases your damage/healing when you yourself don't take any damage. If everyone in the raid gets hit by a scythe, then obviously that's damage taken and everyone he hits will lose their Concentration buff.

  • Start him out in Scorpion and take 5-7 Scythes just to buy yourself time to hopefully cut off an extra Orb phase before you kill him (Orb phases are the only kinda difficult part). For this initial part, have 1 of your healers, and your 2 top dps stand behind the boss so they don't get hit by the scythe and gain the Concentration buff.

  • After the 7th scythe or whatever, everyone needs to spread so he goes cat, and then pull him back to the center of the platform. It's important during this part that the ranged all spread out on the SAME HALF of the platform (I.E. like everyone goes to either the right half or the left half of the platform). The reason why is that when you don't take scythes from scorpion and keep him in cat, you have to deal with the fire pools staying up on the platform through the next cat phase and you don't want to have them spread out everywhere at random.

  • Have the melee kill the clones, and have the ranged try their best to be on the move when the boss is about to jump so that they can avoid taking any ticks from the fire if they get jumped on and thus keep their buff.

  • As he makes his 7th leap, everyone runs in and stacks to turn him back into scorpion. Stay stacked until he is at 55-70 energy then all run out again to turn him back into cat before he does any scythes (run out at 70 energy at the start, later in the fight when he's gaining energy faster, run out at 55-60 to be safe). If the ranged dps had all gone to the right half of the platform during the first spread, then the right half of the platform should be full of fire and you will need to have all the ranged spread out on the left side of the platform this time.

  • This is repeated throughout the whole fight. Just keep stacking on every 7th leap and running out before he does any scythes to turn him back into cat. One side of the platform should be full of fire, and one side should be clear of it each time you need to spread.

  • People will still need to be aware of their Searing Seeds debuff as long as they are near other people. After you spread out and turn him back into cat, this is mostly only something melee have to pay attention to as the ranged should already be spread out.

  • When the orbs come out, have your tank + lowest dps melee rotate taking the closest Orb with each going to 4 stacks before switching places. Have 2 ranged assigned to rotate on whichever Orb is furthest from the tank.

  • Rinse and repeat until dead.
Edited by Ellinore on 10/1/2011 1:14 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Warrior
11150
Ellinore just might be the most constructive poster in the history of battle.net
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90 Human Paladin
9050
09/28/2011 03:44 PMPosted by Mattick
Ellinore just might be the most constructive poster in the history of battle.net

Which is good considering I'm the most lazy poster (that actually posts) in the history of battle.net.

We balance each other out.
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90 Human Death Knight
8460
Thanks Ellinore info is much appreciated.

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90 Human Death Knight
9940
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Heroic Beth'tilac
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Overall Difficulty: 7/10
Tank Difficulty Ratio = 4/10
Healer Difficulty Ratio = 10/10
Dps Difficulty Ratio = 7/10

Alright, having now downed this boss I can rate it and give my tips.


  • This fight is a pretty huge gear check for healers. So unless your healers are fairly well geared and you feel they are strong players, this fight is going to be extremely hard. Here's the healing Perspective and ourselves had to do to down this boss...

    Perspective (3 healed, fight length: 6:54)
    20800.2k HPS - Nêkromantik
    18575.4k HPS - Shøckådin
    17259.1k HPS - Narr

    Amorphous (3 healed, fight length: 7:08)
    19284.1k HPS - Volios
    17933.2k HPS - Janaire
    13286.6k HPS - Arghhmatey

    So unless you have healers that can sustain those kind of HPS numbers for 7 full minutes, this boss is probably not going to die for you. That's probably the biggest issue with this fight is just the raw amount of healing required.

  • Compared to the normal version of this encounter there is a lot more damage coming out, but only two new mechanics I can think of that you need to be aware of. The first new mechanic are spiders that come out near the Spiderlings called Broodlings, and the second mechanic is that the hanging Spinners will cast stuns on you if you don't taunt them down and kill them.

  • The Broodlings will target a random raid member and try to run into them upon whence they will explode and leave a deadly pile of poison on the ground. It is important that these Broodlings NOT reach wherever the raid is stacking. You can prevent this by having 2 people kill the Spiderlings and intercept the Broodlings when they come out. They do this by just running into the Broodling before he reaches his destination.

  • The the next important thing is the Spinners. On heroic the spinners really do need to be dealt with quickly. However, if you have all your dps running around taunting down Spinners and not stacking up after they do so, then you will run into problems. It's important for everyone to stay stacked as much as possible in the same spot by the tank who is on the drone. This will make it so the Broodlings are always running to the same area as well as allow for cleaves and AoE which helps down all the adds in a timely manor.

  • Worth another mention that the dps shouldn't be touching or worrying about the drone until the spinners are dealt with!

  • So basically if your healers can put out the insane healing required, you have a couple dps that can kill the Spinderlings and stop the Broodlings from reaching the raid, your dps can watch where they are standing so they are not in poison or away from the stack point, and your tanks are decently geared... then you should be able to kill this boss. This boss is definitely the biggest gear check of the first 6 heroic bosses though.
Edited by Ellinore on 10/1/2011 12:55 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
9050
I just realized we didn't even have replenishment on our kill. No wonder.

Also, no hero. We pro. lolnerfs.



Edit for token wtf is a healing trinket comment.
Edited by Janaire on 10/1/2011 12:45 AM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
9940
Just want to let anyone who cares know that I had to make an edit to our Heroic Shannox strat. It seems that blizz did some sort of stealth change to the way Dogged Determination works without saying anything. Strafing to the side like I used to do and originally said to do in our strat on here, no longer works well.

I changed that sentence to say the following:
"When Riplimb has the spear and is ~25 yards away from returning it to Shannox, have the tank on Shannox start strafing **backwards** at full running speed."

If you run straight backwards away from the direction Riplimb is running at you, you can still get him chasing Shannox and unable to return the spear. After you see that Rip is trying to catch Shannox and unable to return it, then you can start making a big loop back around to where the dps are standing while kiting the boss.
Edited by Ellinore on 10/4/2011 10:52 PM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
9940
Rhyolith Edit:

After seeing Reborn Rage's and DTK's logs on this boss I remembered some additional things that are important and decided to bump this boss' difficulty rating up from 2/10 to 3/10, making it the 3rd easiest boss after Shannox and Domo in my opinion. Since I'm at the character limit on the Shannox/Rhyo post, I'll add the additions here.


    Heroic Rhyolith Additional Considerations:

    These following things I left out of my original description on how to do this boss because they were part of our Normal mode strategy and not specific to heroic, however they are important so I'm adding them here in-case other guilds don't already do this from normal.

  • When a Spark spawns, it's important that any healers or dps within melee range of it move away. If you fail to move away from it immediately before it activates, there's a high possibility it will smack you for 30-80k damage before the tank is able to pick it up. Our guild has had taunts lag even though the tank pressed the button before the Spark started attacking (or seemingly did) and had it result in a healer/dps death. If everyone just takes a few steps away though, then this isn't an issue.

  • It's important that the healers and dps stack up together. However, this stack point needs to be mobile, so markers on the ground is not a good option. The way our guild designates a stack point is by putting the Blue Square marker on the head of one of the dps/healers and using them as the stack point. That way the stack can move depending on where Rhyo is on the platform and can move to adjust for the locations of Magma Flow lines. Stacking allows for easier AoE on the fragments and AoE heals.

  • It's important that the tank pull the Spark away from the dps/healer stack point (obviously), but they will need to adjust where they tank the Spark to make sure they stay in range of the healers throughout the fight. After the Spark is dead, the tank should be running in and stacking with the rest of the non-driver dps and healers to help with the Fragments and take their aggro.
Edited by Ellinore on 10/5/2011 10:54 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
9050
FYI, the reason the stack point needs to remain mobile is not just because rhyolith is moving (otherwise you could, theoretically, stay middle). It's due to the fact that you don't want the raid positioned too close to craters and you all need to move if a spark spawns in the group.


I think our guild has gotten used to stacking on Volios for everything now. Someone facepulled Rhyo while people were still buffing up, so we had no square but were still stacked. <3 guild. Except facepullers. </3.
Edited by Janaire on 10/5/2011 1:25 PM PDT
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85 Draenei Priest
11360
At least I know I am good for something...

As for my contribution...

Heroic Ragnaros

Overall difficulty compared to the other six bosses: 500000000/10

Healing: Pretend you're Jesus.

DPS: Dee pee ess your !@#$ off.

Tanking: Bring healers that are Jesus.

General: Don't stand in fire, it burns.
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90 Human Death Knight
9940
lol. Revising all strats to simply say "Be Jesus".

But yeah, Heroic Rag is 3x as hard as any other heroic boss. Or at least that's how it seems so far.
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85 Worgen Warlock
7915
My advice for Rag: don't show up.
Edited by Hate on 10/6/2011 9:52 AM PDT
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