Heirlooms

90 Goblin Hunter
8465
I am not entirely sure where to put this, so I will post it here and hope it gets moved to the appropriate forum.

On the subject of people wanting to transfer BoA-Heirloom items to other servers without having to pay transfer fees, why not just do something like this (Which would save a lot of coding time I would think):

Currently how the system works, is you purchase an item from the heirloom vendor with Justice Points and you have access to that item on that server only unless of course you transfer a character with it.

Why not make it so when you purchase an item, you aren't buying the item right then and there, but you are "unlocking" it for the account. You would have a vendor in each major city that then sells the BoA items (that have been unlocked) to new characters on any server for that account for free/1c so players may join their friends on other servers with accelerated leveling (because if we own BoA items we don't want to level slowly, ever) without having to worry about paying $25 every time a friend plays on another server.

This presumably wouldn't put any excess load on the character database since there is already a cap of 50 characters per account.

This would save the dev team from having to write code to link every server in a global mailing service.

What do others think?

Just my $0.02
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8990
They don't do cross-realm BOA transfers because people wouldn't do as many 'paid' transfers if they did.

People would just go send their Heirlooms to a new server and level new toons.

Which diminishes the number of active 85s.

Mostly though, they prefer that people pay for transfers rather than making it free.

It's all about the money.
100 Night Elf Druid
7960
They don't do cross-realm BOA transfers because people wouldn't do as many 'paid' transfers if they did.

People would just go send their Heirlooms to a new server and level new toons.

Which diminishes the number of active 85s.

Mostly though, they prefer that people pay for transfers rather than making it free.

It's all about the money.
Considering Blizzard has said absolutely nothing about any kind of heirloom transfer system, I'd say that what you said is nothing more the gross exaggeration and generalization.

Mr. OP, Blizzard already has the solution. Last I heard, it was a technical limitation with Battle.net, which I assume means that Blizzard will use the Battle.net systems to get heirloom transfer to work. If that's the case, considering that Battle.net itself is completely free, I'd say it will be a free service.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8990
They don't do cross-realm BOA transfers because people wouldn't do as many 'paid' transfers if they did.

People would just go send their Heirlooms to a new server and level new toons.

Which diminishes the number of active 85s.

Mostly though, they prefer that people pay for transfers rather than making it free.

It's all about the money.
Considering Blizzard has said absolutely nothing about any kind of heirloom transfer system, I'd say that what you said is nothing more the gross exaggeration and generalization.

Mr. OP, Blizzard already has the solution. Last I heard, it was a technical limitation with Battle.net, which I assume means that Blizzard will use the Battle.net systems to get heirloom transfer to work. If that's the case, considering that Battle.net itself is completely free, I'd say it will be a free service.


Cui Bono?
90 Goblin Hunter
8465
They don't do cross-realm BOA transfers because people wouldn't do as many 'paid' transfers if they did.

People would just go send their Heirlooms to a new server and level new toons.

Which diminishes the number of active 85s.

Mostly though, they prefer that people pay for transfers rather than making it free.

It's all about the money.
Considering Blizzard has said absolutely nothing about any kind of heirloom transfer system, I'd say that what you said is nothing more the gross exaggeration and generalization.

Mr. OP, Blizzard already has the solution. Last I heard, it was a technical limitation with Battle.net, which I assume means that Blizzard will use the Battle.net systems to get heirloom transfer to work. If that's the case, considering that Battle.net itself is completely free, I'd say it will be a free service.


I honestly don't buy the "It's a technical limitation" line. They can flag an account to have pets sent to each character when it's made, something similar can be done with BoA's, they just don't necessarily see it as important. "Technical Limitation" = "Not on our agenda"
100 Night Elf Druid
7960
10/05/2011 11:19 AMPosted by Ocon
I honestly don't buy the "It's a technical limitation" line. They can flag an account to have pets sent to each character when it's made, something similar can be done with BoA's, they just don't necessarily see it as important. "Technical Limitation" = "Not on our agenda"
Not sure how much you know about systems development, but we're not in the 1980s anymore where one geeky dude sitting in a dark corner codes a makeshift solution and then shoehorns it into the overall system.

Too many people who've taken a few programming courses and database class seem to think they understand how this stuff works. Well, I know how to use a hammer and lay concrete, but does that mean I can build the worlds next tallest skyscraper? No.

No one outside of Blizzard knows how their existing systems work. No one outside of Blizzard knows exactly how Blizzard does systems development. And we can only guesstimate how many other things are on their plate. Give how much bickering and complaining about this or that happens in the community, I can't see Blizzard getting to a new feature like cross-realm heirlooms anytime soon.
Edited by Fanahlia on 10/5/2011 11:25 AM PDT
85 Orc Death Knight
6590
Didn't you/someone else post this exact same suggestion a few months ago?

Oh wait no, the general idea seems to have become something of a recurring theme...

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1127125266
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1921989640
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2592856972
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2456909614
Community Manager
10/05/2011 11:19 AMPosted by Ocon
I honestly don't buy the "It's a technical limitation" line. They can flag an account to have pets sent to each character when it's made, something similar can be done with BoA's, they just don't necessarily see it as important. "Technical Limitation" = "Not on our agenda"

What you're describing are two incredibly different mechanics which require very different technical solutions. Yes, we can mail you an item to every existing character on your Battle.net account. But purchasing a BoA item doesn't result in the item being mailed to your character; nor should it, as we're not going to mail every character a BoA item you've purchased on one character. The reason you might not accept the fact we call this a technical limitation seems to be because we fundamentally disagree about how the system should work.

Why not make it so when you purchase an item, you aren't buying the item right then and there, but you are "unlocking" it for the account.

You have to earn the ability to purchase each BoA item. You're not unlocking access to a BoA item which can then be duplicated for every character on an account. You're buying one item. But, that item can be given (not duplicated) to any character on the same account and realm via the in-game mail. What we want to build into Battle.net is the ability for this type of item to be mailed to any character on your account, regardless of realm. Such a system does not exist yet and provides a weighty technical challenge -- we need to make sure there are no adverse effects to making in-game mail cross-realm. For instance, just because we want you to be able to send BoA items to any character on your account, regardless of realm, doesn't necessarily mean we want to open Pandora's box by allowing anyone to mail anything not BoP cross-realm.

Can you see the difference between us mailing every single character on your account on every single realm an item, versus allowing you to mail a single item to any character on your account on any realm? It's a very big one as far as programming is concerned.
85 Undead Priest
1340
I love how people with no technical knowledge of this specific set-up start yelling that it can't possibly be complicated at all.
85 Draenei Paladin
1370
You didn't have to reply Z. I know you have answered this many times before.

All the same I think it's cool you even bothered. You may want to bookmark this response so you can copy/paste in a couple days when someone else asks this again.

And so the cycle continues.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7170
Well, I get the technical limitations... and it seems like they've at least implied they're working on it.

You know, about a year ago they had the same line about appearances. And people swore they'd never do anything about it. Now we're getting transmog... which is basically better than Christmas throwing up directly in your face.

So I feel confident in saying this:
If they say it's a tech issue, and something they would like to do, give them the benefit of the doubt and we'll eventually see it.
15 Tauren Paladin
11145
10/05/2011 11:19 AMPosted by Ocon
I honestly don't buy the "It's a technical limitation" line. They can flag an account to have pets sent to each character when it's made, something similar can be done with BoA's, they just don't necessarily see it as important. "Technical Limitation" = "Not on our agenda"


Fanahlia is absolutely correct, and you're completely wrong.

Blizz is creating an in game mailing system that will allow you to send BOAs from one server to another without forcing players to pay for transfers.

The issue is with Battlenet, and the Battlenet team hasn't had enough time to finish the work to get the necessary dev cycles in. Battlenet predates WoW, and it simply wasn't built to accommodate what is necessary to allow cross server mailing of items. They've stated this several times.

You can come up with whatever conspiracy theories you want, you can believe what you want, but that doesn't mean you're right.
84 Night Elf Druid
5770
I honestly don't buy the "It's a technical limitation" line. They can flag an account to have pets sent to each character when it's made, something similar can be done with BoA's, they just don't necessarily see it as important. "Technical Limitation" = "Not on our agenda"

What you're describing are two incredibly different mechanics which require very different technical solutions. Yes, we can mail you an item to every existing character on your Battle.net account. But purchasing a BoA item doesn't result in the item being mailed to your character; nor should it, as we're not going to mail every character a BoA item you've purchased on one character. The reason you might not accept the fact we call this a technical limitation seems to be because we fundamentally disagree about how the system should work.

Why not make it so when you purchase an item, you aren't buying the item right then and there, but you are "unlocking" it for the account.

You have to earn the ability to purchase each BoA item. You're not unlocking access to a BoA item which can then be duplicated for every character on an account. You're buying one item. But, that item can be given (not duplicated) to any character on the same account and realm via the in-game mail. What we want to build into Battle.net is the ability for this type of item to be mailed to any character on your account, regardless of realm. Such a system does not exist yet and provides a weighty technical challenge -- we need to make sure there are no adverse effects to making in-game mail cross-realm. For instance, just because we want you to be able to send BoA items to any character on your account, regardless of realm, doesn't necessarily mean we want to open Pandora's box by allowing anyone to mail anything not BoP cross-realm.

Can you see the difference between us mailing every single character on your account on every single realm an item, versus allowing you to mail a single item to any character on your account on any realm? It's a very big one as far as programming is concerned.


The only technical limitation i can see is that the "toggles" you guys have, you say are hard to do in game. Yet i recall getting my Ony pet for logging in at a certain day. This is obviously different, (you'd have to buy an item), but you already have an integrated tracking system... the Armory. Assuming you could find a way to deal with people selling items back, the rest seems trivial to me.




It's not ideal, but it beats not having BoA's cross server for any time in the foreseeable future. You could also alleviate issues of dual wielding weapons, by making one MH only (see: Thrashblade/dal'rends, which are already MH/one hand, iirc).


I just don't see why you guys don't like the idea of mailing them to each toon. Sure, it's messy, but i don't see how it's better than nothing, unless you want more people transfering toons. If it means i can have BoAs, i can live with deleting an extra 5 mails on a new toon.. I already get spammed by 3-4 pets anyway.


10/05/2011 11:41 AMPosted by Zarhym
Yes, we can mail you an item to every existing character on your Battle.net account. But purchasing a BoA item doesn't result in the item being mailed to your character; nor should it, as we're not going to mail every character a BoA item you've purchased on one character.



Basically, why the hell not? It's not *that* messy. I know you guys like to release things when they're "ready"... but it feels like you're getting stuck on the peanuts. Stuff like this hasn't stopped you before. (See: Al'akir lacking unique voice acting, Sylvanas' unique model taking a few years..etc).

At the end of the day, it seems like the pros far outweigh the cons, unless i'm forgetting something really, really important (that's not financial, ie transfer $$).


Details plox?
Edited by Tyrazsun on 10/5/2011 11:56 AM PDT
100 Night Elf Druid
13730
10/05/2011 11:50 AMPosted by Kevyne
The reason you might not accept the fact we call this a technical limitation seems to be because we fundamentally disagree about how the system should work.


And we know that it wasn't some "technical" reason it couldn't be done, too. If other MMOs can communicate and mail across different games (SOE and their games, for example), we know WoW and Blizzard's lineup can do the same.

It had to be a reason, from Activision-Blizzard, to not impliment this feature. Point blank.


/tinfoil hat
15 Tauren Paladin
11145
10/05/2011 11:50 AMPosted by Kevyne
The reason you might not accept the fact we call this a technical limitation seems to be because we fundamentally disagree about how the system should work.


And we know that it wasn't some "technical" reason it couldn't be done, too. If other MMOs can communicate and mail across different games (SOE and their games, for example), we know WoW and Blizzard's lineup can do the same.

It had to be a reason, from Activision-Blizzard, to not impliment this feature. Point blank.


Ugh... I notice you set your tin foil hat to be invisible... are they as effective when hidden?
Other MMOs may have been designed from the ground-up to include this feature. WoW was built (many years ago) to not include this feature. All realms were originally 100% separate. They're slowly adding in features (such as the Random Dungeon Finder, linked Battle Grounds, etc), which lower this wall. But all of the cross-realm content so far is instanced and chat related.

The technical limitations related to mail, I'm sure they're still working on. But just because other MMOs have this feature doesn't mean that the code changes necessary magically appear in Blizzard's SVN.
100 Night Elf Druid
7960
The reason you might not accept the fact we call this a technical limitation seems to be because we fundamentally disagree about how the system should work.


And we know that it wasn't some "technical" reason it couldn't be done, too. If other MMOs can communicate and mail across different games (SOE and their games, for example), we know WoW and Blizzard's lineup can do the same.

It had to be a reason, from Activision-Blizzard, to not impliment this feature. Point blank.
Possibility and ease are two different things.

It's possible to do. It's not easy to do.

Oh, and those other games you mentioned. Well, they have an advantage over World of Warcraft in that they were built AFTER WoW came out. What better way to get cool ideas than to take an existing competitor's game and do it better from the ground up? Heck, that's what WoW did to UO.

But in 2004, the concept heirlooms probably hadn't even crossed Blizzard's mind. So why can Sony do it but WoW can't? Because Sony needed Blizzard to do it first before they saw it and did it better.
Edited by Fanahlia on 10/5/2011 11:58 AM PDT
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