Heirlooms

85 Tauren Warrior
8560
10/05/2011 12:22 PMPosted by Holyfrikncow
Just like running to the instance was doing it right and the meeting stones are for the impatient people. It's simply a quality of life improvement even if it doesn't go cross server.


I'm sorry, did you need to grind honor/jp to use meeting stones? Yes, there's life improvement, but there's also a thing called "doing the work" if you want multiple items.

If you're going to come up with an example, use something that's actually comparable.


Grinding reputation gives access to items you can buy multiple times. Sure it takes gold, then why not add a small monetary cost to heirlooms?
1 Human Warrior
0
10/05/2011 11:41 AMPosted by Zarhym
What we want to build into Battle.net is the ability for this type of item to be mailed to any character on your account, regardless of realm. Such a system does not exist yet and provides a weighty technical challenge -- we need to make sure there are no adverse effects to making in-game mail cross-realm. For instance, just because we want you to be able to send BoA items to any character on your account, regardless of realm, doesn't necessarily mean we want to open Pandora's box by allowing anyone to mail anything not BoP cross-realm.


ATM you can send BoA's to cross-faction characters, but not otherwise non-BoP items (not even gold). Wouldn't this be the same check as what is desired?
85 Gnome Priest
3355
You have to earn the ability to purchase each BoA item. You're not unlocking access to a BoA item which can then be duplicated for every character on an account. You're buying one item. But, that item can be given (not duplicated) to any character on the same account and realm via the in-game mail. What we want to build into Battle.net is the ability for this type of item to be mailed to any character on your account, regardless of realm. Such a system does not exist yet and provides a weighty technical challenge -- we need to make sure there are no adverse effects to making in-game mail cross-realm. For instance, just because we want you to be able to send BoA items to any character on your account, regardless of realm, doesn't necessarily mean we want to open Pandora's box by allowing anyone to mail anything not BoP cross-realm.

Can you see the difference between us mailing every single character on your account on every single realm an item, versus allowing you to mail a single item to any character on your account on any realm? It's a very big one as far as programming is concerned.


I know this might not get answered, but...why can't we get a small storage space that is only linked to Battle.net characters? I know, I know...some people would complain that, between the bank, guild bank, void storage, etc., there's too many storage areas already. But I can see what a pain it would be to make mail go between servers when that part of the system was never coded that way, and is probably deeply-rooted into the programming code. However, adding a storage space that only gives, like 8 slots, and you can put items in on one side and then have another toon on a different server pull them out. I honestly was hoping this was what void storage would be before it was announced. It would allow for easy transfer of BoA gear, and would save from having to rewrite the whole mail system. I realize that there might be some misuse of transferring particular items, but...how about restrict it heavily? Only white (common) and battle.net items are transferrable? Or even more strict than that...whatever works.
90 Human Warrior
14495

You have to earn the ability to purchase each BoA item. You're not unlocking access to a BoA item which can then be duplicated for every character on an account. You're buying one item. But, that item can be given (not duplicated) to any character on the same account and realm via the in-game mail. What we want to build into Battle.net is the ability for this type of item to be mailed to any character on your account, regardless of realm. Such a system does not exist yet and provides a weighty technical challenge -- we need to make sure there are no adverse effects to making in-game mail cross-realm. For instance, just because we want you to be able to send BoA items to any character on your account, regardless of realm, doesn't necessarily mean we want to open Pandora's box by allowing anyone to mail anything not BoP cross-realm.

Can you see the difference between us mailing every single character on your account on every single realm an item, versus allowing you to mail a single item to any character on your account on any realm? It's a very big one as far as programming is concerned.



Obviously people shouldn't be able to mail non-BoA items cross realm. But there is already a similar limitation in place. I cannot send my new horde alt anything but BoA gear even on the same realm. We are not allowed to send them gold/boe, consumable, etc. I am guessing the limitation here comes in the form of blocking alliance to alliance or horde to horde cross realm while allowing BoAs. Wish I knew more about programming because it seems a "if realm/faction = same then ok, if realm/faction =/= same then no" when it comes to anything non-BoA. It seems we already have a similar function for cross faction mailing on the same realm.
84 Night Elf Druid
5770
10/05/2011 11:57 AMPosted by Holyfrikncow
I just don't see why you guys don't like the idea of mailing them to each toon. Sure, it's messy, but i don't see how it's better than nothing, unless you want more people transfering toons. If it means i can have BoAs, i can live with deleting an extra 5 mails on a new toon.. I already get spammed by 3-4 pets anyway.

Because you are buying a SINGLE item, not multiple copies.

It's not that Blizzard isn't doing anything, it's just that they haven't finished it yet. Just let them finish it... patience.


Will it really break the game if i get 5 copies though? Barring weapons/trinkets, they're completely, utterly useless. And you can easily fix weapons/trinkets, if you so pleased, using unique flags, or making MHs/OHs.


I don't mind waiting, but they're acting like it's an incredibly hard task (it is, doing it their way, the "right way"... using outdated code/infrastructure), but this is an incredibly easy interim fix.





It's like Captain Placeholder. He wasn't ideal, but it was better than not having boats.
85 Human Paladin
5940
10/05/2011 11:50 AMPosted by Kevyne
The reason you might not accept the fact we call this a technical limitation seems to be because we fundamentally disagree about how the system should work.


And we know that it wasn't some "technical" reason it couldn't be done, too. If other MMOs can communicate and mail across different games (SOE and their games, for example), we know WoW and Blizzard's lineup can do the same.

It had to be a reason, from Activision-Blizzard, to not impliment this feature. Point blank.

Dude, read the whole thing first, then comprehend it, then make sure your brain is in gear before engaging mouth(or in this case fingers)
You have to earn the ability to purchase each BoA item. You're not unlocking access to a BoA item which can then be duplicated for every character on an account. You're buying one item. But, that item can be given (not duplicated) to any character on the same account and realm via the in-game mail.

But they are -effectively- the same thing. If you can mail one BOA item to any character, then you only need 1 of them regardless of how many characters you have. It doesn't matter if you have duplicate copies or not, unless you accidentally logged a character out away from a mailbox. The only reason you'd buy two -now- is because they are on two different servers - which you're saying you'd like to change.

Since they are -effectively- the same thing, it seems like you might as well implement it that way - and implementing the way the OP (and many others, as has been mentioned) described then gets around a lot of the other messy questions you brought up. It also seems like it would be technically easier to do.
84 Night Elf Druid
5770
10/05/2011 12:01 PMPosted by Ünseen
Seriously, it's not simple. Not simple by any means, and would require hundreds of hours of labor to achieve. The servers were never designed for cross realm communication via the mail system, and you cannot simply "flag" an account to receive heirlooms upon log in. The pets and vanity items you get off the blizzard store, or anniversary log-ins are a whole different mechanic.


Why not? If you actually read it, i specifically bypassed cross realm mail communication.


I'm not saying it'd be easy. But it's far easier, and it takes advantage of existing code/infrastructure to get the job done. I don't see any reason why you can't create the same type of flag for a BoA Item as you can for pets. Please explain how that isn't possible.


The game client wouldn't have to create the flag. But the purchase would be reported through the armory, which is definitely robust enough to be queried by a web program, and the rest would be how they do it for pets.

The "interface", you would need, would be the already existing armory.
If not, the hardest part you would have to create, would be a way to make a "flag", that works when buying an item, instead of upon logging in at a certain date. Still not easy, but far, far easier than whatever they're cooking up.

I'm not saying it's perfect... but it's a (relatively) fast interim solution, and i haven't seen a downside besides tweaking weapons/trinkets to not be abused, and mail "spam" on a new toon.
Edited by Tyrazsun on 10/5/2011 12:37 PM PDT
87 Dwarf Hunter
3155
10/05/2011 12:14 PMPosted by Divinara
While that's "Technically" correct, the way it plays out is that all my characters are always entitled to that piece of gear because I can only play one character at a time.

Multi boxers would like to say "hello".
85 Blood Elf Paladin
9745
You have to earn the ability to purchase each BoA item. You're not unlocking access to a BoA item which can then be duplicated for every character on an account. You're buying one item. But, that item can be given (not duplicated) to any character on the same account and realm via the in-game mail.


This is the part I don't quite understand. Why is it so terrible for the same account to have multiple copies of any given piece of BoA gear? You can only use one at a time. You can only log one character in at a time per account. What does it matter if your Death Knight, Warrior, and Paladin are all wearing the same BoA breastplate at the same time? What is the difference between that and mailing said breastplate back and forth (other than gold/justice farming and annoyance when you forget to mail it)?
Edited by Doraene on 10/5/2011 12:36 PM PDT
100 Gnome Warlock
3465
10/05/2011 11:41 AMPosted by Zarhym
You have to earn the ability to purchase each BoA item. You're not unlocking access to a BoA item which can then be duplicated for every character on an account.


Would it be possible to have something like what you have developed for the TCG pets, in that each purchase is only good for one character/realm? I don't think their recommended solution was meant to be so much "Buy one, get 50 free" as it was a "buy one, but have it be accessed later rather than right here, right now".
85 Human Priest
0
then why not have it say, browser based. You can already control all your auctions and such. Could you not purchase ingame things such as vp rewards or heirlooms through a service like this? this could make it possible to "send" stuff to another realm.

You could buy it on one toon then you "send" it via the browser onto another toon on another realm. This would delete the original on the firs toon, and create a second one for the second toon. In essence "sending" it.
84 Night Elf Druid
5770
You have to earn the ability to purchase each BoA item. You're not unlocking access to a BoA item which can then be duplicated for every character on an account.


Would it be possible to have something like what you have developed for the TCG pets, in that each purchase is only good for one character/realm? I don't think their recommended solution was meant to be so much "Buy one, get 50 free" as it was a "buy one, but have it be accessed later rather than right here, right now".


You might have to develop something similar to the codes that you have to give to Landro, but that's another method to do it. You'd have to find a way to generate it by buying an item, which is a bit different.

then why not have it say, browser based. You can already control all your auctions and such. Could you not purchase ingame things such as vp rewards or heirlooms through a service like this? this could make it possible to "send" stuff to another realm.

You could buy it on one toon then you "send" it via the browser onto another toon on another realm. This would delete the original on the firs toon, and create a second one for the second toon. In essence "sending" it.



That's another good one i didn't think of. There are already a few client-browser interfaces that could be jerryrigged to work for BoAs.
Edited by Tyrazsun on 10/5/2011 12:39 PM PDT
100 Troll Hunter
13845
Seems like if void storage was some sort of account storage it would increase the usefulness of void storage. Obviously if item was not in storage(eg, equipped heirloom) it would not be available to any other character on your account. If it wasn't a boa maybe the item wouldn't even be visible to any character. Mains would still pay deposit fees but alts would not pay withdrawal fee for boa items only.

I just pulled this idea out of thin air and I think it would kill two birds with one stone by making void storage less eccentric and more mainstream and letting boa's live up to their name.

In no way do I understand what it takes to make a game like this, it just seems like very few things are talked about by Blizzard as being a technical challenge for two years with no known results or time frame ever presented. I feel like you placate customers by telling them "we want to do this" yet internally have no desire to do this because you would make less off server transfers.

100 Night Elf Druid
8570
Obviously people shouldn't be able to mail non-BoA items cross realm. But there is already a similar limitation in place. I cannot send my new horde alt anything but BoA gear even on the same realm. We are not allowed to send them gold/boe, consumable, etc. I am guessing the limitation here comes in the form of blocking alliance to alliance or horde to horde cross realm while allowing BoAs. Wish I knew more about programming because it seems a "if realm/faction = same then ok, if realm/faction =/= same then no" when it comes to anything non-BoA. It seems we already have a similar function for cross faction mailing on the same realm.
Yeah, see the problem is most people whittle something like this down to the proverbial if-then statement. If-then statements do not constitute programming, nor are they keystone to the entire operation. They are a pivotal part of building something but not the only important piece.

Speaking in high level terms-- like what everyone has done in this thread-- inherently makes assumptions about things. I'm not here to say with assuming is right or wrong, but usually in the professional world, you bring along an engineer to tell you whether an assumption is correct. "Getting my heirloom to another realm while following these rules" sounds easy from a high level. From a engineer's perspective, he or she is going to say this: "getting my heirloom to another realm" means socket-based networking, connecting at least two databases. Networking is going to mean either a private network which will be secure but will cost us because we have to buy network usage from another company, or we could use the internet which is free and fast, but not always stable nor is it secure. "While following these rules" means sitting around a table and hashing out what those rules are. That process-- of hashing out rules-- may mean even more complex programming.

Someone in another reply implied that this should be a band-aid solution. No it should not. Band-aids are the bane of all system developers everywhere. They are temporary and never flexible, and they end up causing problems down the road.

Either build a good system the first time or don't waste company labor, time, and money.
90 Goblin Mage
14915
10/05/2011 12:34 PMPosted by Doraene
Why is it so terrible for the same account to have multiple copies of any given piece of BoA gear? You can only use one at a time. You can only log one character in at a time per account.


Well, there's multiboxing. A person with multiple accounts could buy one heirloom and use it on multiple characters simultaneously. But given how easy it is to come by JP, this is hardly game-breaking.
85 Draenei Death Knight
2580
10/05/2011 11:58 AMPosted by Eralen


And we know that it wasn't some "technical" reason it couldn't be done, too. If other MMOs can communicate and mail across different games (SOE and their games, for example), we know WoW and Blizzard's lineup can do the same.

It had to be a reason, from Activision-Blizzard, to not impliment this feature. Point blank.


I don't like you.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
9745
10/05/2011 12:42 PMPosted by Keeblik
Well, there's multiboxing. A person with multiple accounts could buy one heirloom and use it on multiple characters simultaneously. But given how easy it is to come by JP, this is hardly game-breaking

Are BoAs limited by battle.net account, or game license? If it's battle.net then you're right, but if it goes by the original definition of account, before battle.net allowed people to link multiple accounts together, that's not a problem. They couldn't give it to the second (third/fourth/whatever) character anyway.
14 Gnome Mage
11120
10/05/2011 11:44 AMPosted by Elphis
I love how people with no technical knowledge of this specific set-up start yelling that it can't possibly be complicated at all.
The technical complexity has not prevented the Blizzard from mailing items to every character you create at any other time. New characters getting half a dozen new mails with pets and mounts is not uncommon; same system should be no more complicated for BoAs.
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