Raid Finder Loot Rules Update

Community Manager
In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here's how it'll work:

A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.

  • A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.

  • A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.

  • Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.


So what happens?

Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they’re rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.

We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
Edited by Lylirra on 10/7/2011 9:48 AM PDT
85 Tauren Paladin
9485
So basically Main Role>Off Role...

Main Role in terms of the role you entered the raid in.
Edited by Magnijung on 10/7/2011 10:38 AM PDT
85 Human Paladin
7590
Can I make a slight suggestion change:
The RRF queue tool should allow me to select "Primary Spec & Secondary Spec" that way I don't get punished if it puts me as a tank when I really want DPS gear.

That is, regardless of what I'm chosen to do, I get to roll on the gear as the spec that I want gear for.

Otherwise, (even though I am a main-spec DPS) I'll always be punished for selecting "DPS & Tank" in the RRF (I'll always be asked to tank and never win DPS gear).
Edited by Divinara on 10/7/2011 10:30 AM PDT
85 Tauren Paladin
9485
Can I make a slight suggestion change:
The +100 should count for any spec that the player picked during the Random Raid Finder.

Otherwise, (even though I am a main-spec DPS) I'll always be punished for selecting "DPS & Tank" in the RRF.


Well technically you can select all 3 roles and thus you would get a bonus on all 3 types of items.

Also it is obvious that if you pick tank/dps, you will get picked to tank.
85 Gnome Priest
6840
Any thoughts on having this apply to the new heroics, too?
Community Manager
10/07/2011 09:47 AMPosted by Draenybrit
You said the Fury Warrior's 98........ The Fury Warrior rolled a 64.


Great catch!
It's about time ^^

Hopefully this system also took into account people attempting to abuse the system; like last minute role swaps (assuming role-locking isn't there; role swaps a microsecond before the boss is pulled).

Or maybe the raid-leader forcibly swaps people's roles (assuming that LFR raid leader still has this ability).

Or maybe abuse of BoE gear, where say a Tanking BoE item drops and the Tank always hits Need regardless if they already have it or even need it.

Still, I think this is a definite improvement over simple need-greed. Loot-drama is one area that can tear a raid or guild apart; I think this new loot system would definitely help in that regard.
Edited by Zuler on 10/7/2011 9:52 AM PDT
100 Blood Elf Priest
11205
I love it Lylirra, and would love to see that moved over to RDF as well.
85 Tauren Paladin
9485
10/07/2011 09:51 AMPosted by Zuler
Or maybe abuse of BoE gear, where say a Tanking BoE item drops and the Tank always hits Need regardless if they already have it or even need it.


BoE gear binds when Needed.
85 Tauren Druid
10670
Can I make a slight suggestion change:
The +100 should count for any spec that the player picked when queuing for the Random Raid Finder.

Alternatively, have the RRF queue tool allow me to select "Primary Spec & Secondary Spec" that way I don't get punished if it puts me as a tank when I really want DPS gear.

Otherwise, (even though I am a main-spec DPS) I'll always be punished for selecting "DPS & Tank" in the RRF (I'll always be asked to tank and never win DPS gear).


That's a good point. I can DPS or Tank, but though I check both, I will always get selected to Tank (for dungeons) when what I really want gear for is DPS...
85 Human Paladin
7590
Also it is obvious that if you pick tank/dps, you will get picked to tank.

This actually might not be the case with the Raid Finder... the 3 DPS to 1 Tank required ratio in RDF is drastically different than the 8.5 to 1 ratio in the Raid Finder.

So basically Main Role>Off Role

No... the way I read it is:
the role that Blizzard put you in > role you didn't get selected for.

Clarification Requested
Is it the role you were selected by the Raid Finder for, or the role you are "set" to in the dungeon?

Clearly the "set to" has it's own issues...
(for example, a DPS that doesn't want to tank the dungeon but wants tank gear more changes his role to tank even though he didn't queue as a tank)
Edited by Divinara on 10/7/2011 10:01 AM PDT
90 Undead Death Knight
8375
Otherwise, (even though I am a main-spec DPS) I'll always be punished for selecting "DPS & Tank" in the RRF (I'll always be asked to tank and never win DPS gear).


If you want to be the DPS and get the bonus roll for DPS gear, then don't select tank when you queue. Just select dps only.

Allowing the bonus for any role you selected (instead of just the role you end up with) gives multi role classes an advantage over single role classes.

A Pally or Druid could select all three roles while some other classes can only do 2 or 1.

Why should you get the bonus roll for all three types of gear while others cannot?
100 Worgen Druid
12085
I actually like this better than what others have been trying to get.

You can manually set your "role" to dps even if you are a tank.

Doing that will let you roll on DPS gear with the bonus because its your main spec even if you are currently tanking.


edit: either i read this wrong or everyone else did. It does not go off of what you signed up as or what spec your in or what you can be. It goes off of what you pick if someone preforms a role check (which you will be flagged with one thing or another simply because its a Raid Finder group)
Edited by Ruid on 10/7/2011 9:58 AM PDT
10/07/2011 09:36 AMPosted by Lylirra
For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated.


So, tanks will have only one other person to compete with on two tank fights, and no one to compete with on one tank fights. Or is it instead once a tank, always a tank, even if one tank has to go dps for a boss? I'm not clear on your wording.

In the meantime, all other roles will be competing against multiple folks for an item. For example, shadow priests will be able to roll on the spirit items and hit items, but healing priests will only be able to roll on spirit items, I assume?

I guess it's good and bad, but I can't help but wonder if that will mean that tank gear will have a lower drop rate due to the much smaller pool of competitors?
85 Tauren Paladin
9485
10/07/2011 09:54 AMPosted by Divinara
Also it is obvious that if you pick tank/dps, you will get picked to tank.

This actually might not be the case with the Raid Finder... the 3 DPS to 1 Tank required ratio in RDF is drastically different than the 8.5 to 1 ratio in the Raid Finder.


Highly double it... at the end of the day there are a lot more dps than tanks.

Also back to the main issue, if you can select all 3 roles and roll on all 3 types of items, the change to the system is pointless.
85 Tauren Druid
10670
Perhaps we should specify a preferred class role for gear, independent of the role we are assigned by the random system. That way we can have the advantage on the kind of gear we want to roll for without necessarily having to be in that role.

Also, how does this system apply to Shaman and Druid DPS. Let's say I'm a feral DPS, and Boomkin DPS gear drops. Do I get the +100 to my roll?
85 Tauren Paladin
9485
No... the role that Blizzard put you in > role you didn't get selected for.


Main roll as in the role you entered the instance in.
90 Undead Death Knight
8375
10/07/2011 09:51 AMPosted by Zuler
Or maybe the raid-leader forcibly swaps people's roles (assuming that LFR raid leader still has this ability).


In the current LFD system, you are assigned a role by the system itself and you get a symbol next to your portrait. The shield, green cross, or sword. That is the role the system has you defined as for that instance run. No one can change those symbols, even if you change your role after getting in the dungeon. I would assume those symbols are what will be used to define what role you are for the purposes of the +100 to need roll.

I would assume the same thing will happen with the LFR system, that that role definition cannot be changed.
85 Orc Warrior
11880
Should add smart loot to the dungeons and raids. Can not count how many times something that dropped was not useable by anyone and either got vendored majority of the time or disenchanted if we happened to be lucky enough. Smartloot is a feature introduce in EQ 2 about 4 years ago because of a growing problem where not all classes can be in a group or raid.

Example: Deathknight, Warrior, Druid, Priest, Mage x2, Hunter x2, Rogue and Shaman are in BH. Under current system if a Paladin only set piece drops that is useless to the 0ther 10 people in the raid. Under smartloot, the system would not include the Paladin drops in the possible list of loot so that the 10 people that did go can have a chance at loot that they really need.
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