Blizzard, you've crossed the line

85 Human Paladin
10000
I'm not sure why people are bringing up the 'you aren't buying gold, money is just moving' stuff.

You are buying something of value out of thin air, which is then sold for in-game currency. You are indeed buying gold, because the value you purchased solely becomes gold.

You had nothing. You paid real life money. You gained something of potentially great value. For doing nothing in game. And gold is used for a lot of things, one of which is buying gear, not all around great gear, but a few slots worth bragging about.


This needed to be reposted. People keep saying you are not injecting gold into the economy but it is. Just listen to what this guy is saying. Now think about it; let it sink in.

First there was one person with x amount of gold. Now magically a pet is created that is worth x amount of gold. 2X.

I'm just saying this is one of those fundamental points that people keep missing. There are several points like this that people keep denying over and over again. It's amazing that they can't see what's right in front of their eyes.


You're arguing against yourself here. You just pointed out that something of value is being created, but not that gold itself is being created. There's no magical button that converts the item to gold. It needs to be sold.

By your argument, you could say that every time someone manufactures a new car, the MSRP of that car is created in the world. That's patently false. Something of value =/= currency. When you buy the $30,000.00 car, there's still only a car and $30k, not $60k.
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10 Troll Warlock
0
10/17/2011 12:22 AMPosted by Snarklez
This needed to be reposted. People keep saying you are not injecting gold into the economy but it is. Just listen to what this guy is saying. Now think about it; let it sink in.

Creating value and and creating gold are two different things. You create gold every time you kill a monster, complete a quest or vendor a drop/quest reward. When you buy this pet you create an in game item that does not (according to WoWhead) sell for anything. So you cannot create gold by vendoring it. You must sell it to another player who already has the gold to pay for it. The gold is only changing hands- to you from another player. The other player may have created the gold out of thin air (quests, vendor trash, ect.) or gotten it from other players, but either way it is already in existence before you were paid it.
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To reiterate something I said elsewhere:

Making gold in game is easy. The only thing anyone needs to earn gold is time, and a lot of players - especially older players - don't have a lot of time to spare for farming. As such, they'll either stagnate and eventually give up on the game, or they'll find a way to work around the boring bits (i.e. buy gold rather than farm it) so that they can pursue the parts they enjoy. Personally, I'd much rather people have an avenue for 'buying' gold from Blizz than dealing with shady spammer sites that hack accounts - because allowing the likes of illegal gold sellers to run rampant is bad for the game. If Blizz has to set a back-fire in order to stop that inferno from spreading, I say more power to them.

This isn't a money grab from Blizzard. It won't be popular enough to warrant that label, and if Blizz was just money hungry, then there is absolutely nothing stopping them from raising rates - which they haven't in five years time.

And honestly, buying this pet is not buying gold. Buying this pet is buying a pet, which you can then try to trade for gold. If you are buying this pet specifically to make gold, then you are taking a huge gamble.

This is a huge gamble for a number of reasons.
1. Anybody can buy the pet. $10 is not a make-or-break amount for anyone who can shell out $15 a month for entertainment.
2. The in-game value of the pet will vary, and will likely not be very much. 2000 gold is a generous estimate, as per 1.
3. To further reduce 2, the in-game demand for these will likely not be very great. Anybody who wants one can buy their own.
4. To again reduce 2, the in-game supply for these will likely be rather large, since anybody who values 2000 gold more than $10 will have one up for sale. It won't be hard for someone to shop around for the cheapest possible pet, rather than buy the one that some mouth-breather decided to try to sell for 80000 gold on the first day.
5. 2000 in-game currency represents barely any buying power at all. You'd be better off farming or playing the Auction House.

It really doesn't make sense why people get so worked up over this as a gold-making method. 2000 gold per pet is a generous estimate, and at that rate you'd need eight of them to buy the typical Firelands BoE - just one item for $80, and you can't guarantee that even one of them would sell, let alone all eight. That is a massive gamble of real money for one BoE item that probably wouldn't even boost performance that much.

And I think the slippery slope arguments are laughable, really. Their online store is for non-combat items only, and it has never been meant for anything else. Offering a BoE pet is not in any way related to offering cash for BoE gear, and I've yet to see anyone offer a justifiable logical link between the two.

Blizzard isn't stupid, and I'm sure someone in their offices at some time or another has seen Extra Credits: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions
Edited by Yuliana on 10/17/2011 7:48 AM PDT
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85 Night Elf Hunter
5005
Blizzard is not selling gold. No new gold is being generated.

If this were real life for example....someone gives you a video game console for your birthday. They paid money for it, and you turn around and sell it. No new money was generated, no new coins were pressed, no new dollars were printed. Your friend lost money, you gained money, someone else lost money but gained a video game console.

The original purchase was your friends choice entirely, they don't mind having lost the money. This is free will.

You chose to sell the object instead of keeping it and gaining whatever usefulness and worth it may have had that way. Perhaps you already had that object, and so did not need another one. Either way, again, free will. It is YOUR object now to do with as you please, and you were pleased to sell it.

The buyer CHOSE to buy it. Free will again. You priced it, someone chose to buy it. If they didn't buy it, perhaps you lower your price...either way....the negotiation is agreed upon by both the purchaser and the seller. The buyer wouldn't buy it if they weren't happy and the seller wouldn't sell it if they wanted to keep it.


The same thought process can be applied to this pet in the game. It takes free will to choose to purchase the pet, free will to choose to sell it on the AH (or buy it for that specific purpose), and it takes FREE WILL for someone to spend their OWN gold on it. This is how it works and this is how it has always worked. Just because Blizzard is adding an object into the game that can be sold on the AH does NOT mean they are endorsing or legalizing the actual selling of actual gold.

Besides that, these sorts of objects have existed in game FOR A LONG TIME now. You can pay real life money for things that you can sell for in game gold ALREADY. And it has been that way for a few years now if I'm not mistaken. Just because this pet will be more readily available doesn't actually mean it's anything new or different. It's not. And those of you who are afraid this is the end of WoW as you know.......all the doomsayers have been going on and on about the doom for years and the game has yet to actually be doomed.

I think you're just wrong about this. Wait until it happens.....if it's really a huge detriment to the game, Blizzard will remove it.

I know everyone likes to think that they're trying to destroy this game that they spent so much time and money on and put so much work into...but they're not. Trust me. They are not.
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85 Worgen Death Knight
2700

It's not going to have this huge impact on the economy like you think it will, FFS we don't even know what these things will go for in AH in the first place!


This really isn't helping your argument. This is just as good a reason to support the exact opposite argument. It could go either way.


But the Market will determine the price, as it stands you'll get a horde of people throwing the pet on the AH for wildly different prices, depending on which items get sold than you might have a price, also the pet isn't craft-able so there's not even a cost to produce the thing or even any sort of finder's fee because to my knowledge there is NO time or effort needed to acquire this pet.

As much controversy as you guys seems to be kicking up, it's ultimately a question of whether or not people are willing to spend possibly mountains of in-game gold for what could be purchased for a pittance in real money, the problem here is that people will more likely just go to the Blizz-store, and buy it there because at least than the pet won't run the risk of kicking your wallet in the balls (Virtual or otherwise).

If I spend like 100$ getting say for example 4 of these things (For 25$ each), than charged say 1000k gold apiece, would people even consider honestly buying them, and if so would that really be worth my 100$. Even than I don't have a solid benchmark to compare my "Profit" to, is 1$ equal to 200g, or perhaps 5000g, am I getting swindled if I only get 2500g out of the deal? It's the main reason I've never even considered buying gold, what's to say I'm not getting conned if I only get so much gold for any given amount, at least with real currencies there's an exchange rate so I know if I'm in the ballpark of a fair deal, with gold -> cash it's purely up to personal opinion how much any given amount of real money is worth is WoW gold.
Edited by Dalard on 10/17/2011 4:39 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
15750
I am not surprised in the least. The idea they bought forth has recieved alot of negative criticism, not what they were expecting I would imagine. They are probably hoping that if they ignore it, it will just die away on its own.


They knew and expected this backlash, they know how many gamers actually play to collect things. whether it's pets, achievment points, tabards, or beer steins. They probably even foresaw the "slippery slope" argument, since everytime blizzard changes or adds a premium service it's brought up again. I just don't think they expected the magnitude.

I enjoy collecting mounts and pets and my girlfriends main reason for playing the game is for mounts and pets. The only thing about this change that bothers me is that they are charging the same amount for something that used to bind to my entire account. I think the idea of making it tradable is fine for kids or adults who don't have or don't want to spend the money to get the pet. I doubt I will purchase this pet or any others under this same concept since i have 20 characters on my server and I actively play 6 of them and would like this pet on them as well.
Edited by Bilbowbagins on 10/17/2011 7:22 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
17580
10/17/2011 03:50 PMPosted by Ryle
I'm extremely surprised and disappointed with Blizzard that they have yet to address the backlash.


I am not surprised in the least. The idea they bought forth has recieved alot of negative criticism, not what they were expecting I would imagine. They are probably hoping that if they ignore it, it will just die away on its own.

And as far as being disappointed with them, I have been for a while.


Honestly the dignified solution would be to give people a BOA and BOE option for each and every pet. Purchasing the BOA one would let you learn it on all characters like it does for other ones while the BOE option lets you sell a Blizzard store item in game.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
0
10/16/2011 10:06 AMPosted by Pertenstein
60k is ridiculous but 30k is reasonable?
Trust me I dont think it is as well but on my server the prices are unimaginable. We have a guild that kinda messes up the economy named Exodus. One of those top world wide guilds. They host guild auctions. Things like running people to get titles and mounts or just the achievement. And those thing cost anywhere between 75k (cheapest of course) to 500k. The more expensive ones allow you to have the loot you want, titles, and any mount that drops. Surprisingly people pay for these things. But since this guild charges and arm and leg for items BoE items can cost over 50k if its a weapon. gear around the 30-40k. rings are even about 10-20k. Not to mention pets like a black tabby. 20k -_- I dont know if anyone else is on a server like this but the fact that everything over here is so high compared to what Ive seen people say it is on there server makes me want to move.

So its like at this point if farming isnt possible for you because of ninjas or you just cant find a group, sometimes you have to go the alternative route and buy the item but when undercutting, its pretty much a steal here.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5490
10/18/2011 05:01 PMPosted by Ryle
Honestly the dignified solution would be to give people a BOA and BOE option for each and every pet.


Yeah, I don't see that happening anytime soon. If they were to do this they wouldn't be able to screw their customers out of more money.

The total lack of a CM response to this long thread makes me believe that no matter what we say, they will just go ahead with it anyway.

Very disappointing, but not surprising.


go back a few pages,sparky,a blue "did" respond..
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10/18/2011 05:01 PMPosted by Ryle
Honestly the dignified solution would be to give people a BOA and BOE option for each and every pet.


Yeah, I don't see that happening anytime soon. If they were to do this they wouldn't be able to screw their customers out of more money.

The total lack of a CM response to this long thread makes me believe that no matter what we say, they will just go ahead with it anyway.

Very disappointing, but not surprising.


I hate to break it to you, but this game and the direction it takes is not run by a democracy. As up in arms as you may be about this, their has been about an equal response in this thread alone that takes an opposite view of this change.

This isn't like RealID where the negative response was overwhelmingly negative.
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14 Orc Hunter
70
I really don't care about your excuses, this is legal gold buying. I can buy ten pets, sell them each for 200g, and boom I just bought 2000g. This is the exact definition of indirect gold buying. I really hope you rethink this decision, because the reason I left a past MMO to join WoW is because they sold products that gave you an indirect advantage, just like this.

EDIT: Clarification. I'm not angry at this item itself, but angry at what it's leading up to. If Blizzard doesn't see any resistance with this, they'll keep pushing the envelope. There's no reason not to. If we don't draw a line somewhere, they'll keep pushing these kinds of things to the point where items and gold are buy able.


OP, you're angry at the wrong thing. You're just spouting common misunderstandings. Gold buying, in and of itself, is not the problem. The problem in gold buying is the origin of the gold that is bought, which is, the vast majority of the time, associated with hacked accounts. Take the shady origin away and there is nothing that will adversely affect the economy via the buying and selling of these pets. There will be no more imbalancing of the economy than there normally is from say, GDKP runs. The sky is not falling, or if it is, these pets aren't a part of it.
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85 Gnome Priest
7530
10/19/2011 05:18 AMPosted by Garol
Gold buying, in and of itself, is not the problem


It is actually. If pretty much everyone has over 500k gold what would the ah prices be like? No matter how expensive you put something up for if it sells that will become the price. Next thing you know to be able to use the auction house at all you need to buy gold. If enough people really don't like buying gold, there will be 2 economies. If the gold buyers have the option of buying something at a normal, much lower price than they're used to paying, do you think they'd pass up the bargain? I doubt it. It would push everyone into becoming a farmer rather than a player, because it'd be the only way non-gold-buyers would ever be able to keep up to buy what they need. How much would you pay for a mage port or an enchanting tip?

AND there is that whole issue of just because you're financially well-off in real life, why must that make it so you have an advantage in-game which you could not have by actually playing it? If this comes in, how long until the game is all about hacks and cheats etc as well?
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90 Worgen Death Knight
9550
its a pet, who cares.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
12355
I'm just amazed this isn't dead yet...
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