Assassination VS Subtlety in PvP

85 Undead Rogue
1890
I'm not as much disgruntled as I am amazed at the disparity between the two specs. I have played my rogue here (my only character above level 10) for about a year now. I combat dungeons and assassination PvP, up until yesterday that is.

I have been sweating it out in arenas for about a month, just sucking !@# w. assassination spec. In between queues I get so mad at people telling me to change to sub that I finally do for the first time.

I take a quick glance at the abilities I have never used, or even read before, and while in the arena waiting room with the forty five seconds ticking away I unlock my action bars, arrange things into what i think might help me set an alright rotation, relock, stealth and go.

We won that match and the three following after not winning the previous 14!!!!

You might say it is luck or chance, but even in standard BG I have been schooling as opposed to merely holding my own.

You might say I am a noob or weak or whatever, but I put ALOT of effort in to tweeking my assassination rogue over the past year and sub blows it out of the water on the first day.

Why else do you only see sub rogues out there. Look around and you will be suprised.

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90 Undead Rogue
7015
and all of a sudden.... BAM its hits him like a truck!

:)
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85 Night Elf Rogue
10820
not sure why it would take you so long to see the disparity. some people are simply in love with the spec and i have no idea why. in its current state i dont even think it's fun past duels against plate classes.
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90 Undead Rogue
0
I believe that any Rogue can still devour players with any spec. Whether if it's Assassination, Combat, or Subtlety.

I've seen one Orc Rogue on my server that uses Combat as PvP, and he literally owns everyone on here. Axe in main-hand Dagger in other.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that it takes skill, and a lot of it.
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88 Gnome Rogue
2260
10/06/2011 07:12 PMPosted by Elinthiaqt
not sure why it would take you so long to see the disparity. some people are simply in love with the spec and i have no idea why. in its current state i dont even think it's fun past duels against plate classes.


Sub is definitely the better PvP spec, hands down. Those of us who love Mut and/or Combat won't deny it ... well, most of us anyway. That doesn't mean we can't still love our chosen spec, enjoy trying to use it, and encourage Blizzard to make it better.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
12570
PvP is frustrating enough. I'd hate to gimp myself with mut or combat.
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100 Goblin Rogue
18075
10/06/2011 05:33 PMPosted by Mnundead
Why else do you only see sub rogues out there. Look around and you will be suprised.


Because assassination is a play style that doesn't work well in arenas, that's why.
I stick with Assassination because I enjoy world pvp and spend more time doing that than arenas.
Out in the world, with more tools available (mobs to pull, more stuff to hide behind, engineering gadgets, etc.), I prefer assassination to sub any day.
If it's success in arena, sub will help you out more than assassination for the most part.
Also, based on your story, you warmed up to sub pretty quickly which leads me to believe your play style was much more in line with sub's to begin with.
Gratz on the success!

Another reason that Assassination isn't so popular these days is, I'm assuming, due to the FOTM mentality. I have run into plenty of rogues without the skill, gear or experience to even step foot in the arena who spit on non-sub rogues just because they are not the same spec.

Unfortunately in a highly competitive game like WOW, many players feel the need to do weird things that make no sense, like play a spec they don't like so they can be more competitive in an area of the game they don't even participate in.
Edited by Cigarettes on 10/7/2011 1:04 AM PDT
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85 Goblin Rogue
2295
No matter what anyone says. Sub just has way more tools for pvp. There is no way around it.
I personally like playing sub over the two other specs.
Edited by Lilgànker on 10/7/2011 1:26 AM PDT
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100 Goblin Rogue
18075
Sub alone has double the tools available if not more, I prefer mut spec in world pvp because I don't need double the tools to kill someone, more like 120% of what is naturally available, which is what pots and engineering provides me with.
Lots of people like the way sub feels, it has much more "on demand" tools and tricks where as mut requires ramp up time and is more focused on survivability in order to achieve its goal.
Mut is naturally a slower spec that requires a bit more patience and thought.

What I was trying to say in my previous post was that I do see players who have never given mut a try and never will until someone else tells them that it is okay. That kind of behavior really twists my !@#$%^s.
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87 Undead Rogue
10230
Sub vs Mut in pvp... well why not have a duel with some rogue on ur server equally skilled as you and have one go one spec and one to the other.. then you can see which one works better. BTW any rogue worth his salt will easily smash a mut rogue as sub.
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100 Goblin Rogue
18075
Lets go, you and me, right now, outside.
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Mutilate needs a lot of help to even sniff Sub's utility right now.

Kind of sad, in a way. It would definitely go a long way in toning down the dominance of plate classes.

Couple of ideas to improve Mut, without gimping sub:

Make gouge from any direction baseline for all rogues.
Make the portion of the talent from Sanguinary Vein (bleeds dont break gouge) into a glyph.
Compensate for this removal by buffing the damage of bleeds in this talent to 12% or even 16-20%, bringing rogue back in line with the crazy !@# damage feral bleeds do.

Mutilate also needs its own prep, but that's another story.
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85 Goblin Rogue
1530
It kinda worked out for me cause I always loved sub, played it in vanilla, played it in TBC and even played it in WotLK. It always feels like the most 'roguish' spec to be. I remember having to be prep Mut to get anywhere in arena during WotLK, oh how the tables have turned! Mut always seemed too simple for me. To each his own.
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10/07/2011 09:14 AMPosted by Gilirax
It kinda worked out for me cause I always loved sub, played it in vanilla, played it in TBC and even played it in WotLK. It always feels like the most 'roguish' spec to be. I remember having to be prep Mut to get anywhere in arena during WotLK, oh how the tables have turned! Mut always seemed too simple for me. To each his own.


Yea, I was playing sub back when shadowstep was stealth only. It kind of went off the rails when Blizz engineered out the ability to go "toe to toe" with other dps classes. Sub is now mostly a "reset" type of spec, with gouge/break combat/restealth against other high damage/high mitigation melee classes.

it's still fun, but more businesslike than in the past. Just my two cents.
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90 Human Priest
10250
10/06/2011 05:33 PMPosted by Mnundead
I unlock my action bars, arrange things into what i think might help me set an alright rotation, relock, stealth and go.


You can hold down your shift key and drag icons, even when your bar is locked. I think it's shift, it's one of them anyways.
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86 Night Elf Rogue
4735
Noo..! Subt steals away another Sin rogue...

We need peeps to suffer so they'll finally fix it xD
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88 Gnome Rogue
2260
10/07/2011 09:29 AMPosted by Apex
It kinda worked out for me cause I always loved sub, played it in vanilla, played it in TBC and even played it in WotLK. It always feels like the most 'roguish' spec to be. I remember having to be prep Mut to get anywhere in arena during WotLK, oh how the tables have turned! Mut always seemed too simple for me. To each his own.


Yea, I was playing sub back when shadowstep was stealth only. It kind of went off the rails when Blizz engineered out the ability to go "toe to toe" with other dps classes. Sub is now mostly a "reset" type of spec, with gouge/break combat/restealth against other high damage/high mitigation melee classes.

it's still fun, but more businesslike than in the past. Just my two cents.


I only started Rogue in Wrath, but preferred Sub as well. I never really cared for Mut. Funny thing is, now I'm 180. Pure Sub's play-style changed ... then again, so do Mut and Combat.
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86 Night Elf Rogue
4735
10/07/2011 02:52 PMPosted by Lemlí
And for the love of humanity, I wish the developers would fix Killing Spree. It hits like a loofah.


I dunno, I remember this one time I went to use the loofah that was left in the bath too long and had become hard and moldy. After convincing myself that the bloody gash would not heal itself, I decided to see the doctor. The attending nurse asked what the cause was and I told her it involved 'reenacting a scene from waterworld', the part where the sea bears fight off the whale army but she just wrote down 'stupidity'.
Edited by Troelsen on 10/7/2011 7:57 PM PDT
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90 Orc Rogue
10080
You are strait up foolish to pvp as combat. Assassination is good for killing power but it doesn't get around well. Sub gives you decent damage, and awesome mobility and survivability. People need to stop griping and just play sub because it's fun. When a rogue uses killing spree, its laughable how much damage it does.

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