1.35% of all wow players completed normal FL

85 Draenei Paladin
1370
10/13/2011 02:32 PMPosted by Bashiok
And when you see them you'll be all like :O and we'll be all like :D and then people on the forums will still be all like(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
I have my personal feelings toward some of the things you post but I agree with this 100%
90 Draenei Mage
17305
10/13/2011 03:12 PMPosted by Elm
if they try to make normal something painful like they have been doing this whole expansion


Normal T11 was hard the first few weeks in the sense that everyone just went through a massive gear reset, and people were pulling these bosses in gear that was essentially two tiers below what they were attempting (333 vs 359).

The reason people fail is for two reasons: 1) they don't possess the mental powers or willingness to problem solve, or 2) they have no clue how to play their class.

The first one is a social/cultural/educational issue that Blizzard can not address. Number one manifests itself in people who throw up their hands after one wipe. It is also a social failing because they don't want to problem solve as a group.

How do you solve it? Tell them to man the !@#$ up or be content with wiping because they refuse to dedicate the 2 minutes it takes to identify a problem and offer a solution.

Number two manifests itself in DPS that are level 85, in Zul'Aman, with a 15% damage buff, that are doing between 8 and 9k dps single target in a mix of 353/359/378 gear as an arcane mage.

Another example is going into a raid pug and seeing a Holy Priest not press Circle of Healing a SINGLE TIME during the Magmaw encounter. Why did you talent it in the first place if you're not going to use it during portions of the encounter that are PERFECTLY suited for it?

How do you solve number two? Replace them usually if they can not accept offered improvements/solutions after a few wipes (which relates to number 1, surprise surprise). Unless they're your friends, they're not worth an outsized time investment.

Blizzard can address this by slowing down the leveling process and incorporating more quests (even mandatory ones) to unlock new skills, talents and levels.
Edited by Ryegeleye on 10/13/2011 3:31 PM PDT
90 Gnome Warrior
13270
Too bad we can't use sigs anymore. Would have definitely loved to make the last line of Bashiok's statement mine.
62 Dwarf Rogue
730
10/13/2011 02:02 PMPosted by Bashiok
and gradual lowering of content we think we can create that initial super high barrier to test the true worth of the hardest of the hardcore, while also providing some fun and accessible content to a much wider swath of players.


I really can't stress how much I loathe this approach.

Edit: Let me clarify. Not long ago I was bored of WoW, but I love the game and wanted to keep playing. I joined one of those X level capped raiding guilds because I thought reliving those old raids would be fun. Unfortunately all the changes to the game since back then have made the content trivial, so the guild had all these strange rules and restrictions to try and simulate a challenging raid environment. Bottom line, nerfing the content so that more people can eventually see it ruins said content for future usage.

Meanwhile, the people that aren't good enough to handle a raid while it is current have to perpetually wait for the nerfs to come and endure the fact that the game is constantly reminding them that they are awful. What does that do to someone's ego? Just make the normal modes as easy as you think it should be to reach your target audience, and let the heroics be the challenge. It isn't rocket science.
Edited by Brochai on 10/13/2011 3:38 PM PDT
90 Dwarf Shaman
17205

Ulduar was the most fun I have ever had in a raid, bar none. What an amazing tier. I wish they'd try to emulate what was so successful about that.


It was also one of the least accessible tiers while it was current. If Ulduar was trivialized (say as diffficult/less difficult as firelands normal is), than I don't think there's be much of a sense of accomplishment for completing it and a great number would just be bored.


Least accessible? What's your reasoning behind that? Are you just looking at people who did it on 25, 10? When it was current, practically every guild on my server was running it. It was easy to gear up for it because T7 content was such a joke.

Ulduar had adjustable hard modes like Flame Leviathan, Freya, Yogg-Saron, and Iron Council. That's pretty accessible compared to every raid since then, which tosses you right into the deep end on heroic difficulty with nothing inbetween.
85 Tauren Death Knight
1150
10/13/2011 03:17 PMPosted by Tinjai
While you feel Cata has moved the game forward, and in leveling it has, I feel that the whole PVE end of the game took two steps back to the Burning Crusade times and un-did what WotLK accomplished with raiding and PVE content.


The comment was meant towards the overall direction. We're seeing smaller raids, which is a result of the lack of interest in raiding.

Look at the content for the next patch:

3 major storyline 5 mans
Transmog and Void Storage
DMF Island
And another little 8 boss raid

More is being done for the casual player. The VP system changes tick me off a bit, because they still havn't figured out what those should be for... (Which to me it's obvious, a supplement for raiding.) Things are moving in the right direction. We'll have to see what the next expac gives us, because it's starting to look like there's going to be a large amount of development time and money spent on what 95% of the playerbase does, rather than 5%.
90 Human Paladin
6565
It's unfortunate Blizzard is still deciding to put things at one level off the hop..and then nerf it after the top tier have cleared the raids already.
It sort of sends a message that isn't terribly welcoming.
"Hey, you guys can raid too. Just wait till the big kids are done with it first. Then we'll nerf everything so you can do it too." /head pats.


No, it's saying "If you want to raid and think things are too hard go use the nice new LFR finder. It's easier than the normal raid difficulty so you shouldn't have a problem".


But instead of making normals more accessible by more players, they are just adding a dumbed down version that provides...no mounts....no achievements...and lesser gear. Plus you have to work with people you don't know. And judging by what we know of the WoW community...that won't go very well.
It sends the same unwelcoming message, that people aren't welcome in normal raiding.

90 Gnome Warlock
1740
10/13/2011 02:13 PMPosted by Liberalism
This is what I believe is the Central problem with Cata, the effects of that change are far reaching and universally negative.


Actually no, the 10/25m shared lock out has not been universally negative. For those of us that both enjoy the smaller raid size for personal preference or technical limitation reasons and those of us that dislike being forced to carry 15 trade pugs through 25s just for progression purposes it's been a boon beyond belief. The fact that 10s are so popular compared to 25s, even when 10s are tuned more tightly than 25s due to lack of rezs and output, shows just how unpopular the 25m raid model actually was amongst most raiders.
90 Human Mage
16360
10/13/2011 03:30 PMPosted by Ryegeleye
How do you solve it? Tell them to man the !@#$ up or be content with wiping because they refuse to dedicate the 2 minutes it takes to identify a problem and offer a solution.


Or you go back to having a Wrath level of difficulty with those 10 man normals which was perfect for the people who now feel normals to be too painful. Or people quit which is what's been happening and I assume is something Blizzard isn't liking.
90 Gnome Warlock
1740
10/13/2011 03:34 PMPosted by Alein
But instead of making normals more accessible by more players, they are just adding a dumbed down version that provides...no mounts....no achievements...and lesser gear.


This is good. It means that if "not enough people are clearing it" becomes a forum complaint they can nerf the Elmo's First Raid version rather than breaking normals (and to a lesser extent, heroic modes).
Edited by Bomdanil on 10/13/2011 3:37 PM PDT
85 Blood Elf Priest
6105

Least accessible? What's your reasoning behind that? Are you just looking at people who did it on 25, 10? When it was current, practically every guild on my server was running it. It was easy to gear up for it because T7 content was such a joke.


Completion rates when it was current on 25m were lower than naxx, toc, or icc. Possibly they would have improved over time, but it's hard to argue that the normal mode wasn't harder than any of the other normal modes in wrath.
55 Blood Elf Death Knight
480
So, including the entirety of the WoW Population, that percentage is probably around 5%, which is a percentage that correlates back to Vanilla WoW and Burning Crusade times where only 5% of the WoW population back then got to see raid content.

Now we have to wait and see if they do any better with Deathwings Raid b/c if those numbers continue to be like Vanilla and Burning Crusade, only about 0.5% of the WoW Population will kill him (just like C'thun, KT and the Kil'jadan).

Makes me miss the days of Wrath where those numbers were about 12%-20% for all the raids leading upto Lich King and 25% for ICC overall. Much better imho.


Dear Blizzard,

Why can i not like this post more than once?
90 Human Paladin
6565
And just to throw this out here....
I don't consider dailies content, in the true sense. They are repetitive, gated grinds that people who need to supplement their gear feel required to do.
They aren't engaging or terribly interesting. Filler? Maybe. But it's a far cry from alternate content to raiding.
85 Draenei Paladin
1370
be content with wiping because they refuse to dedicate the 2 minutes it takes to identify a problem and offer a solution.
Exaggeration much? Paragon wiped hundreds of time to Rag. Do they suck because it took them more than 2 minutes?

I get what you are saying and I see the logic in your post. It's just that sentences like that undermine your words and upset people. If it really takes you and your group 2 minutes to get a fight mastered even WITH watching strats then you should be competing for world first heroic kills.
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