1.35% of all wow players completed normal FL

100 Night Elf Druid
14945
I think the point he is trying to get across is that the nerfs did nothing to allow casual players to experience FL.

All it did was give elitest douchebag raiders more ammo to refer to people who have never done content bad and terrible.


Honestly I don't know about the rest of the community but I was very greatful for the nerf, my guild stopped raiding after t12 came out due to burnout. and once the nerf came we decided to give it a try and got to Domo the first week. Sure it was a little excessive, but I'm glad it gave us incentive to raid.
90 Gnome Warlock
1740
Now we have to wait and see if they do any better with Deathwings Raid b/c if those numbers continue to be like Vanilla and Burning Crusade, only about 0.5% of the WoW Population will kill him (just like C'thun, KT and the Kil'jadan).

Makes me miss the days of Wrath where those numbers were about 12%-20% for all the raids leading upto Lich King and 25% for ICC overall. Much better imho.


Actually... only about 5% killed LK on normal 25 too, which coincides with the kills for every "end tier" boss (or bosses as is the case with T11) while the content is current. Why people only assume it counts as "raiders in the content" if Ragnaros is getting beaten like a puppy who !@#$ on the carpet is beyond me, because it assumes the other 6 bosses aren't raid fights in and of themselves.
90 Gnome Warlock
1740
10/13/2011 07:23 AMPosted by Ivaredbush
I'm certain there are also alot of people who enjoy the Cataclysm Raid model, but the death of 25 man Raids is evidence that alot of people who once raided, do not.


The death of 25m raiding is the result of people no longer needing to carry people for pure head count. On a great many servers the "25m raids" were a core of 10-15 guild raiders with a bunch of pugs from trade filling a carry quota.
90 Orc Shaman
18715
10/13/2011 09:49 AMPosted by Dincinerator
All it did was give elitest douchebag raiders more ammo to refer to people who have never done content bad and terrible.


As opposed to kind gentle persons such as yourself who would never dare offend a soul.
90 Draenei Paladin
11255
That doesn't count for much then. I have fourteen level 85 characters. Only two of them do any serious raiding.

These numbers don't say much.


Exactly. I have 7 85's but this is the only one that's ever set foot in FL.
90 Night Elf Druid
12745
10/13/2011 07:35 AMPosted by Mnevis
85 characters


Exactly. L2Stats, OP. It's the results of Armory trawling for achievements and includes inactive players, herbalism alts, brand new 85s, strict pvp'ers, and various other characters that don't attempt to raid.

According to WoWprogress, 55% of US PvE guilds have killed Rag. You have to either be trolling or have not the tiniest bit of a clue about the state of the game to think that 98.65% of players have not yet finished normal Firelands.


I'm pretty sure you're more in the "dark" than the OP is if you think 55% of US PVE guilds amounts to anything when compared to the WoW Population.
90 Night Elf Druid
12745
10/13/2011 09:42 AMPosted by Elgreezy


That doesn't count for much then. I have fourteen level 85 characters. Only two of them do any serious raiding.

These numbers don't say much.


This, 1.35% of players is meaningless considering how many alts people carry around nowadays.

Regardless, with the new LFR tool and ezmode difficulty I'm sure that number will skyrocket next tier.


With the exception of Wrath of the Lich King, which Cata has seemingly taken a step back from when it comes to PVE content, this has never been the case. If anything, fewer people will down Deathwing than Firelands unless they make Deathwing easier than Firelands initially was.
Casual players are more "afraid" of grouping with a bunch of jerks than they are the content (imo). I don't think time and difficulty have as much to do with the low numbers who see end game content. I just think that most casuals don't want to put up with all the b.s. that comes with raiding.
90 Night Elf Druid
12745
...where is 1.35% coming from?

Neither graph gives that amount.


Whereas, wowprogress shows about 37K guilds have killed Shannox, which is about 900K players.


Go back and find out how many players have downed any of the other bosses. According to the data posted on MMO Champ, Shannox is the easiest boss by far and the overall statistics are for ALL of Firelands, not just Shannox.

I'm sure the closer you get to Rags, that "900k players" will be much, much less.
90 Night Elf Druid
12745
10/13/2011 11:13 AMPosted by Jonos
Casual players are more "afraid" of grouping with a bunch of jerks than they are the content (imo). I don't think time and difficulty have as much to do with the low numbers who see end game content. I just think that most casuals don't want to put up with all the b.s. that comes with raiding.


Which is why the WotLK model was so amazing. You could pug these groups and since the content was made easier and more accessible to more of the WoW population, people weren't as inclined to be jerks because fewer wipes would occur. I have voiced this opinion often, but I really feel that Blizzard took a Step Forward with WotLK and then took Two Steps Back when Cataclysm came out.
90 Night Elf Druid
12745
Im unsure where you got 1.35% from

2.7 million people sampled
135,000 people have downed Rag

So thats 5%

And thats before you take into account that people have unplayed alts.

I have 4 85s that I have never raided with.

20% of people in that parse have downed reg fl. 1.08% have cleared heroic fl. looks ok to me...


People really need to explain their math.

Last I checked

135000/2700000 =/= 20%

its closer to 5%

and

2300/2700000 =/= 1.08%
its closer to .08%


And Sadly, 5% is still much more terrible than anything we saw in WotLK, I think Ulduar was the "least played" raid instance as far as the WoW Population was concerned and it still had 12% raiding it.
14 Gnome Mage
0
Might be useful to compare the rag stats to the shannox stats to determine what percentage of raiders killed rag.

If only 10% of players are even interested in raiding, that changes the picture quite a bit.
90 Night Elf Druid
12745
Now we have to wait and see if they do any better with Deathwings Raid b/c if those numbers continue to be like Vanilla and Burning Crusade, only about 0.5% of the WoW Population will kill him (just like C'thun, KT and the Kil'jadan).

Makes me miss the days of Wrath where those numbers were about 12%-20% for all the raids leading upto Lich King and 25% for ICC overall. Much better imho.


Actually... only about 5% killed LK on normal 25 too, which coincides with the kills for every "end tier" boss (or bosses as is the case with T11) while the content is current. Why people only assume it counts as "raiders in the content" if Ragnaros is getting beaten like a puppy who !@#$ on the carpet is beyond me, because it assumes the other 6 bosses aren't raid fights in and of themselves.


But that 5% also correlates to the fact that there were just more 10 mans running out there, so while maybe 5% related to 25 man raids, the other part of that 25% related to the abundant 10 mans going through.

In the end, more raiders raiding end game content is much more beneficial to the WoW Population than fewer.
92 Night Elf Warrior
6580
I thought the trends in the samples were pretty interesting. Normal runs steadily grew until about 9/6, then stalled, and Heroric clears were pretty sparse until 9/6, the doubled every week after that. Changes by Blizz aside, it still seems that non first guilds gear up in normal, then do Heroic. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Edited by Loganelf on 10/13/2011 11:27 AM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
12745
Might be useful to compare the rag stats to the shannox stats to determine what percentage of raiders killed rag.

If only 10% of players are even interested in raiding, that changes the picture quite a bit.


It isn't that "only 10% of players are even interested in raiding", it's thats how many ON AVERAGE take the dive to.

In Vanilla and BC, you saw about 5% of the population raiding with 0.5% raiding the End-Expansion Content like C'thun, KT (40man), Kiljaedan.

In WotLK you saw at minimum 12% raiding Ulduar and upto 25% raiding ICC and killing Lich King.

If Blizzard makes raiding more accessible, which they didn't do in Cataclysm until about 3 weeks ago, more people will raid and enjoy themselves while doing it. Does that mean they need to add a 3rd tier of difficulty for the hardcores? maybe, but that is a different discussion.
90 Orc Shaman
18715
Oh I realize there are lots of people that don't give two shakes of a gnome's whisker about raiding. And there are plenty of people floating around who 'would like to' raid but can't find a guild, or the time, or whatever...but also essentially do not raid.

But some of these '0.0005% have finished the content' posts make me think we're judging the difficulty of the game of golf by dividing the number of sub-par rounds at Pebble Beach this year into the entire US population.

Could Firelands, especially Rag, be even more forgiving on normal mode a la ToC? I suppose, sure. It wouldn't hurt me any. I'd be happy for the OP for his Firelands achievement, honestly. But raiding the latest and greatest isn't really a roll-out-of-bed-and-into-cleared-raids business. The OP apparently has spent roughly 5 hours total raiding in Cataclysm, and honestly, I think judging the difficulty of Firelands my way, by WoWprogress kill % rather than total population of toons, is much much more in line with a realistic approach to end-game raiding.

I do realize we're sort of talking about two different issues. One being getting people into raids, and the other being making sure they aren't too terribly hampered in their pursuit of success in the raids they do attempt. It's pretty obvious that the tone of WoW PvE has changed since Late Wrath when trade-chat-link-lowerspire-achievement-25man-pugs were happening constantly. They did make entry-level raiding more unforgiving, and the tone has changed, not entirely for the better or worse, in my opinion, but I am aware of that.

Hopefully, the raidfinder version of Deathwing Raid will bring some of that easy-going pug spirit back. We'll see how it goes I guess.
Edited by Mnevis on 10/13/2011 11:35 AM PDT
85 Night Elf Druid
2100
Hopefully the 'noob' mode of the looking for raid version of Dragon Soul will satisfy those that feel normals are still too hard.

However, I'm not sure that's even the issue with people not raiding. I think people just...don't want to raid.
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