New Talents better not be final product

90 Troll Mage
9360
I'm sort of not liking this feel from the new talent system coming in pandaria, even though its very early.

Now allow me to explain:

You get 6 throughout your leveling process. 6. Not a great feeling of progression. Though no biggie because there will be way more level capped than leveling.

Now, wowhead has a talent calculator for mists of pandaria. I'm very much hoping that isnt the finished product. It seems a little gimpy, dry, and dare i say, homogenized and dull. I ofcourse looked at mage first, and dont see how it seperates one mage from another. Surely there were a couple more suited to pvp and others to pve, but is this supposed to help make characters different? I think they've all become way closer to the same thing.

This approach does not seem like a good path to take, and might be my least favorite part of the expansion when it goes live. I do hope they change it and make it a bit more diverse. But i am one player, a face in the crowd. I want to hear you guys comments on this. In my eyes, its a mistake to implement this talent system, atleast as is. I'm hoping they change it alotttttt or throw it out. Though the latter will probably not happen.

Edit: further down on page 1 and a bit on page 2 i believe i discussed a bit more of what the talent system could be.
Edited by Toshiok on 10/24/2011 5:03 PM PDT
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85 Human Death Knight
8555
Choosing your Spec will make you what you are. The Talents are meant to be something useful to all three specs, and to be something that has no wrong choice.
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11 Gnome Mage
0
They really need to put out an FAQ on this to clear up the core misunderstanding that it seems an awful lot of people have.

You still pick a spec at level 10. You get spells and passive abilities specific to that spec as you level up (the same as if you had put talent points in to the old tree). The talent trees they're showing are something that exist in addition to that to add further customization to your character, and are intended to be things that are a tough choice at every tier.
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80 Draenei Paladin
2020
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Edited by Alexandriah on 7/3/2012 6:07 AM PDT
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90 Troll Mage
9360
Wow haha i'm not afraid to admit i missed it. From the way the message was delivered at blizzcon, it sounded like this was it. But yes i did think that it couldnt be right and i'm glad for you pointing it out that my suspicion from awhile back was wayy off. Makes wayy more sense. Thank you, but i still like the old system better :D
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90 Troll Mage
9360
though this will be the only talents? nothing else customizable outside of spec and 6 talents?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9300
To be completely honest, the new talent idea is terrible.

Now allow me to explain:

You get 6 throughout your leveling process. 6. Not a great feeling of progression. Though no biggie because there will be way more level capped than leveling.

Now, wowhead has a talent calculator for mists of pandaria. I'm very much hoping that isnt the finished product. It seems a little gimpy, dry, and dare i say, homogenized and dull. I dont see how it seperates one mage from another when i was looking at them. Surely there were a couple more suited to pvp and others to pvp, but is this supposed to help make characters different? I think they've all become way closer to the same thing.

Go to your class' pandaria talent calculator and you will find what i mean. So in the case of mage, there will be no fire mage, arcane mage, but rather a mage that can polymorph 2 targets, or one that can polymorph one that is stunned if the polymorph is broken. That is all it comes down to.

I'm thinking a lot more people would rather cookie cutter specs than this to where the game is even more homogenized and your character actually has less of an identity.

Is this due to the bigger shift to pvp? Bearing in mind that pvp is the afterthought of the game and pve was what attracted more players and the lack of it being a major feature with a major lore character in pandaria to kill will lose more players as well.

This expansion is going the completely wrong way to be honest. But i am one player, a face in the crowd. I want to hear you guys comments on this. In my eyes, its a mistake to implement this talent system, atleast as is. I'm hoping they change it alotttttt or throw it out. Though the latter will probably not happen.

Final statement: the talent system introduced at blizzcon for mists of pandaria is so homogenized and goes completely against what the devs said they were aiming for and also seems to hurt pve-ers a lot in that you as a character have little identity and very few abilities set you apart from a pvper. In my case, seperating a frost mage and an arcane mage. In pandaria, it will just all be mages, and a difference between them will be whether or not they have the spell Slow or they have Blast Wave.



I completely agree, and have posted something similar to you several times.

Pre-Cata we had choices. There was theorycrafting and hybrid specs. Maybe they were gimped, but not EVERYONE had the exact same spec.

In Cata, there are usually 3-5 points you can spend where you like, otherwise, everyone will have the exact same spec.

In Mists, there will be one spec for each thing in the game (be it bosses, trash, PvP, PvE, tanking, healing, ect.) There will be no "play" talents except for ones that don't matter. Only choices that don't matter will have options, in which case, since they don't matter, why's it important?


Blizzard is going for balance, for all they say they want individuality and less cookie-cutter specing. If they REALLY wanted individuality and less cookie cutter specing, they'd go back to the pre-Cata 51 point trees. There we had options and could experiment.

With Cata, we've had most of that taken away.

With Mists, we will no longer have talent trees (as trees is plural). We will have a "class perk system". People can call it talents all they want, but it's like perks/advanced class skills. There will be no more talent trees in Mists.


And this makes me a sad panda. :(
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9300
They really need to put out an FAQ on this to clear up the core misunderstanding that it seems an awful lot of people have.

You still pick a spec at level 10. You get spells and passive abilities specific to that spec as you level up (the same as if you had put talent points in to the old tree). The talent trees they're showing are something that exist in addition to that to add further customization to your character, and are intended to be things that are a tough choice at every tier.


Yeah, but by removing the active part of putting talent points in your spec tree as you level, it takes away that feeling of becoming more powerful and choosing your character's progression. It takes away from the feeling of progressing.

It also makes the characters pretty much identical to one another, which cuts down on any sense of (or option of) individuality we have now. Even if now (and pre-Cata) our individuality would gimp us, at least we had the option of being a deformed snowflake.


Additionally, they aren't tough choices. Looking at the Paladin ones, I've already figured out exactly which ones are going to be best for what I'll be doing. There are no tough choices, really. There is what will be best in terms of skill and output, and then there will be a few talents that are a matter of personal preference. No hard choices at all.



Now, if they had introduced this as a "class perk system" in ADDITION to our existing talent trees? That'd be cool. Then it'd be an extra layer of customization.

But as it is, it's taking a "barely customizable as it is" system and replacing it with a system that's even less customizable and will have everyone picking basically the same talents as everyone else.


Because this game NEEDS more homogenization!
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90 Troll Mage
9360
and my question in the 4th or 5th comment comes up, thats still a very small amount of choices, so you have spec, and 6 class perks. Sure the perks are marginally more difficult to decide on but at the end of the day there is still too much homogenization going on. I remember back in the day, in classic, you could honestly build classes, mix and match. I beleive rogue and warlock were very good for this, maybe others.

So theyre afraid of players gimping their characters because of a sub-optimal spec? Well let them. If they don't want to play the optimal way to play, let them. I wouldnt mind going back to those kind of talents where you could really build a class from the ground up, and you could gimp your character, but it would perform the way you desired it to.

I think that there should be extensive dev time to redo the talents to where you build a class from the ground up. There could be some talents that once selected locked others off, but only talking about the major ones, similar to the single talent tree now except you can spec in multiple trees.

If they want characters to distinguish themselves from others, than make the talent system so indepth and with a great deal of tough choices that you build your class from the ground up, somewhat similar to dare i say? Rift?

Though single tree dependant classes may not benefit from this, like prot warrior for example, possibly those trees can become very extensive to the point that you can have 2 very different prot warriors who might be better at different things.
Edited by Toshiok on 10/23/2011 7:00 PM PDT
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85 Troll Druid
8420
honestly only 5 of those 30 talents are worthy or designed for moonkin use, the other 11-12 talents are purely Feral and the rest have a mixed use between resto and feral again.
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Community Manager
They really need to put out an FAQ on this to clear up the core misunderstanding that it seems an awful lot of people have.

You still pick a spec at level 10. You get spells and passive abilities specific to that spec as you level up (the same as if you had put talent points in to the old tree). The talent trees they're showing are something that exist in addition to that to add further customization to your character, and are intended to be things that are a tough choice at every tier.


We'll be playing cleanup for sure, but thanks for laying it out there so concisely.
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85 Gnome Rogue
4240
They really need to put out an FAQ on this to clear up the core misunderstanding that it seems an awful lot of people have.

You still pick a spec at level 10. You get spells and passive abilities specific to that spec as you level up (the same as if you had put talent points in to the old tree). The talent trees they're showing are something that exist in addition to that to add further customization to your character, and are intended to be things that are a tough choice at every tier.


We'll be playing cleanup for sure, but thanks for laying it out there so concisely.

Why even call them talents? It's a dumbed down path of the titans. Talents are being completely removed.
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90 Tauren Shaman
17120
I hope this will make balancing pvp and pve much more simple for you. I still think that your spells should change base dps/heal and proc chance when you go into a pvp area.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
7905
If picking 6 talents means that I have 6 choices, that is actually way more than I ever got having a cookie cutter spec with 2 floating points.
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90 Human Priest
17435
I would love it to be every 5 levels, myself. I see this getting kinda weird at level 95.
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87 Undead Rogue
8065
As long as the choices are completely balanced i think this is a really good idea. Take rogues for example, the tier 3 talents are shadowstep, prep and burst of speed. All 3 of the choices give mobility, so you still keep the same mobility, you are just getting it in different ways. it really adds customization.

i like it
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85 Draenei Hunter
7480
Hmmm... how is it NOT homogenized now? When you wanna do the best dps, you had better have points in X, Y, and Z talents. Some person finds the best way (that works for them), posts it on elitist jerks, then everyone copies it. I like that they are redoing the talent tree. I also hope that it will improve other under-utilized specs.
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90 Troll Mage
9360
10/23/2011 07:32 PMPosted by Dragonkiss
Hmmm... how is it NOT homogenized now? When you wanna do the best dps, you had better have points in X, Y, and Z talents. Some person finds the best way (that works for them), posts it on elitist jerks, then everyone copies it. I like that they are redoing the talent tree. I also hope that it will improve other under-utilized specs


good point, though do notice i never said it wasnt homogenized now. By all means, it is. But i like that a bit better than whats coming in pandaria.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13515
From what I understand, there'll be plenty of skills and talents you gain by simply picking your specialization. The talent trees are there so that you can tailor your character to what you like.

Many of the talent choices provide either passive bonuses or active ones. For example, you might ask yourself this question: "Would I prefer to get resources passively while performing my role, or would I like to decide when I get them?" The hunter tree has a good example of this with choosing Fervor or Thrill of the Hunt at tier 5, or level 75.

If everyone remembers the talent system in Cataclysm beta when it was announced, the deal was that you'd gain new spells and abilities for the more talents you spent in your talent tree. The MoP talent system simplifies this by simply giving you the talents as you level because you selected your specialty. I'm sure things like Beacon of Light, in my case, will be granted via specialization or as I level as Holy, versus having to wait until I have a talent point I can spend on it in my current talent tree.
Edited by Denarius on 10/23/2011 7:50 PM PDT
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3 Blood Elf Paladin
0
They really need to put out an FAQ on this to clear up the core misunderstanding that it seems an awful lot of people have.

You still pick a spec at level 10. You get spells and passive abilities specific to that spec as you level up (the same as if you had put talent points in to the old tree). The talent trees they're showing are something that exist in addition to that to add further customization to your character, and are intended to be things that are a tough choice at every tier.


We'll be playing cleanup for sure, but thanks for laying it out there so concisely.



I hope you guys take a look at the paladin talents... they seem really dull and uninteresting compared to the other class trees
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