Unholy DK stat parity: Minions included!

90 Draenei Death Knight
12775
If that's the point then it's wrong and failing at basic comprehension. The dev did not say the ghoul could not get crit fixed because it messes with stat weights. He made a broader point that he felt unholy needed more balance across secondary stat weights and that would be looked at during overhaul changes, which will happen in 5.0 along with all the other overhaul changes so as not to upset things mid expansion.

In other words. He ignored pet not getting crit as being insignificant. He made a broader point of what he felt needed fixing in the spec and gave an indication of when that work would be done.

Comprehension. It helps.


The underlying premise of Heartless's question was about pet scaling. The developer extrapolated that into a larger point. All this thread does is deal with that underlying premise.
Edited by Pennyrush on 10/25/2011 4:53 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Death Knight
6415
10/25/2011 04:43 PMPosted by Pennyrush
The underlying premise of Heartless's question was about pet scaling. The developer extrapolated that into a larger point. All this thread does is deal with that underlying premise.


I disagree. The dev shifted the focus away from something that is irrelevant (pet getting crit) and into something that isn't, secondary stat balance. It's a way of saying "That's not really important, but here is something that is and we are working on it for 5.0 since it involves major changes"

This thread merely foolishly tries to shift the attention back to the unimportant.
Edited by Córt on 10/25/2011 5:21 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Human Death Knight
11210

During the 2011 blizzcon class Q&A one of the devs said:

"The Unholy Death Knight is probably one of the less successful specs in terms of our goal of making sure that all stats, all secondary stats are equally attractive. ummm. That's something that we dont have any short term plans to currently address"

"one of the problems with drastically changing statweights in the middle of an expansion is that it forces people to completely change around their current gear, their reforging, and their gemming, and that can be very disruptive."

"so while the current situation isn't ideal, a heavily disruptive change might be even worse."


Yeah, I'm quoting myself. deal with it.

One of the ways (the most elegant way) of making sure our secondary stats are attractive is to let the stupid pets benefit from crit. The devs agree that it is an issue but . . .
WILL NOT DO IT DUE TO DISRUPTING STAT PRIORITIES!!!

We all know that unholy has 1001 issues with everything from AOE to target swapping.

One of those issues is where crit is so damn bad for us we would go back a half tier just to hold on to gear with haste/anything but crit.
Reply Quote
85 Orc Death Knight
9565
It's really sad that the dev's at blizzcon just completely brushed off the question heartless asked to focus on what they want to do in the future instead of addressing a known issue now.

That being said maybe we can get a better dialogue going with them on the q and a on thursday.
Reply Quote
She's cute.



It's really sad that the dev's at blizzcon just completely brushed off the question heartless asked to focus on what they want to do in the future instead of addressing a known issue now.

That being said maybe we can get a better dialogue going with them on the q and a on thursday.


Lot of this. Her question was one of the few legit mechanical questions asked during the Q/A sessions, and they got brushed off or redirected into completely unrelated BS. But then some people ask about mounting with noggenfogger, more qt hunter pets, and the crowd goes wild. =/
Reply Quote
- World of Warcraft
90 Undead Death Knight
12720
If that's the point then it's wrong and failing at basic comprehension. The dev did not say the ghoul could not get crit fixed because it messes with stat weights. He made a broader point that he felt unholy needed more balance across secondary stat weights and that would be looked at during overhaul changes, which will happen in 5.0 along with all the other overhaul changes so as not to upset things mid expansion.

In other words. He ignored pet not getting crit as being insignificant. He made a broader point of what he felt needed fixing in the spec and gave an indication of when that work would be done.

Comprehension. It helps.


The question is why does Blizzard feel like unbalanced secondary stats is a problem? The answer is that it leads to stacking one stat while ignoring others. This doesn't make for very compelling decisions when gearing and also makes it harder to itemize loot in a way that makes all classes happy. Look at most of the gear in Dragon Soul, there's a lot of crit on it which is relay unfortunate for Unholy.

Yes doing some major redesign in 5.0 will allow for addressing this problem, and problems like AoE (Which get helped by the new talent system).

But the point of this thread is that there is a small change they can make which will alleviate these problems in the short term. Sure buffing Unholy Mastery will correct dps but it doesn't make gearing choices any more interesting.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Hunter
16400
Ghoul: Now benefits from the master's critical strike rating

Contagion: In addition, when your disease or Unholy Blight periodic effects deal a critical strike, you have a 25/50% chance to activate the Runic Corruption effect.

Just some brainstorming.
Edited by Bullettime on 10/27/2011 12:21 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
4790
Fixing it is easy, and wishlisting is fun. The trick, as always, is getting the devs to agree. In this case we already know they won't do it.
Reply Quote
85 Human Death Knight
11210
Okay so now that it is official that the Tier 13 Stats will include gobs of Critical Strike rating . . . and a deficiency of Haste . . . is it allright to ask for stat value parity?
Reply Quote
61 Tauren Shaman
9525
Of course not.
Reply Quote
Community Manager
To be clear -- the bug preventing minions from inheriting crit from the DK has been fixed for 4.3.

Our point at Blizzcon was this -- we have a responsibility to adjust stat values as little as possible from patch to patch, because if we swing them wildly, players then feel like they have to constantly adjust their stats (through gems and reforging). It's likely that Unholy DKs will still not value crit as much as other secondary stats, even with the bug fixed.

We apologize for missing the actual nuance of the question at Blizzcon. It’s sometimes hard for the panelists to hear or understand the exact point that the player is getting at (they have to contend with bright lights, sound equipment echoes, and calls for buffs from people in the audience). We didn’t want to make things awkward by asking for the question to be repeated more than once.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warrior
18315
edit

Edited by Steelfrenzy on 10/28/2011 8:07 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
Woooooo! I don't play unholy, but still, WOO!

Fury Warriors are set to recieve a 5% nerf to damage across the board. Your statement does not hold water for many players.

Uhhh. Stat WEIGHTS. Nerfing or buffing overall damage does not change stat weights.
Edited by Krinu on 10/28/2011 2:53 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Shaman
10145
10/28/2011 02:51 PMPosted by Steelfrenzy
Our point at Blizzcon was this -- we have a responsibility to adjust stat values as little as possible from patch to patch, because if we swing them wildly, players then feel like they have to constantly adjust their stats (through gems and reforging).


Fury Warriors are set to recieve a 5% nerf to damage across the board. Your statement does not hold water for many players.


That has nothing to do with stat values, genius.
Reply Quote
85 Troll Death Knight
10560
To be clear -- the bug preventing minions from inheriting crit from the DK has been fixed for 4.3.

Our point at Blizzcon was this -- we have a responsibility to adjust stat values as little as possible from patch to patch, because if we swing them wildly, players then feel like they have to constantly adjust their stats (through gems and reforging). It's likely that Unholy DKs will still not value crit as much as other secondary stats, even with the bug fixed.

We apologize for missing the actual nuance of the question at Blizzcon. It’s sometimes hard for the panelists to hear or understand the exact point that the player is getting at (they have to contend with bright lights, sound equipment echoes, and calls for buffs from people in the audience). We didn’t want to make things awkward by asking for the question to be repeated more than once.


Thank you for the clarification (and communication)!

This is good news.

Please fix Howling Blast's ancillary AoE not hitting secondary targets behind the DK now. :(
Edited by Nijeak on 10/28/2011 3:12 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
12775
10/28/2011 02:27 PMPosted by Kaivax
To be clear -- the bug preventing minions from inheriting crit from the DK has been fixed for 4.3.


This is great news. Thank you!

10/28/2011 02:27 PMPosted by Kaivax
Our point at Blizzcon was this -- we have a responsibility to adjust stat values as little as possible from patch to patch, because if we swing them wildly, players then feel like they have to constantly adjust their stats (through gems and reforging). It's likely that Unholy DKs will still not value crit as much as other secondary stats, even with the bug fixed.


Do you still have that responsibility even if we stack 1 secondary stat while disregarding the others? At 2010 Blizzcon, in the interview with Direct TV, GC called that "broken." Why the two positions?

In terms of valuing crit above other stats, I believe this will move crit above Mastery.

We apologize for missing the actual nuance of the question at Blizzcon. It’s sometimes hard for the panelists to hear or understand the exact point that the player is getting at (they have to contend with bright lights, sound equipment echoes, and calls for buffs from people in the audience). We didn’t want to make things awkward by asking for the question to be repeated more than once.


We understand. This thread wasn't intended to do more than point out a few facts.
Edited by Pennyrush on 10/28/2011 3:17 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Death Knight
13810
To be clear -- the bug preventing minions from inheriting crit from the DK has been fixed for 4.3.

Our point at Blizzcon was this -- we have a responsibility to adjust stat values as little as possible from patch to patch, because if we swing them wildly, players then feel like they have to constantly adjust their stats (through gems and reforging). It's likely that Unholy DKs will still not value crit as much as other secondary stats, even with the bug fixed.

We apologize for missing the actual nuance of the question at Blizzcon. It’s sometimes hard for the panelists to hear or understand the exact point that the player is getting at (they have to contend with bright lights, sound equipment echoes, and calls for buffs from people in the audience). We didn’t want to make things awkward by asking for the question to be repeated more than once.


First of all, thank you very much for the response and for the bug fix! We appreciate it! :)

I'm curious about one of your statements however: "It's likely that Unholy DKs will still not value crit as much as other secondary stats, even with the bug fixed."

In the Acherus channel, we'd estimated that Crit would eclipse at least Mastery with this change. It wouldn't go anywhere near Haste or Hit, but it'd still move up the chain slightly.

Did your statement refer to the value of Crit with regards to ALL secondary stats, or only Mastery?
If we were wrong, we'd definitely like to know so that we can see if we made any errors.

In any event, thanks!
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
4790
Yes, thanks for the bug fix!

My feeling is that Magdalena and posse are probably correct and it'll probably beat mastery, but I'm looking forward to seeing the change in simcraft to tell for sure.

This bug fix combined with the unholy might buff and the extreme amount of crit itemized on Dragon Soul drops may actually be enough to make unholy competitive with DW frost.
Edited by Slant on 10/28/2011 3:34 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Warrior
2375
10/28/2011 03:15 PMPosted by Pennyrush
Do you still have that responsibility even if we stack 1 secondary stat while disregarding the others? At 2010 Blizzcon, in the interview with Direct TV, GC called that "broken." Why the two positions?


It's something they want to change, but they can only change it during betas, because it's a "big change".

So we, the players, need to make threads about it during betas. Well, I mean, we did that, but we need to be louder about it. And make more threads.

Kind of like how Blood went this far into the expansion without QoL changes, because we didn't make enough beta threads or something. Just gotta be louder during beta.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
4790
Blood didn't just need QoL changes. DK tanks were fine in T11 for most single-target boss encounters. They only really fell behind in T12H when paladins and warriors managed to stack enough avoidance to become unhittable. At that point DKs could be 2-shot, which made them markedly inferior (and honestly unusable) tanks.

That will largely be addressed in 4.3, when blood won't need to spend FU runes to maintain critical tank debuffs and has additional armor to mitigate large attacks.

This actually came up in the beta forums as a theoretical discussion about tank scaling in future raid tiers, but the devs dismissed it with "we'll fix it when/if it becomes a problem". It did, and they are, for T13. Just a bit too late for DK tanks trying to progress through T12 hardmodes.
Edited by Slant on 10/28/2011 3:43 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]