Crafter's Tome: Mists of Pandaria Wish List

90 Night Elf Druid
11155
Engineers were invited to submit their ideas on the official forums, but the notable lack of any tradeskill information coming out of Blizzcon has prompted me to expand my efforts to all professions. In the interest of brainstorming, I encouraged my readers to submit their complaints on my blog and then built a wish list from their feedback. From there I put together a poll and let them vote on the issues that are most important to them. In addition to my own readers, I invited the Consortium community to vote in our poll. I'm hopeful that this has created a solid base for serious-minded crafters (and some goblins) to share their thoughts on tradeskill improvement. Here are the top ten items we would like to see addressed in the next expansion:

1) Increase the stack size for components to a minimum of 20. For high volume items like enchanting dust, increase stack size to 100 or maybe 200.

2) Please add new recipes to non-gear professions in post-expansion patches. 99% of new recipes in the content patches go to gear-oriented professions while Alchemists, Enchanters and the like typically get little or nothing to look forward to.

3) Please update the interface for professions to enable bulk crafting processes for activities such as milling, prospecting, etc. One of my readers had an excellent suggestion to use the channeled spell mechanic to execute bulk actions.

4) Let us store enchanted scrolls in our enchanting bags!

5) Chaos Orbs are hard to collect on alts who don't run dungeons. It would be good to have another way to earn those. Currently Tailors can still create Dreamcloth (and therefore epic gear) without grouping. Other crafting toons are chained to the chaos orb mechanic. Since the new expansion is supposed to bring alternate ways for players to accomplish goals, this should be included in the list.

6) Lots of us would like to see gem stacking get fixed, currently gems will not stack when created and we have to manually stack them.

7) Provide a way for players to pass faction gains to their alts, so we don't have to grind the same faction over and over to collect all the recipes on our different crafting toons.

8) Our readers would love some epic chain quests for awesome tradeskill-oriented items like a portable forge, super-sized profession bags or possibly a special soulbound mount. Ideally these epic quest chains would not require PVE or PVP.

9) All professions should have the same top end ilevel on items they can craft. Jewelcrafters and Scribes got shafted with their best items being only i346 while Tailors/Smiths/etc were able to make i359 items. Naturally the JC/Scribe items became obsolete in the very first content patch and they have gotten no meaningful items to replace them.

10) There is strong interest in having special crafting titles such as Tinker, Scribe, Smith, Tailor, etc. We would prefer that the titles be earned by something more significant than just capping a profession. Possibilities include learning say 90% of all recipes from that profession (or some other firm number that equates to the same). An excellent reader suggestion was for titles be tied to how many crafts you've done within the profession, similar to the guild achievements (1000/2500/5000/etc).

We had over fifty different ideas and suggestions in our poll that didn't make the top ten but still have merit in their own right. If you're looking for more ideas you can see the full poll results here:

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/540061/results

We also had lots of awesome feedback in our original "Complain About Professions Day" post. If you'd like to get more details and context on the ideas that went into the poll, you can review the original blog post and commentary here:

http://kaliope.crafterstome.com/2011/10/complain-about-professions-day.html

Thank you for inviting us to share our feedback on Engineering and I hope you don't object to the expansion of that notion =)
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96 Troll Hunter
13800
Professions need love too! 1, 3, 4, and 6 would be highest on my wish list, but all of these points would be welcome improvements to crafting!
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85 Orc Warlock
15100
1. Yes please.

2. I agree with this but top end recipes (for any profession) should not be on a trainer but should be BoP drops that are spread among farmable non-instanced mobs, some mobs inside instances, and of course dungeon and raid bosses. Crafters should have to explore and ocmplete content to get BiS crafting patterns.

3. Yes and the channeled spell idea is fantastic!

4. Yes please.

5. See my repsonse to point 2. Crafter alts shouldn't be able to stay parked in cities and produce BiS gear.

6. Yes and I believe this is fixed in the current PTR build. I'll test later on my DK and repost.

7. No. Reputation grinds are one of the very few gating mechanisms left in the game. This would also give vetran players an extreme advantage over newer players and is something Blizzard has said before they will not do just for this reason.

8. I really like this idea and would like to see it fleshed out more. When you say not contain PVE I sssume you are refering to raid and dungeon content and I can understand that but I do think an "epic" quest line requires some group quests and stages to feel right.

9. Yes I can see this.

10. Would be interesting and would like to see the idea fleshed out more.

Just my two copper.

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85 Goblin Priest
8655
[War Fan] Tanking fist weapon crafted by...tailors!!! Character who equips it has their race's racial symbol on it. [Whimsical Fan] being the same thing, but for healers. [Concealed War Fan] as the final one, for agility based DPS classes.

[Chu-Ke Nu] As a crossbow weapon made by leatherworkers. Why leatherworking? Because leatherworkers can be given a new ability when killing mobs to loot wood from them! This will allow the first profession that can craft stave weapons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeating_crossbow

[Ornate Mechanical Cricket] Not a combat pet! Comes with 20 charges. Gives a chance to lockpick anything like a rogue does at endgame level, but has the success rate of a Gnomish Pocket Knife. If it fails, it consumes a charge. Only useable by engineers. Requires only a small amount of metal, but expensive gems normally used in Jewelcrafting.

[Terracotta Soldier] An earthen dwarf non-combat pet. Flavor text states the beard it's a strange looking panderen.
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2. I agree with this but top end recipes (for any profession) should not be on a trainer but should be BoP drops that are spread among farmable non-instanced mobs, some mobs inside instances, and of course dungeon and raid bosses. Crafters should have to explore and ocmplete content to get BiS crafting patterns.

5. See my repsonse to point 2. Crafter alts shouldn't be able to stay parked in cities and produce BiS gear.

6. Yes and I believe this is fixed in the current PTR build. I'll test later on my DK and repost.

7. No. Reputation grinds are one of the very few gating mechanisms left in the game. This would also give vetran players an extreme advantage over newer players and is something Blizzard has said before they will not do just for this reason.

8. I really like this idea and would like to see it fleshed out more. When you say not contain PVE I sssume you are refering to raid and dungeon content and I can understand that but I do think an "epic" quest line requires some group quests and stages to feel right.

10. Would be interesting and would like to see the idea fleshed out more.

Just my two copper.


Gah, sorry! Changed to Eng toon to see recipe count and now I can't get Kaliope back on the avatar thing. My bad - still Kaliope talking :)

2) In my "mega list" I had a line item for static drop BoP recipes to be brought back, but had to cut it for brevity's sake. I wouldn't expect top-end recipes to be on trainers. I would love to see more solo-farm options though.

5) I know some players feel that way, but many of my readers are unhappy that raiders get all the good stuff. They feel it's unfair to lock them out of all the best recipes when they represent the majority of players. I think a happy medium may be to have some top-end recipes be available to both groups.

6) Hadn't heard this but will test it out as well, thanks for the heads-up.

7) I was thinking more of new MoP factions than old factions in this particular suggestion. Perhaps a reasonable compromise would be something like they did in Wrath where an exalted toon could purchase BoA tokens and mail them to an alt, which could be used to increase faction.

8) I'm sure Blizzard folks would be better at designing quest content than me, but my readers were pretty firm on the bit about no PVP or PVE being required. They want the epic crafting quests to be about crafting, not combat.

Off the top of my head I think some possibilities might include things like the Alchemy specialization quests (turning in 5 primal mights was a big project back in the day) or activities similar to the opening of the AQ gates where we turned in massive amounts of bandages, armor kits, cooked food, etc. I loved that content and felt that my crafting was useful during that event. We also had the awesome fishing quest from Nat Pagle that took you all over the world catching special fish. An epic chain quest involving those types of activities would be a good foundation. You could also sprinkle in some steps that mirror the profession achievements we had in Cata (make 1500 epics, make 500 feasts) but on a scale appropriate to the single player.

I think an epic quest chain that focused primarily on activities like these would be acceptable and yet still epic :) You wouldn't even need to design 8 different quest chains. Just plot out one chain and have the others closely mirror the original design with profession-appropriate adjustments.

10) Well I'm not sure how much more I could flesh this out without actually doing the design, but let's say we wanted to let Engineers earn the title of Tinker. Currently there are 298 Engineering recipes in the game, so if we base the title on recipes, you'd need to know 269 of them (90% learned) to unlock the title.

If you went the "items crafted" route, it takes 75 crafts to cap out a profession in a new expansion. For personal use you might use the skill another 25-50 times. So we could stipulate that in order to get the achievement title, you'd have to execute 250 craft actions in Engineering. That would pretty much only happen if you were actively using the profession for purposes beyond personal needs. A profession such as Jewelcrafting would need higher numbers since it's a more volume based craft.

I'm sure Blizzard has numbers that show what personal use vs active crafting looks like. The main goal that I'm sensing from my readers is they want to see titles and epic quest chains that will set them apart from casual crafters (aka raiders) who only take professions for min/max reasons and don't really use them. Just like a raider wants a title or mount to show he cleared heroic raid content, our crafters are saying they'd like titles to show that they are passionate about tradeskills and put significant time and effort into them.
Edited by Kayree on 11/2/2011 8:14 PM PDT
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85 Orc Warlock
15100

5) I know some players feel that way, but many of my readers are unhappy that raiders get all the good stuff. They feel it's unfair to lock them out of all the best recipes when they represent the majority of players. I think a happy medium may be to have some top-end recipes be available to both groups.


I can get that and I've always said TBC had the system nearly perfect. I'll use enchanting as an example since it's one I know well.

There were one or two formulas that were on each factional vendor and required Revered or higher with that faction.

There were three BOE world drops formulas.

There were several that were BOP and farmable from non-instanced mobs scattered in the world with a low enough drop rate to make them valueable. Examples include spell power to bracers off the ogres in BEM, Arcane resistance to cloak off the guys in the path of glory in SMV, and +30 intellect to weapon off mobs in Netherstorm.

Each of the five man dungeons had a few (usually 5-9 but in some cases like the Arcatraz only 3) mobs which had a reasonable 1-2% chance to drop a BOP formula that was instance and mob specific.

There were a handfull of BOP formula in the entry raid of the expansion.

This system meant playes had to go farm with the toon that could use it. You couldn't simply park a toon, never adventure or quest with it, and have everything BiS for it. I'll be the first to agree that everything shouldn't be locked away in raids but I think it is equally absurd for a "crafter alt" who never does anything beyond simply level to have all the recipes available to them.

Off the top of my head I think some possibilities might include things like the Alchemy specialization quests (turning in 5 primal mights was a big project back in the day) or activities similar to the opening of the AQ gates where we turned in massive amounts of bandages, armor kits, cooked food, etc. I loved that content and felt that my crafting was useful during that event. We also had the awesome fishing quest from Nat Pagle that took you all over the world catching special fish. An epic chain quest involving those types of activities would be a good foundation. You could also sprinkle in some steps that mirror the profession achievements we had in Cata (make 1500 epics, make 500 feasts) but on a scale appropriate to the single player.


Those are some good examples and I'll admit I hadn't thought of those. I remember the Nat Paegle quest and I think it was the one to learn fishing skill past 225 a long time ago if I remember correctly.

I remember turning in the four primal mights as well. The thing with a system like that is the epic chain becomes simply log in and scan the Ah for materials, use your cooldown, rinse and repeat for however many days it takes.

A quest chain should require going out in the world, traveling, and doing stuff ala the Nat Paegle quest you mentioned. It should not be completeable by an alt who does nothing but stand in a city and craft.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11155
[quote]

I can get that and I've always said TBC had the system nearly perfect. I'll use enchanting as an example since it's one I know well.

You couldn't simply park a toon, never adventure or quest with it, and have everything BiS for it. I'll be the first to agree that everything shouldn't be locked away in raids but I think it is equally absurd for a "crafter alt" who never does anything beyond simply level to have all the recipes available to them.

A quest chain should require going out in the world, traveling, and doing stuff ala the Nat Paegle quest you mentioned. It should not be completeable by an alt who does nothing but stand in a city and craft.


I completely agree with both of these points. By having a variety of recipe sources (ala TBC) you have static drops which are easily farmable as a solo project. For those who truly hate grouping, static drops and rep grind recipes are still within reach. Players who enjoy groups can grab the dungeon and raid drops. In this situation there's an even distribution of patterns for each type of player.

And absolutely an epic quest chain should get that toon out into the world and interacting in some fashion. While there might be a step that can be done in "city camp" mode, the bulk of the steps should be closer to the Nat Pagle scenario or the AQ-style provision quest.

Another awesome quest that might fit this situation was the old druid epic flying quest. We were forced to use a wide range of our abilities. An epic quest chain for professions could be similar: use your transmutes for this quest giver, make some potions for another, maybe collect special herbs in an obscure location (like the mushroom herbs in Zangarmarsh).

For Tailors they could be asked to provide Mooncloth (which you cannot do in a city) or one of the other location-based cloth items as part of their chain. There's lots of possibilities and six years of Blizzard's quest ingenuity to draw from :) I think it's pretty feasible with the mechanics they already have in place and a bit of creativity on the exploration angle. I don't think it would be that hard to implement either, but I'd love to see it.
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94 Human Paladin
5615
Kaliope makes some good points here. I don't do raids as a general rule, my internet connection is highly intermittent and variable speed in spite of paying through the nose. Rather than causing wipes because Qwest/CenturyLink provides poor service, I quest, farm and craft so my abrupt changes in lag time and frequent D/C don't cause trouble for others. I pay Blizzard the same as UberHardcoreRaider, but am thinking that it's not that great a deal and I should quit.
Blizzard would know, my guess is that the raiders make up a minority of players, and chumps like me are more common. So, what about that shrinking profit margin, Blizzard? Perhaps the current dance raids aren't the only way to keep your fan base? If building stuff isn't interesting, why is Farmville so popular?
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90 Night Elf Druid
11155
I think you are feeling the same frustration that my blog peeps feel Brasidaes. Many of them are not raiders and they feel locked out of the high level crafting they want to do. I know that the prevailing logic is that raiders need the recipes to do raid content and non-raiders don't need BiS recipes because they don't do raid content. So the recipes drop in raids to get them into the hands of raiders and non-raiders are not a priority. I certainly can't argue with that.

On the other hand, some players (and I include myself here) avoid raids and heroics because of the drama that we're subjected to, not because we have a problem with group content. I think the flaw in the logic of only giving raiders the raid-level recipes is that raiders aren't crafters. Most don't share what they have, they just sit on it. Meanwhile I regularly see players spamming trade chat to find someone to make them a 365/378 item and they can't get a response. The truly sad part is that I can make some of these items, I just don't have the orbs. I would be happy to help out and put my items up for sale, but I have a hard time dealing with the dungeon finder denizens. Putting up with pugs just isn't worth it to me. I feel bad for not being able to make stuff that people clearly want, but most nights I just can't stomach the thought of being verbally abused in order to get the orbs.

The reality is the the community has changed and I know that has influenced the play choices of a good number of us. I've heard this same lament from most of my long-time guildmates. We probably can't put the genie back in the bottle, but I sure hope Blizzard can find a way to work things out favorably.
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86 Human Death Knight
8235
What I would like to see for recipes is a multi-vectored approach to their entry into the economy. If a high-end recipe would normally be available as a raid drop, add alternate non-raid paths to obtaining that same recipe through similar time investment.

For example:
  • PvP - Each time a character earns honor for a kill (not necessarily killing blow), have a very small chance a random recipe for the player's profession(s) is 'found on the enemy' (something like 0.1%) and mailed to the player (Something like "Hey, we found this on the corpse of an enemy you killed and thought you might have a use for it").

  • PvE - Have each final boss of heroic instances have a small chance to drop raid recipes (significantly less of a chance than raids)

  • Questing/Crafting - Add one lengthy, involved quest (based only on soloable non-instance mobs and turning in items crafter with that profession) per class which requires a suitable amount of time to complete. Have it reward one random drop recipe from the current expansion that the crafter does not already have.
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90 Human Priest
15890
I'm not a fan of the current tailoring situation. I raid. I farmed trash for quite a while in the first week when the recipe drops were higher. I have 3/4 recipes. I am the only tailor in guild with the boots. I have been faithfully keeping dreamcloth on cooldown and making the boots for all of the clothies in our guild who raid.

These recipes are not something that I can make for anyone else because I have a commitment to crafting in guild first. Now that I think I am about done there, I now have to stockpile dreamcloth (BOP) against recipes in the next raid. If dreamcloth were not BOP, then sure, I could make the pattern for other people. However, the way it is, the recipes and all of my dreamcloth cooldowns are reserved for guild.

I would be nice to be able to craft gear in a less restricted manner. I liked the previous model of special cloth being unbound. If you weren't lucky with a recipe, you could look for someone else through realm forums.

----------------

Also, it would be nice if first aid mattered. As a healer, I think it would really add to the triage if the dps could bring some bandages and use them on themselves if they were getting low. (This would require a bit more healing on the bandage and less AoE breaking the bandage effect prematurely). I started playing in BC and have faithfully carrying bandages with me to raids; however, it seems a bit pointless.

----------------

Fishing/cooking: I love fishing. However, having buff food fish (looking at you int/spi food) only available from open water fishing with a 30% drop rate (and 60% or so complete vendor trash) is really frustrating. My entire raid group is eating fortune cookies because it is just so much easily to herb, make ink, make cards, make cookies. Fish that cook up to health only food with no food buff (and vendor less cooked than raw) are disappointing. One of the things that I really liked about fishing in Wrath was that the fish would cook to +hp and +mana when eaten.

Fish feasts are really obnoxious. I miss Wintergrasp and the equal distribution of feast fish. The travel the world plus the 30% drop of the lavascale catfish is why we don't raid with fish feasts.

Cooking/fishing dailies - the wrath ones had much higher replay value. The cooking one was the source of the spices for the high end cooked dishes. The fishing one had a bag with potentially valuable items even after you got the hat, fishing pole, etc. I did the Cata quests until I collected all the recipes for cooking and got each of the individual quests for the meta achievements. The bag of fishing treasures contains low level trash. I have no reason to do either quest again. I would love to see new cooking/fishing quests not available to lower levels so that they can be more rewarding.
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90 Undead Warlock
16980
Personally, I would like to see some balance between the Flasks and the Elixirs. Currently, there are VERY few classes that would consider taking an Elixir over a flask into a Raid and we were TOLD in Wrath that Cata would fix that by making Elixir's 75% as powerful as flasks. Thus, two Elixir's was better then a flask.

While they held up to this, the rebalancing of the stats, (Making Strength, Stamina, Int, Agi and Spirit) more powerful then the secondary stats, by such a Large Margin, as well as the lack of Guardian Elixir's didn't fix this.

How to fix this:

1) Make Elixir's for each stat. I can't put on an Int Elixir, and so, any fight where there is incredibly High AoE healing, for example Beth, I can't even consider a Prismatic elixir. Its not worth the damage loss to go Haste/Prismatic.

2) Make some of the Battle Elixirs Guardian Elixirs. While Haste and Crit should always be Battle, things like Stamina, Mastery, and Spirit, can easily be argued as a Guardian Elixir. In fact, I believe this is the first expansion where the Spirit Elixir was Battle, instead of Guardian.

This could also be fixed by removing the Guardian/Battle restriction entirely, and just saying 'You can either have 1 flask or 2 Elixirs,' while reducing the Elixir's effectiveness to 50%.... I would be happy with that.

3) Fix the Stat gap. Its boring if every class has the same updates gear wise, and hinders multi-tier raiding. I did not mind going back and farming OS every week for my Illustration of the Dragon Soul as that item was good, right up to ToC. And if such an item in a backwards tier was found, in the current expansion or future expansion, no one would have a problem raiding old tier content to get it, or keeping an item past its tier.

But keeping the stats gap, not only annoys the people who want to stack different things, it also annoys the people who want a potion/flask/Elixir of different then int.

4)Make potions for every Stat.... Everyone I know misses the Haste and Crit pots.
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85 Human Warlock
0
Love the idea's here especially.

Shared rep between toons, or BOA recipies!

Dear god would I love this!
Edited by Purevil on 11/13/2011 2:17 AM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
11175
8) I'm sure Blizzard folks would be better at designing quest content than me, but my readers were pretty firm on the bit about no PVP or PVE being required. They want the epic crafting quests to be about crafting, not combat.


Yes and no. I could see the primary focus being on the grafting, but there has to be some gathering (PVE) involved as well - either via the associated gathering profession or via combat, or both.

Your primal might example is a good example, but all one really had to do was shop the AH for for the mights - not very epic.

For an alchemist for example, the quest could be creating several potions/elixirs/flasks/transmutes. The ingredients would be new BOP materials that could be had from existing gathering nodes that only showed up for those on the quest or as drops from world (non-raid and even non-dungeon or non-group) mobs.

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100 Human Warrior
15965
Something more interesting the *gather mats* *go to anvil* *click make button* would be nice. something like clams that attack you or herbalist picking things cooks use or even pets from every proff. Advanced cooking fire? Please?
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90 Night Elf Druid
11155
11/13/2011 02:34 AMPosted by Tashla
Your primal might example is a good example, but all one really had to do was shop the AH for for the mights - not very epic.


The easy solution to the buy instead of farm problem is to design it the same way that the JC dailies and the epic gem quest in WotLK worked. You get credit for making the item -- it doesn't count if you buy it. Any quest that involved crafting/gathering could work that way, the quest just wouldn't count an item you didn't create or gather yourself. They already have the tech to do it and an epic quest is clearly a situation where it should be utilized.
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14 Night Elf Hunter
130
Customization. I wish I could customize the secondary stats on the patterns. I think that would make them more desirable. I agree with any way to get patterns outside of instances and keep profession progression separate. Mats should always be boe and every profession should be able to get epic patterns etc.
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90 Human Paladin
14425
1. Yes please.

2. I agree with this but top end recipes (for any profession) should not be on a trainer but should be BoP drops that are spread among farmable non-instanced mobs, some mobs inside instances, and of course dungeon and raid bosses. Crafters should have to explore and ocmplete content to get BiS crafting patterns.

3. Yes and the channeled spell idea is fantastic!

4. Yes please.

5. See my repsonse to point 2. Crafter alts shouldn't be able to stay parked in cities and produce BiS gear.

6. Yes and I believe this is fixed in the current PTR build. I'll test later on my DK and repost.

7. No. Reputation grinds are one of the very few gating mechanisms left in the game. This would also give vetran players an extreme advantage over newer players and is something Blizzard has said before they will not do just for this reason.

8. I really like this idea and would like to see it fleshed out more. When you say not contain PVE I sssume you are refering to raid and dungeon content and I can understand that but I do think an "epic" quest line requires some group quests and stages to feel right.

9. Yes I can see this.

10. Would be interesting and would like to see the idea fleshed out more.

Just my two copper.
i like these ideas in general but instead of patterns being BoP make them BoA as there is no point running raids on 6 different toons when there are only 6 raiding night with 7th being shutdown, and some raids take multiple nights.
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