Rogue Specs of 5.0 (Mist of Pandaria)

85 Night Elf Rogue
6545
Ok, seeing that the talent trees of rogues are shared and the previous signature moves of each spec have been placed at lvl 90.

What would be the flavor of each spec be?

I as a sub rogue am extremely worried as we were stripped of of more than just a final signature move. Shadow step and Preparation has been placed in a single tier to make it worse.


________________________________________________

Combat:
Sinester Strike
Bandit's Guile
Adrenaline Rush
Revealing Strike
Restless Blades


Assassination:
Mutilate
Envenom (and poisons)
Backstab (Execute Phase)
Venomous Wounds (Garrotte/rupture)
Cut to the Chase

Subtlety:
Backstab or Hemorrhage (lol almost never used anyways in PvE and PvP)
Find Weakness (Via opener such as ambush)
Sanguinary Veins (Rupture)
Honor among Thieves and Premed ( Extra Combo point builders)

^
(Take note that sub has had the most utility based skill before this theoretical upcoming patch)
See that, subtlety will take a blow in "Specialization"
as blizzard took away a lot of the signature moves of subtlety and placed it on the tier system. Subtlety was supposed to be the stealthy and movement oriented of the 3 spec

And I think we can agree that Shadow dance is a much bigger signature move than Killing Spree and Vendetta.


Will blizz compensate and give subtlety another psuedo move skill/ signature move?

Cause atm, specially in PvP, subtelty can't kill anything outside a smokebomb... and its on a 3 minute cooldown... and also can't kill w/o shadowstep and just be kited as heck.

See the problem there?

Preparation allows for a bit more bearable and fairer amount of kill attempts due to insanely low sustained damage of sub rogues. And ofcourse the reliant of sub rogues on Find weakness debuff that can only be used from an opener.


I would suspend judgement till I see the spec skills that blizz will put on BUT atm if they don't change/compensate much, subtlety will go down the gutter :(

I love sub and its rogueish nature, blizz,do not make it into an immobile wet noodle T_T


P.S.

QQ
Edited by Anohreul on 10/24/2011 7:59 AM PDT
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45 Draenei Shaman
230
Having to choose between Prep and Shadowstep is soul crushing. I can't see myself ever not choosing Prep, so not having a gap gloser is really going to suck.

I really love Sub too and so far MoP looks like it's going to be pretty bad for the spec unless they introduce some good new Sub specific stuff.
Edited by Remyz on 10/24/2011 9:03 AM PDT
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85 Undead Rogue
2240
10/24/2011 09:02 AMPosted by Remyz
I really love Sub too and so far MoP looks like it's going to be pretty bad for the spec unless they introduce some good new Sub specific stuff.

Based on the way they !@#$ed you sub guys over, I'm 98% certain you'll be getting some cool new stuff.


Subtlety:
Backstab or Hemorrhage (lol almost never used anyways in PvE and PvP)

Almost never using hemo in PvP?...
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86 Human Rogue
1815
Let's hope either Prep or Shadowstep swaps place with some less useful talent, so we get to pick both.

I can't picture myself not shadowstepping around or not being able to vanish twice to get out of a dire situation :/

I'd have to gank lowbies to compensate for such frustration. I mean more than I already do.
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
3180
I have one question: Do you really have t chose only One of each tier, I mena, if I want SS and Prep can I go for them, and skip the nex tier talents?
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100 Night Elf Rogue
13885
You'll be able to choose only one of each tier.

The tiers they showed us at BlizzCon are *examples* only. They are not even remotely meant to resemble the actual talents/abilities people will have to choose between once this system is available for beta testing. They just showed us what they showed us to give us a rough idea of how the entire system will work, not so that we would begin picking apart specific listed talent choices.
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90 Human Rogue
6090
Having to choose between Prep and Shadowstep is soul crushing. I can't see myself ever not choosing Prep, so not having a gap gloser is really going to suck.

I really love Sub too and so far MoP looks like it's going to be pretty bad for the spec unless they introduce some good new Sub specific stuff.


/agree
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85 Goblin Rogue
9170
Things I wonder about what happens to optional talents any spec could get now. Like Elusiveness that seem pretty easy you can just lower the cd's baseline. But what about things like Quickening give all rogues 20% healing 15% movement or we just lose it all together. What something like Precision which if it was baseline for all specs would mean rogues would never need hit for pvp.

And then things like Improved Ambush you may say well thats subs thing but with shadowdance being "baseline" this would be something every spec would want for shadowdance to ever be an option.

I should be interesting to see how all that turns out.
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100 Human Rogue
8115
I am not sure how to feel about this until there is more information regarding specializations and ability changes, and possibly any new abilities to compensate.

Although it looks like they went out of their to buff some abilities to make up for losing a few (Vendetta getting a major change, allowing a low energy cost, ranged, combo point generating attack while it's active). With a slow from that weapon (deadly brew or just plain crippling) it would be interesting to see with something like the new Burst of Speed ability, which is basically a shorter sprint with no cooldown, but an energy cost of 60. It either increases your speed or removes all movement-impairing effects (which is something rogues have been asking for some time). But does this mean sprint is getting removed?

At the same time, it seems like they are just completely ignoring other abilities. Shadowstep will no longer increase the damage of the next opener, and in will still have the same cooldown. On top of that, you must choose between that or preparation (which is just plain awful).

Where Killing Spree will now also generate 5 combo points on a target (although it still picks a random target), Shadow Dance remains completely untouched. Unless Finisher and opener damage is significantly increased by comparison, it will just be a signature move to completely avoid.
Edited by Exìtus on 11/2/2011 12:03 PM PDT
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85 Human Rogue
4365
Personally, as painful as it sounds, I would drop Shadowdance for Vendetta. Get Preperation and use Vengeful Strike (from Vendetta) with Paraletic Poison(or Crippling/Deadly Brew) to stun/slow and catch up to your opponent. Don't forget you can combo Vendetta/Vengeful with Deadly Throw if you choose that talent. This is just one solution. However, I have no idea what new moves Blizz has in store for rogues.
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85 Human Rogue
4365
You'll be able to choose only one of each tier.

The tiers they showed us at BlizzCon are *examples* only. They are not even remotely meant to resemble the actual talents/abilities people will have to choose between once this system is available for beta testing. They just showed us what they showed us to give us a rough idea of how the entire system will work, not so that we would begin picking apart specific listed talent choices.


Also a great point. We really have no idea what the actual talent trees will look like. And I assume that since Blizz has plenty of time to change the trees around, there will be some changes.

Things I wonder about what happens to optional talents any spec could get now. Like Elusiveness that seem pretty easy you can just lower the cd's baseline. But what about things like Quickening give all rogues 20% healing 15% movement or we just lose it all together. What something like Precision which if it was baseline for all specs would mean rogues would never need hit for pvp.

And then things like Improved Ambush you may say well thats subs thing but with shadowdance being "baseline" this would be something every spec would want for shadowdance to ever be an option.

I should be interesting to see how all that turns out.


Remember, we still have specs aside from talents and we will be learning spec-based moves and passive abilities as we level. I think that's one thing people forget. I had a Bear tank look at the trees the other day and ask "How will I be able to tank with only 2 tank abilities?" The answer? You won't only have 2 tank abilities. In this case, the tank will be learning Bear-specific abilities as he levels along with his baseline abilities.
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90 Human Rogue
6090
the talent specs you saw were examples... and will be revised a million ways before it goes live
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88 Gnome Rogue
2260
11/04/2011 01:03 AMPosted by Novakane
the talent specs you saw were examples... and will be revised a million ways before it goes live


All the more reason to let developers know why we dislike certain "examples," so that when they are implemented they are implemented better.
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2 Worgen Rogue
0
What do you guys think if they made Shadowstep baseline and increased the CD to a minute-minute and a half? I think that would be a fair solution that would provide some mobility for all specs without being OP.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
That's my only concern really atm. Is the "non-spec" talents.
As a Subtlety Rogue that uses Backstab, Lethality and Puncturing Wounds are very important. I hope they make most of those baseline. Specifically Lethality, Puncturing Wounds, Relentless Strikes and Elusiveness.

Though, I wonder what will happen to Precision.

All the more reason to let developers know why we dislike certain "examples," so that when they are implemented they are implemented better.


People seem to always overlook this. Game developers love feedback.
Edited by Knocrogue on 11/4/2011 2:55 AM PDT
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85 Tauren Druid
4825
10/24/2011 09:50 AMPosted by Kiljagen
Based on the way they !@#$ed you sub guys over, I'm 98% certain you'll be getting some cool new stuff.


*Points to Feral druids losing THEIR mobility*
"Dont worry guys we will get a buff"
*Points to bleed damage nerfed*
"Dont worry guys, we will get that buff eventually"
*points to swipe buff*
"Well, it was exactly what we were looking for but hey its a buff*
*Points to next ptr swipe cut in HALF*
"well now what..."

In essence, dont count on it. They said they only plan to implement 2 new spells/abilities per class next xpac.

Edit: That is if the adjustments to talent tree system is minor for rogues seeing as how rogues usually have the smallest list of changes per patch...
Edited by Caldine on 11/4/2011 10:39 AM PDT
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12 Goblin Mage
30
11/04/2011 02:46 AMPosted by Caleadsey
What do you guys think if they made Shadowstep baseline and increased the CD to a minute-minute and a half? I think that would be a fair solution that would provide some mobility for all specs without being OP.


Prep should be baseline, not shadowstep. Also, that cool down is far too long for arenas.
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92 Human Rogue
3920
Sublety gonna die in MoP ... i see rogues getting doomed !
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100 Night Elf Rogue
13885
Well, that was worth posting to a 10-month-old thread for.
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