Mists - PVP Info Summary and Breakdown

- World of Warcraft
87 Tauren Paladin
10570
Hello everyone, I imagine not everyone spent the weekend watching every panel, interview, and presentation at Blizzcon so I decided to put together a short summary as well as a more in-depth breakdown of all the PVP related information for Mists of Pandaria that was released this weekend. There wasn't a huge amount of information released which may disappoint some people, but the information they did release is promising in my opinion.

Quick Version:

  • Expansion focuses on Horde vs Alliance conflict (what exactly this means for PVP in the long run is uncertain).

  • Three new POTENTIAL battlegrounds based on game types that are new to WoW. (They may not all make it in at launch or at all)

  • STV Diamond Mine (Payload Style)

  • Valley of Power (Murderball Style)

  • Azshara Crater (DOTA Style)

  • One new arena map, Tol'vir Proving Grounds which is based on Nagrand Arena.

  • Renewed focus on NATURAL world PVP (No Tol Barad/Wintergrasp type zone).

  • Resilience made a baseline stat (but still included on PVP gear).

  • Revised talent system (not PVP specific but will have a large impact).


  • Long Version:

    Expansion focuses on Horde vs Alliance conflict (what exactly this means for PVP in the long run is uncertain).
    Chris Metzen touched on this in the reveal for Mists during the opening ceremony saying that one of the central themes of Mists was going to be renewed Horde vs Alliance conflict in the absence of an external threat. How this will affect the importance of PVP in the expansion remains to be seen, however three new battlegrounds would be the most ever included in an expansion so that is a start.


    Three new POTENTIAL battlegrounds based on game types that are new to WoW.
    Cory Stockton responded to my twitter question about these BG's during an interview on the Direct TV stream saying that they are hoping to have all three new BG's in at release, but it remains to be seen if they will meet that goal. The question also asked if they would be 10v10 or 15v15 but he didn't answer that part of the question (probably just forgot) but we know that at least SDM will be 15v15. It does seem that STV Diamond Mine and Valley of Power are currently the more fleshed out concepts as we didn't get a concept map or any real detail on Azshara Crater. I personally wouldn't be surprised to see one or two of these maps pushed back to a post-launch patch, but I live in hope!



    Stranglethorn Diamond Mine (SDM)
  • 15v15

  • A Goblin Mine located below northern STV.

  • Payload Style Gameplay.

  • Escort mine cars to depots scattered throughout the map.

  • There will be multiple tracks the mine cars can run on and players will be able to choose to send them on different paths as they run.

  • Resource Based, first to X resources wins.


  • Here is an enlarged version of the SDM concept map, I also re-did all the text to make it more easily readable.
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/cyberstatic/STVDiamondMineMap.jpg

    Here is the SDM concept art.
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/cyberstatic/STVDiamondMineConceptArt.jpg

    SDM looks like a very interesting map although I am a bit concerned about a few things:
  • It may be overly complicated, and may require a great deal of situational awareness and coordination. A lot of BG players tend to zerg around mindlessly and dont do the best job focusing on objectives. The way this map is designed I can easily see new players getting very confused about where to go and what to do.

  • Allowing a single player to make critical decisions such as where to send a mine cart has the potential to create drama and social discord in pug/random BG's as people are going to disagree about where the carts should be sent and be frustrated when players make what they consider to be poor choices about where to send the carts.

  • If someone needs to sit next to a switch for a large part of the game deciding where to send mine carts it could potentially be quite boring for that player, unless they need to constantly fight to defend the switch.

  • If it's 15v15 that means it may not be included in the RBG map rotation, although they could make a 10v10 version just for rated.


  • Continues in next post.
    Edited by Eldacar on 10/23/2011 4:02 PM PDT
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    - World of Warcraft
    87 Tauren Paladin
    10570
    Valley of Power (VoP or VP)
  • Located in the Vale of Eternal Blossoms.

  • Murderball style gameplay.

  • Teams compete to capture and hold an object in the center of the map.

  • Holding the object earns points.

  • Multiple point zones.

  • More points for standing closer to the center of the map with the object, less for hiding on the outside edges.

  • Object deals damage to holder.

  • Damage from object to holder increases over time.


  • Here is the VOP concept map.
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/cyberstatic/ValleyofPowerMap1R2S.jpg

    Here is a breakdown of the point zones on the map.
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/cyberstatic/ValleyofPowerMap2.jpg

    VOP looks like it will be a ton of fun. It has simple easy to understand gameplay and should make for quick and constant action as well as varied and dynamic strategies and tactics. The map is simple and straight forward, the mechanics are great, this BG will be a huge winner IMO.


    Azshara Crater (AC)
  • Based on DOTA style game play.

  • Set in Azshara.

  • No other real details were given on this, it seems to be the least developed concept thus far, there are no maps or concept art available.

  • Azshara Crater has been in on and off development since vanilla with various ideas as to how it would function. Most likely this newer concept of AC would be a lot different than the older concepts. I personally can't wait to see how the developers intend to adapt DOTA style game play for a WoW BG.


    One new arena map, Tol'vir Proving Grounds (TPG) which is based on Nagrand Arena.
  • Located in Uldum.

  • Simple layout based on Nagrand Arena.

  • Sense of place in the world.

  • Simple square shape with 4 square shaped pillars.


  • Here is the map for Tol'vir Proving Grounds.
    http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/cyberstatic/TolvirmaptopR2S.jpg

    This should be a nice addition to the arena map rotation and should provide some much needed additional variety as long as they can make sure it is clean and doesn't have any nasty geometry issues.


    Renewed focus on NATURAL world PVP (No Tol Barad/Wintergrasp type zone).
    The developers stated a few times, primarily in an interview with Tom Chilton by Direct TV, that they want to re-emphasize natural world PVP in Mists and move away from the kind of artificial world PVP created by wintergrasp and tol barad. The two ways they mentioned they were going to encourage this were by pushing players together more while questing, and through the addition of old-school style world raid bosses similar to the original Azergos. As guilds try to down these world bosses players of the opposite faction will naturally show up to gank and wipe them. They also very briefly mentioned the possibility of adding incentives for raiding enemy towns/quest hubs (level appropriate of course, no lowbie stomping). I am personally all for these changes and I think they will make world PVP much more fun. Good world PVP can't be scheduled and heavily structured, it needs to just happen on its own spontaneously, at least IMO.

    Resilience made a baseline stat (but still included on PVP gear).
    This change is aimed at making PVP more accessible to poorly geared or PVE geared characters by providing a baseline amount of resil to everyone. PVP gear will still provide additional resilience and will still be the best gear for PVP. This will just make the resilience gap between fresh 90's and fully geared characters a bit smaller (the gap will still exist though dont worry!). I for one support this change as it will make PVP more accessible to everyone which is the first step to improving it for everyone. Remember if a larger percentage of the player base is actively PVPing and devoting more game time to PVP it is likely the development time and resources devoted to PVP will increase over the long run.

    Revised talent system (not PVP specific but will have a large impact).

    The new talent system should provide a lot of fun and dynamic game play as people will be able to experiment with tons of different builds and customize their characters more than ever before. It will also make PVP more interesting because you really will have no idea what talents any given player has until you fight them, where as now it is fairly easy to predict/guess. I predict this will make PVP a lot more fun.


    Overall I am hopeful that Mists will make the PVP side of the game more enjoyable and bring a fair amount of new content. I look forward to getting new details on these battlegrounds, systems, and design philosophies as development progresses.

    I hope this summary has been helpful, if you notice any errors or anything I may have missed please let me know! =)
    Edited by Eldacar on 10/23/2011 4:26 PM PDT
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    85 Dwarf Paladin
    5085
    After reading this Im am full with excitment.To think I was about to quit wow and play some other mmo.
    Edited by Ragaren on 10/23/2011 4:08 PM PDT
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    70 Troll Rogue
    12830
    I think this next exp will be pretty good.

    The only other thing I would like to see is a bg where there are like 10 different factions competing and you pick a side. It would be like you and a partner against every other faction. Possibly using like goblin shredders.
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    - World of Warcraft
    87 Tauren Paladin
    10570
    The only other thing I would like to see is a bg where there are like 10 different factions competing and you pick a side. It would be like you and a partner against every other faction. Possibly using like goblin shredders.


    10 different factions!? That sounds incredibly complicated lol
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    Nice post, thanks.

    I am curious about the implications of :

    a. balance with the new talents available, especially the aoe snares

    b. whether or not cookie cutter pvp specs will still exist or if choice will truly exist

    c. how monks will fare without an auto attack...i would expect this to change

    d. how pandas will fare in pvp, will their racials be significant
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    21 Orc Rogue
    210
    Nice post, thanks.

    I am curious about the implications of :

    a. balance with the new talents available, especially the aoe snares

    b. whether or not cookie cutter pvp specs will still exist or if choice will truly exist

    c. how monks will fare without an auto attack...i would expect this to change

    d. how pandas will fare in pvp, will their racials be significant


    a. Although some talents will undoubtedly be "better" for PVP, nearly every talent in its current form seems to be PVP-oriented; so while you might expect a mage to drop RoF, for instance, they might catch you off guard with Frostjaw.

    So, I think it's less about balance and more about the element of surprise.

    b. There will probably be some mild form of cookie cutter builds (say like, 2 out of 6 talents mandatory), but hopefully not.

    c. Assuming chi generates quickly enough, probably similar to a rogue.

    d. They have a racial sleep, which IIRC only shares DR with Wyvern Sting.

    REALLY looking forward to MoP PVP!
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    90 Orc Hunter
    9465
    It sounds good, but after the abomination that was TB, the scrapping of the original BfG and the refusal to even acknowledge the large support fof Old Av.

    Im a little sceptical.
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    100 Undead Warlock
    8960
    Yeah I'll believe it when I see it. The current Dev team doesn't seem to have a clue about creating PVP content so I won't hold my breath on any PVP in MoP being worth doing.
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    90 Dwarf Priest
    8000
    I can't believe you managed to make a multi post thread and eek out what little pvp content they released lol.

    All that can be really summed up is: 3 new BGs and an arena.

    As a subscriber since the beginning, and the complete lack of content in cata despite the monthly payments I make, its not nearly enough.

    There needs to be new queue systems, new rewards, tutorials/base gear for new players, there needs to be cross server meeting rooms, there needs to be world pvp incentives, low level pvp revamp. More RBG retrofitting of maps, bug fixes and exploits on current maps. Redesigns on the 40 mans (and probably sota).

    PvP players need to not be treated like third class citizens. I think most of us who play the game realize its primarily a pve game. However, the lack of content, or even maintenance of current content is just unacceptable. I was hoping Blizzcon was a sign that things might be changing, I guess I was wrong.

    Well here's to hoping SWOTR sucks, because its the only way I'm coming back to wow.
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    - World of Warcraft
    87 Tauren Paladin
    10570
    Volun it's true they didn't release a ton of information, but the information they did release is promising imo. Three new BG's would be a lot, and the new talent system will do wonders for PVP imo. One thing that is REALLY important to remember is that new PVP content adds to existing content, it doesn't replace it as is the case with PVE. We have 8 battleground right now, if they add 3 more we will have 11 BG's to play for the rest of the game (until they add even more). Where as with PVE once a new tier comes out the old tier's are relatively worthless and not worth playing, as a result they really only ever have one tier of content to play at any given time. PVP content keeps slowly growing and growing while PVE content for the most part stays about the same in terms of total viable content available.

    I am not arguing one model is better or worse, but if they were cranking out BG's and arenas as fast as instances I think we would really be overwhelmed by them honestly. PVP has always been about fighting other players, it is player driven, the BG's themselves when well designed just give us interesting ways and reason to kill each other.
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    I am curious about the implications of :

    b. whether or not cookie cutter pvp specs will still exist or if choice will truly exist

    I might well be wrong, but from what I've looked at I think that the talent system is going to be a better way to customize abilities _to play style_ (and maybe to some specialized roles?), rather than the current mathematical certainty that if you don't build this this way, you will be an inferior player regardless of play style or personal skill.
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    85 Tauren Shaman
    5885
    although i am excited for MoP and the pandaren monk/brewmaster (long time coming XD), i don't think i'll ever be satisfied with this game until they make AV more interactive. for god's sake, the zone is big enough to fit its own quest hubs. heck, it already does.


    I am curious about the implications of :

    b. whether or not cookie cutter pvp specs will still exist or if choice will truly exist

    well, i can say that for the shaman at least, it does look like it will be a matter of choice. many of the tools they give you serve similar functions, just in different styles.
    Edited by Minotourus on 10/24/2011 11:00 PM PDT
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    90 Dwarf Priest
    8000
    10/24/2011 08:46 AMPosted by Eldacar
    PVP content keeps slowly growing


    I would be happy if this was true.

    Like I said, I think all of us who play wow realize its primarily a pve game, and like you said pvp is self sustaining to a degree. However, its also absolutely pathetic in terms of how slow and lack of caring they put into the pvp content they do (or rather don't) put out.

    Does anyone think that through a WHOLE expansion cycle of cataclysm, there is literally NO new pvp content after release? Is there a way they can reduce my subscription fee to 3.99 a month? Because that's honestly how much I feel wow is worth to someone like me. Blizzard once said they wanted to provide content for everyone once in awhile when they found out raids don't fit everyone's playsyle, and they added dungeons. It didn't have to be every patch, but that there was a decent spread of content.

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    - World of Warcraft
    87 Tauren Paladin
    10570
    I would be happy if this was true.
    But it is true, originally there were no BG's, then Blizz added WSG and AV, then they added AB, then they added EOTS, then they added Strand, then Isle, then Twin Peaks and BFG. The amount of content has been slowly growing over time. If you are arguing otherwise I would respectfully ask that you explain your logic for me.

    I wont argue that WoW does seem to be primarily PVE focused, but you have to remember there are more players PVE'ing than PVP'ing, you cant realistically expect an event split of development resources. I will say that I would like new BG's to come out a BIT faster, and a bit more dev time on PVP issues would be nice, but as a PVP player I am biased here so I cant really make a fair and objective judgement. Also we cant see behind the scenes, we don't know how much time they actually spend working on some of this stuff, it could take them more time to build a BG than an entire raid tier (im not saying it does, im just saying we dont know).

    At the end of the day I feel like posting and posting about how we want more PVP content is a waste of time, they already know that. I feel like the best way we as a community can contribute is by providing detailed constructive feedback on what the most pressing issues facing the PVP community are so that they can better allocate the dev time they already have earmarked for PVP.

    Remember, if more people start to play PVP Blizzard can afford to devote more dev time to it. Making PVP better through constructive feedback will not only improve it in the short term but will also improve it in the long term by getting more people play and enjoy PVP, there by increasing the dev attention it gets.

    I know these forums can seem like a mess sometimes, but I think you will find that if you are posting respectfully and constructively more people will respond in kind. People tend to adapt to their environment, and if they see more people having intelligent discussions they are more likely to start contributing themselves. There will always be some trolls but they can be ignored, a few of us really can start to make a difference if we take the time to try.
    Edited by Eldacar on 10/25/2011 10:01 AM PDT
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    90 Dwarf Priest
    8000
    It isn't true, at least not anymore it seems. There has been ZERO new content for cata after release. If I'm going to be paying a monthly fee for this game, I expect SOME content. Otherwise, there's not much reason I should be paying monthly. I'd be happy to pay the expansion costs, the server costs, but 13$ a month to get no new content over a whole expansion cycle is ludicrous.

    Wow used to have nothing except flagging yourself for pvp. Then they added honor system, then AV and WSG, then outdoor pvp zones, then they redid the honor system with buying. In BC, they added cross server BGs, a new arena. In LK they added IOC. I guess looking back, its incredible how little they added, but at least it was something.

    I guess my anger this expansion is there was literally nothing. To me, it doesn't even matter what goes on behind the scenes when there is zero progress.

    Don't get me wrong, I LOVED cata at ship. RBGs, two new BGs, no rating on gear anymore, increased health pools, resilience is straight damage reduction. However, there doesn't seem to be anything really innovative for the expansion. Something as simple as having base resilence, something they KNOW to be a benefit, they're holding out. For what reason? The new arena which is actually CATA inspired, they're holding out again. For what reason? If its to pool all the content for expansion and then say no new changes, then that doesn't fit the payment model.

    The BIGGEST thing that Blizzard can do is create a pvp community. Us as players absolutely can help, but Blizzard is not doing their part at all, not by structure or content. Interestingly enough, I watched the SC2 DOTA panel, and how the designers saw how awful that community can be, and then they actually listed some reasons why that might be the case. When they finally broke it down, it was fascinating because the rage players felt, something you might think is intrinsic to the players, was actually built into many aspects of the game. And Blizzard sought ways to design around that. Blizzard with this new expansion doesn't seem to be addressing issues.

    With the current server architecture, there is no pvp community. The servers not only split people by faction, but by playstyles. People desperately go into trade chat without an honest way to evaluate them while people cling onto their pve guilds that inevitably demand their time. Rather than try to address these issues, Blizzard does nothing, leaving people to float around aimlessly or transfer to a server where there is a larger helping, hoping its not like the one they're in, while stuffing Blizzard's coffers a little more.

    Man, I'm just rambling now, there's just so much wrong I see in the game, its hard to stay objective. I don't know, I wanted RBGs for a LOOOOOONG time, they announced they wanted to do something like that in Blizzcon 2005, it took them 5 years, and I was happy when it finally came out. But, I think I'm older, less stupid, and you might even say cynical now to wait another 5. Whole NEW games come out in that time, much less one feature.
    Edited by Volun on 10/25/2011 10:46 AM PDT
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    85 Draenei Shaman
    2810
    Thanks for the work Eldarcar.

    I love murderball, it was my favorite map in Warhammer. For the two weeks i played it that is.
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    85 Draenei Shaman
    10680
    Awesome post =]
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    85 Undead Rogue
    0
    Murderball is the dumbest possible game-type in an MMO.

    Valley will be the new SotA.
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    90 Night Elf Druid
    7600
    I see what volun is saying, and i understand what eldacar is saying, the focus for volun is progression after the xpac for pvpers, instead of releasing only new gear for pvp progression they should take their pvp idea's and have like a battle of the month type thing or even three months, just add a temporary battle ground or arena, that way the system doesnt get too large, that or add lvl requirement bgs that have a lvl cap, say 80-85 you get a new bg but at 86 you can no longer que for it and once u hit 86 2 new bgs are added, and after 6months sitting at 90 they add another that will be removed after 3 months or so, that way the game feels more progressive but doesnt get to the point that there are just way to many bgs, and the world pvp they are talking about now, it would be cool if they made like a town of the month system, so all the pvpers would attack a certain horde town changing each month or defend a certain alliance town changing each month that way you're not always just attacking the same town, idk just my ideas on what blizz could do to try to help with issues like these.
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