Was Cata the first "failed" expansion?

87 Dwarf Shaman
8380
10/26/2011 11:30 PMPosted by Foiblesqt
wotlk honestly wasn't that bad in any regard other than people going 'ohhh heroics too easy not even 'heroics' omg'


Just about everything pve related outside of specific hardmodes was really easy in Wrath. Too easy for the most part.


So is that why everyone had HM ICC and Ulduar on farm the week it came out? Oh wait.... only 5% of the guilds got to see that content before it was nerfed.
90 Human Paladin
13225
We had a blast in Vanila, TBC and WotLK, we cleared content and had no problem getting to end of normals and doing some hardmodes while each tier was still relevant. I was able to carry the few terrible friends that I had through 1/6 SWP and cleared every boss of every Teir of WotLK while it was still relevant.

Well here comes cata, it is suddenly impossible to carry my friends through even the first boss, let alone a teir. They quit, not fun being roflstomped by the first boss over and over. I try to raid with some other randoms, not fun at all so I stop playing.

Cata, for me has been the absolute worst expac, evern while I can admit from a game design standpoint it is better than it has ever been, it just isnt fun.


This mirrors my experience. Out of 5 real life friends that I played WoW with, I ended up as the only one still playing two months into Cata. After they left, the core of our progression raiding group was gone, the guild fell apart and I was pretty much left without anyone to enjoy the game with.

Went through a few guilds but they were all suffering from lack of available players and were disbanding. Eventually I just started up my own little guild just so I could get some extra bag space.

In this regard I do say that Cata hurt the WoW community. Three of them have come back but its a very different experience. What they experienced at the very beginning of Cata left a truly sour taste in their mouths.
85 Blood Elf Rogue
3295
Saying wow ripped off anything from Rift is really bad comedy guys. That entire game was little more than a blatant rip of of wow. Everything about it looked like little more than a heavily modded out wow interface. That game lasted all of a week for me. After that I went back to the real deal

Rift was the biggest waste of money I ever spent tbh, well unless you count the time that I was suckered into paying 50 bucks for an overpriced WoW patch called Cataclysm that one time.....
88 Tauren Warrior
10050
Can something be concidered a failure when 10 million plus people still play it and thus pay Blizzard billions of dollars a year? No? didn't think so.
85 Gnome Mage
10660
Questing has always been an easy experience, and the fact that they're more linear now is better. There was nothing interesting about having quests send you halfway across the world to do errands, and anyone who says otherwise needs to stop nostalgia'ing.
90 Goblin Warrior
7835
I think a lot of people are missing what the OP was trying to point out.

Yes, OP, I think that Cata was the first "failed" expansion. Not because of whether or not you "liked" it or not, but rather (as the OP was trying to say) because what Blizzard was trying to do didn't work in some areas, and failed miserably in others. They missed the mark with their goals in other words. Sure the content was fun and engaging in most areas, but the changes they made to the game were, arguably, not what was needed to accomplish the things they set out to accomplish.

They went "too far" in several areas: Stat simplification, Talent revamp, Mastery, Health Pools, "false difficulty," and Healing to name a few. It's more difficult to balance, and a greater sense of homogenization is present. Raid mechanics are better than ever, and more and more gear can cover up the flaws in class balance, and class mechanics, but the issues are there, and have been since launch. One need only to look at the massive nerfs to raids for proof.

so, not a failure in terms of numbers, or enjoyment, which is what really matters, but definitely a failure in terms of Blizzard doing what they set out to do.
90 Goblin Warrior
7835
10/27/2011 07:03 AMPosted by Luph
Questing has always been an easy experience, and the fact that they're more linear now is better. There was nothing interesting about having quests send you halfway across the world to do errands, and anyone who says otherwise needs to stop nostalgia'ing.


I think you mean more streamlined, not linear. Linearity is usually bad in MMOs, because by its very definition, it removes choice from the player creating a dumbed-down experience that is boring by comparison. I'm not talking about linearity in the sense that one must level up in order to progress, but rather, I need quest 165a, b, c, d, e, and f, before I can unlock 166.

As an example, there are a lot of people that hate questing, and would rather instance grind. These folks tend to minimize exposure to questing environments. One must quest through practically the entire zone of Deepholm in order to unlock Therazane though. This is where linearity removes that player's choice.
85 Human Death Knight
8790
Some things were good and some things were bad about Cata in my opinion.

1) Lore
I felt as though the story were advanced really well in the expansion. Thrall's ascendancy to a position of even greater power and responsibility. The relentless march of the horde war machine with Orcs pushing far into Ashenvale and the Forsaken making huge gains in the Eastern Kingdoms. The return of Malfurion and cleansing of Teldrassil. That capped by a Deathwing still mad with the visions of the Old Gods in his fractured head.

2) Questing
I know some people dislike how linear and easy the questing has become, but as someone who loves the story more then anything I was overjoyed by the questing in the new zones and the revamped 1-60. Each zone told a compelling story and the narratives were very good no matter which side you played.

3) Goblins and Worgen
Both great choices and both look beautiful (Please Blizz reskin the original races, its been 7 years!) in the game. Their starting zones are amazing experiences and very well crafted in my opinion. My only gripe extends to the Goblins being allowed to be shaman. I understand that their relationship with the elements is more exploitative then a normal shaman, so you'd think the elements would not answer their call.

4) Dungeons
Well designed and fun for the most part, but I tend to agree with the original poster. A fight should be difficult because you have to get the mechanics of a fight down, the timing, the graphical cues that portend an attack, positioning, etc etc. When you have all of that but add in large mobs, endless crowd control requirements, and a dungeon finder system that does little to inspire a spirit of cooperation the exercise shifts from fun to time-consuming tedium. I don't expect to roll through a heroic, but it would be nice if I could run more then one a day due to time constraints.

5) Raids
I haven't raided since WOTLK so I am unqualified to make any statement other then I raided in the last expansion through pugs. In my experience it has been more difficult to even get into a raid then in WOTLK. I look forward to the Raid Finder so that I too can experience the fall of Deathwing (albeit an easier form then the actual raid, but that means little for someone who just likes experiencing the content.)

6) Transmogrification
Technically a part of Cata. Love the whole concept, especially as a role player. My only gripe is that I'm not allowed to mog a weapon to look like a legendary. I want to go on wielding Shadowmourne! I wish they would make legendaries like heirlooms that level up with you, but that would break the whole 'need better loot' system. The least they can do is let my weapon look like the legendary I earned.

To me it was hardly a failure, but I liked Lich King more. Regardless I look forward to Mists!
Raiding tier 11 was the most fun I've ever had in the game, and I've played since beginning of vanilla.
85 Orc Hunter
8640
During Blizzcon I noticed a lot of:

"With cata we went to far with...."

A lot of people have been talking since the expansion hit about the way questing had turned into a dumbed-down, linear faceroll where you virtually had to TRY to get killed if you wanted to die.

A lot of people talking about how heroics weren't "hard" like conquering a difficult peak on a mountain climb but were "hard" like peeling 1000 potatoes.

I think the drop off in subcriptions is a direct reflection of these mistakes.

I'm really glad that both these areas are being addressed, particularly with regard to questing going back to a less phased, less linear, more hub-based experience. Let's hope they nail the mix right this time.


Blizzard has been failing for some years. In fact all they do is steal. Vanilla Wow stole from EQ. The achievement system was stolen from Warhammer. The game took a lot from LoTR. And the current Deathwing fight for 4.3 is a complete ripoff of Rift's Akyllos fight - which is most likely the best MMORPG fight ever. Need evidence just watch http://www.gamebreaker.tv/trion-rift-the-sanctum-38-rift-clone/ go to 31:00 mins in the video. In fact the upcoming WoW warfront is just Rift's Black Garden.

Can't wait to see what WoW steals from SWToR.

Yeah WoW just steals to make a game these days. The Devs just can't make anything new and the sheep keep paying them money.


I see you have an account here, how much is your wool selling for these days?
100 Draenei Paladin
20585
During Blizzcon I noticed a lot of:

"With cata we went to far with...."

A lot of people have been talking since the expansion hit about the way questing had turned into a dumbed-down, linear faceroll where you virtually had to TRY to get killed if you wanted to die.

A lot of people talking about how heroics weren't "hard" like conquering a difficult peak on a mountain climb but were "hard" like peeling 1000 potatoes.

I think the drop off in subcriptions is a direct reflection of these mistakes.

I'm really glad that both these areas are being addressed, particularly with regard to questing going back to a less phased, less linear, more hub-based experience. Let's hope they nail the mix right this time.


That would be WotLK.

Cata was a pretty cool expansion.
85 Night Elf Priest
14935
10/26/2011 11:28 PMPosted by Antorius
I've actually enjoyed Cata.


me too.
1 Human Hunter
0
10/27/2011 06:58 AMPosted by Dunerok
Can something be concidered a failure when 10 million plus people still play it and thus pay Blizzard billions of dollars a year? No? didn't think so.


Can something that upon its release cause 1 million plus customers to become ex-customers be considered a failure even if you are still profitable after losing the revenue that goes with those customers?

Losing hundreds of millions of dollars in potential recurring revenue = failure regardless of how much money you still make. Cataclysm's subscriber losses cost Blizzard a ton of money as evidenced by most everything they have said about MoP without ever fully admitting Cataclysm was an abysmal costly screw-up.

Netflix is still profitable and yet it's stock has tanked 75% since their poorly handled attempt at a rate increase and to split the business in half. Does the fact that they still have customers make that a non-failure.

The only way losing 1 million of your most profitable customers in 6 months can be considered a success is if you reversed an even steeper decline the 6 months prior. There was no such decline prior to Cataclysm's release so by every measure losing that many customers is without doubt a failure from a financial perspective.
100 Night Elf Druid
10935
I've enjoyed Cataclysm, particularly the Molten Front. There are a few things I did notice though.

1) The perfect guild goes a long way. If your locked into a bad guild, you're locked in to some crummy situations.

2) I swear the Devs have no bad player friends. My wife gets freaking insulted and tormented every single time she does dungeon stuff without me. I watch it happening on her screen. Even the Headless Horseman. She doesn't even turn on WoW if I'm not home now.



85 Human Mage
7375
10/26/2011 11:24 PMPosted by Bullcosby
Have you forgotten WOTLK?
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