Was Cata the first "failed" expansion?

100 Human Warlock
16960
10/27/2011 09:25 AMPosted by Uldrecht
I heard differing opinions overall during BlizzCon, but not once did I get the impression that any of those opinions boiled down to "Cataclysm sucks" as a whole.

To be fair, hearing such a statement in BlizzCon would be like hearing "Lucas should DIAF" at a SW convention...


You don't know Star Wars fans then. Many think he should for the prequels. But that is another topic for a never time. Just because you are happy with the over product doesn't mean you can't dislike parts of it.

If I order buy a B.L.T sandwich and get a B.L.T sandwich I'm happy. B.L.Ts are always good. But I might still tell the waitress that I'm unhappy with the amount and crispness of the bacon. Or I prefer pieces of Iceberg Lettuce instead of leafy green stuff. Or I really think a green tomato would set off fireworks in my mouth but they used a red one so I just got a bacosplostion.

This is even more true when discussing a product as varied and intricate as an MMO with 10 million varied and different players. Even only a sample size of 26,000 will still offer a ton of variety. And while you will always get a "certain" type at a conference that doesn't mean those gamers that are big enough fans to go to a conference all think a like.

And for the "cliche" proof that not everyone thinks alike I don't see cataclysm heroics as being to hard but in fact saw them as just right. I think it was normal 5-mans that were designed poorly. Heroics 5-mans shouldn't be made easier for MoP.

If there is still a difficulty gap to be bridge create a third difficulty much like the Raid Finder is doing for raiding. Have normals, normal+ and heroic. Or something but I found them fun and a challenge. The bad part of the difficulty of the Cata Heroics was that not everyone could play like me. So getting a group of 4 others that were "skilled" was awesome. Getting a group of 4 others that weren't was bad.
Edited by Rhorle on 10/27/2011 9:58 AM PDT
90 Blood Elf Warrior
5705
BC was the best expansion because even though it added new content, it was still World of Warcraft.

Over the years and expansions, WoW got denatured.

MoP pushes it even further by looking like a bad April's Fools joke on every single aspect. Pandarens, dumbed down talents, Hello Kitty Islands Adventure-ish themes, a totally new "villain" nobody ever heard of nor gives a damn about.

But meh, MMOs evolve; that's how it works.


Here's the thing, I waited to judge Cata until it released, you are basing your thoughts on MoP before it even comes out...


There is a saying. "Youre only as good as the last great thng you did".

My subscription ends in December. I have no intention of being ripped off again.

I was excited for Cata, even with the changes presented. Didn't much care for the sudden turn around in Lore, but as the excuse goes, its a game, lore doesn't much matter.

In any case, when I got the CE for Cata, I expected it to be an expansion. It wasn't. It took three days to go from 80 to 85. THREE DAYS. that's what I felt ripped off about. $90.00 for a book, a CD and a pet. Oh and a patch I maxed level to in three days. 70 to 80 in Wrath was fun, and I remember someblue speaking on the leveling time in the Cataclysm Forums, and it was said that to get from 80 to 85 would take as long as it did getting from 70 to 80 in Wrath. Thinking on that, I figured, wow..five levels that take that long? There must be tons of new content to explore. Nope. The only redeeming factor that was Cataclysm was Hyjal.

Never again.
45 Dwarf Shaman
190
Well said

10/27/2011 09:54 AMPosted by Rhorle

To be fair, hearing such a statement in BlizzCon would be like hearing "Lucas should DIAF" at a SW convention...


You don't know Star Wars fans then. Many think he should for the prequels. But that is another topic for a never time. Just because you are happy with the over product doesn't mean you can't dislike parts of it.

If I order buy a B.L.T sandwich and get a B.L.T sandwich I'm happy. B.L.Ts are always good. But I might still tell the waitress that I'm unhappy with the amount and crispness of the bacon. Or I prefer pieces of Iceberg Lettuce instead of leafy green stuff. Or I really think a green tomato would set off fireworks in my mouth but they used a red one so I just got a bacosplostion.

This is even more true when discussing a product as varied and intricate as an MMO with 10 million varied and different players. Even only a sample size of 26,000 will still offer a ton of variety. And while you will always get a "certain" type at a conference that doesn't mean those gamers that are big enough fans to go to a conference all think a like.
90 Undead Warrior
7870
You are mistaking the developers looking at the game with a critical eye with the claim that it was a "failure". We've seen a wide spectrum of opinions over Cataclysm and we're not afraid to look at what worked and didn't work (as we do with each expansion and game as a whole) and try to find better ways of doing things. I heard differing opinions overall during BlizzCon, but not once did I get the impression that any of those opinions boiled down to "Cataclysm sucks" as a whole. They had key elements that they disliked or thought could be improved on, but throwing the whole thing out the window as a "failure" is and should be considered a bit extreme don't you think?

As always, we want to keep learning and growing from each iteration of the game and that means that we're going to do that by continuing to look for your constructive feedback as well.


I think a lot of the "Cata sucks" comments are way overblown. I think if we were all honest, they'd be closer to:

"Cataclysm was a decent expansion produced by a company that usually hits it out of the park. They got a solid double this time instead of a grand slam like we all expected. More of their gambles that they always take turned out to not pay off than we're used to. It's a hell of a game still, but it's not blowing our minds like it used to."

Bottom line is we all have very high expectations for Blizzard. It was only a matter of time before one expansion didn't meet those expectations. And that was Cataclysm.

What I'm most excited about is that Blizz seems to have learned a lot from its "failures" (very carefully using that word) and MoP seems headed in absolutely the right direction. I think that was the OP's point, and I echo that statement.
88 Goblin Priest
11565
It's not possible to please everyone. Even if there are things I don't like, I appreciate all the time and effort placed into this game. BC will always be my favorite expansion =D

I just loved all the raids so much. Especially BT and Sunwell. I also loved the involved reputation grinding (via dungeon/raid/turn ins/quests) and the leveling experience. I can't count the amount of times my heart skipped a beat with Fel Reaver stopping through Hellfire Pen. Yeah you could die and I did go back and kick him in the face later. The dailies were also fun and didn't feel like chores.

Wrath had it's perks too and I wouldn't say I absolutely hated it. I didn't like resto druid healing so much due to the spammy feel, but I loved Holy Priest healing and Resto Shaman. Ulduar was fun with all the different themed bosses and areas. Naxx Immortal runs were so much of a thrill and LK was a fun fight.

Cata is probably my least favorite expansion. Early heroics as a healer was painful at the release... super painful. I adapted and overcame that although I still don't enjoy pugging so much. I also get tired of the fire theme in Firelands but I've had fun with the heroic encounters. I think FL was nerfed too soon. I would've loved more time to work on the content before it was nerfed.

The leveling experience goes by fast if you let it. You can slow it down without using heirlooms and not dungeon crawling to 85. I loved the redone areas and a few of the quests were fun. Like the one where you become an npc and hand out quests XD
Edited by Litzy on 10/27/2011 10:04 AM PDT
85 Tauren Druid
9380
Let's come to an agreement together, Ok? We'll keep working to make things better, you keep providing constructive feedback on what we could do to make it better. We'll then try to figure out how we can meet in the middle on some of those things as often as possible. Deal?


I think that's pretty fair enough.

I've no doubt that Blizzard is trying to make the game is good as possible. Anyone that thinks to the contrary is full of themselves and doesn't have a solid grasp on reality.

Blizzard has been far from perfect, but constructive feedback is always the best. I believe Blizzard does listen (no, I'm not a "fanboi").

I don't think Cataclysm has been a "failure" as a whole, but I do believe that it has been pretty lacklustre and there have been quite a few frustrating elements in the expansion that have made a lot of people upset.

That Blizzard may be trying to address the frustrations is a good thing. I hope that MoP can be a good expansion. I plan to play it.
85 Worgen Hunter
9875
I enjoyed Cata. In my mind, the only failed expansion so far was Wrath.
85 Troll Shaman
5915
GAHHHH. If anything the only thing that failed in Cataclysm was that a large percentage of the idiots in the subscriber base found out how to use the GD forums.
80 Human Death Knight
1130
During Blizzcon I noticed a lot of:

"With cata we went to far with...."

A lot of people have been talking since the expansion hit about the way questing had turned into a dumbed-down, linear faceroll where you virtually had to TRY to get killed if you wanted to die.

A lot of people talking about how heroics weren't "hard" like conquering a difficult peak on a mountain climb but were "hard" like peeling 1000 potatoes.

I think the drop off in subcriptions is a direct reflection of these mistakes.

I'm really glad that both these areas are being addressed, particularly with regard to questing going back to a less phased, less linear, more hub-based experience. Let's hope they nail the mix right this time.


From my point of view yes.

I Loved Wrath so this would be the first failed expansions.

I have never had so much fun than in Wrath, in Cata, i just couldn't find the fun.
100 Tauren Warrior
11730
DEAL!
87 Human Paladin
6955
IMHO Cata apparents to Devs saying "This is how we would've liked the game to be when we lunched in 2004."

Flying in Azeroth, heroics that were initially unpuggable, rated battlegrounds, 110% scripted and phased questlines...

But then they realized this is not what most players wanted.

So they nerfed heroics to allow LFD heroes to complete them. It didn't change anything to the fact that you always end up queueing with players who have no idea how to play this game after 7years, it only gets less frustrating because you can actually carry them.

Then they nerfed Arenas CP income to force players in RBGs to be keep up with gear, without any consideration toward what players were enjoying the most. At the same moment they messed up their MMR system BIG TIME; allowing S9 glads to secure R1 two weeks after the release of S10 and call it quit for 6months. Go look at all the R1 players still wearing S9 Vicious gear obtained in July. This basically killed WoW's elite PvP scene, more than any class imbablance ever did.

Sometimes it's not so much the expansion itself, but what happens during this expansion, that warrants the "fail" title.

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