Theramore in flames: Horde favoritism. pt. 2

13 Human Warrior
200
Since you extended the post cap and are clearly, maybe, paying attention. Read this.

The first pawn on the chess board of what is to be the story for Mists of Pandaria is being moved, and you're angry at whose turn is first?

While it may be the first move of Mists, can you not see how it looks as a continuation of Cataclysm? To an Alliance player, it looks like the 10th move the horde are getting to our one.

We were told that Cataclysm was going to bring back the Horde vs Alliance aspect. When this was announced, I was very excited for a living, moving, dynamic world. But what happened? Alliance lost territory to the Horde during the chaos that was the Cataclysm and Deathwing's arrival, and then nothing. No counter offensive, no cries for vengence for south shore, no massive push to retake Gilnaes, no push back against the Horde offensive in Ashenvale. There was just nothing.
The Horde, to remind you, is currently a faction with an overzealous ruler and significant turmoil among their faction leaders; while the Alliance has almost never been quite so unified and far removed from the days of imprisoning orcs.

You say this, but there is no evidence of it. So the Horde, despite being divided, launch multiple successful assaults on Alliance territory, but the Alliance leadership does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Where is the Tyrande from WC3, clad in Sentinel armor and riding her battle saber out against the Horde who are destroying the forest? In the 4.0 raids, we defeat the Twilight Cult and rekill Nefarian. Cool. But then you release 4.1 and the troll dungeons. The question is why? Why would Alliance members care about Zul'Aman? If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, wouldn't it make more sense for the Alliance to support the rising Amani empire? After all, the trolls creating a second front against Sylvanas who is pushing south couldn't be a bad thing. Why, considering the aggressions of the Horde, would we allow a troll emissary, let alone help a troll faction leader? WHY DO WE HELP AN ENEMY FACTION LEADER?? There is a living Trollbane in Outland. Why could he not come back to lead the Alliance offensive? Why couldn't Varien get off his throne and smash the rising troll incursion. It would be the largest and closest threat to Stormwind. WHERE IS ANY STORYTELLING FOR THE ALLIANCE? Why are the 'neutral' factions not waging war on the Horde? (argent crusade attacking Sylvanas for using the plague, any/all druid factions attacking the horde for the burning of Ashenvale)

And then comes 4.2. The fall of the Firelord, and the rise of the World Shaman. Thrall becoming the world shaman is very problematic for several reasons. Since his closest counterpart is Tirion Fordring, that's who we compare him to. Tirion fought during the 2nd war, but was removed from his order for not butchering Orcs. Even in Classic WoW, he is a neutral NPC. He gives quests to either side from his home in Eastern Plaguelands (probably doesn't anymore). For the life of our characters, he has been neutral. He goes from neutral human, to neutral human and leader of a new neutral faction.
Thrall is...well Thrall. For those of us who played Orcs and Humans and WC2, Thrall is the aberration. We knew the horde to be fel-tainted, monsterous, savages who destroyed their world and now seek to raze everything in ours to the ground. But not Thrall. He sought to end the corruption of his people, to bring a peaceful shamanistic side to the Horde. The Horde we see in WoW is Thrall's horde. Without him, it is a mindless killing machine that the Alliance should have put down at the end of the second war. He chose to forge a tentative peace with the Alliance @ Theramore, and, while he was Warchief, would reign in the more aggressive members of his faction. In 4.0, we see him give up his title of warchief, and try to become neutral. Up until this point, everything is gravy. Tense, but gravy.

Blizzard said that they view characters that go neutral for the greater good as 'world characters.' And then 4.2 came. One of the big selling points of 4.2 was this questline to help put thrall back together. (the 2nd time Alliance members have saved him, the first being in CoT:hillsbrad) And then come the quest Elemental Bonds: Fury. And it all falls apart.
Thrall : KING VARIAN... YOU WISH TO MAKE WAR ON MY PEOPLE? YOU SHALL HAVE YOUR WAR, HUMAN!
Thrall : YOU WILL SEE THE FURY OF THE HORDE RAGE THROUGH YOUR CITIES! YOU WILL SEE YOUR THRONE SPLIT IN TWO! THIS I SWEAR!
Can someone please explain why I would help Thrall after he yells that? This supposedly neutral character is swearing to kill my king and raze our cities. No, I think I'll take my chances with Ragnaros and Deathwing, walk over and shove my sword through Thrall's chest or cave his skull in with my mace. Thanks. This orc is my enemy, he is still a member of the Horde and is not to be trusted. He IS NOT A NEUTRAL NPC!! And what is comming in 4.3? Thrall becoming the Earth warder? Great, so I'm going to help MY ENEMY BECOME AN ASPECT?!?!?! Forgive the caps, but this is stupid on an order of magnitude beyond disbelief.

So after an entire expansion of the Alliance doing things that are either in direction opposition to any possible goal our member races have or just doing nothing, and you expect me to believe that the Horde offensive against Theramore is what snaps them out of this...stupor of doing nothing? We have a second race become refugees, and we do nothing. Oh, but someone pissing off Jaina...THAT wakes up the neighbors. That sound you hear is me scoffing in disbelief

You (Blizzard) forget or ignored the Alliance's side of the story for an entire expansion, and then comes blizzcon. (No, the whole Corpsegrinder incident is not ok, but that is a different topic) We're told that there will be an epic quest line in which we'll get to see King Varien become a worthy king for the Alliance. Oh, we get to be his page. Well golly gee thanks Blizz! I'm so happy I get to see the story this time. /end sarcasam. Excuse me, but didn't a blue poster state a while (more than a while) ago that we were no longer the random footment or orcs from WC3, but had become the heros? Didn't the Lich King call us "the greatest collection of heros Azeroth has ever known?" And we get to be his page. Not his Men-at-arms, not his trusted bodygaurds, not the elite shocktroops at his personal disposal, but his page. The boy that runs around SW chasing his sister...that is page material. Players who have fought against legions, the Lich King, the Firelord, the Twilight Cult, etc are NOT pages.

I'm sorry, did I miss the memo that Alliance players would get to pay less for Cataclysm? Because we certainly are not getting the same quality of product that people who play as Horde characters do.

It comes with sorrow and regret that I say these things, but this is why I have no interest or intent to buy Mists. I'm sorry Blizzard. I have been a fan for a very long time. Maybe too long because I care about this too much. But the trust has been broken, the faith lost, and the goodwill has run out. I will be staying through part of dragon soul due to guild obligations, but I will not see you next expansion.

I'm not really sure what the breaking point was. Maybe leaking something like "in light of ever growing Horde aggression, the Alliance retakes Gilnaes/Lorderon" would have made everything alright. But I waited an expansion for my faction's side of the story to be told. It never came.
100 Night Elf Hunter
20585
10/28/2011 07:47 AMPosted by Fairadey
I wonder what this means for Rexxar. Rexxar helped Thralls horde. Rexxar defended Jaina Proudmoore.


Rexxar is also credited with killing Jaina's father, Admiral Daelin Proudmoore. And this at the head of a Horde Army invading Theramore. So I don't really think he'd be welcomed into the Alliance with open arms.
10/27/2011 03:57 PMPosted by Tavik
The first pawn on the chess board of what is to be the story for Mists of Pandaria is being moved, and you're angry at whose turn is first?

While it may be the first move of Mists, can you not see how it looks as a continuation of Cataclysm? To an Alliance player, it looks like the 10th move the horde are getting to our one.

We were told that Cataclysm was going to bring back the Horde vs Alliance aspect. When this was announced, I was very excited for a living, moving, dynamic world. But what happened? Alliance lost territory to the Horde during the chaos that was the Cataclysm and Deathwing's arrival, and then nothing. No counter offensive, no cries for vengence for south shore, no massive push to retake Gilnaes, no push back against the Horde offensive in Ashenvale. There was just nothing.
The Horde, to remind you, is currently a faction with an overzealous ruler and significant turmoil among their faction leaders; while the Alliance has almost never been quite so unified and far removed from the days of imprisoning orcs.

You say this, but there is no evidence of it. So the Horde, despite being divided, launch multiple successful assaults on Alliance territory, but the Alliance leadership does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Where is the Tyrande from WC3, clad in Sentinel armor and riding her battle saber out against the Horde who are destroying the forest? In the 4.0 raids, we defeat the Twilight Cult and rekill Nefarian. Cool. But then you release 4.1 and the troll dungeons. The question is why? Why would Alliance members care about Zul'Aman? If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, wouldn't it make more sense for the Alliance to support the rising Amani empire? After all, the trolls creating a second front against Sylvanas who is pushing south couldn't be a bad thing. Why, considering the aggressions of the Horde, would we allow a troll emissary, let alone help a troll faction leader? WHY DO WE HELP AN ENEMY FACTION LEADER?? There is a living Trollbane in Outland. Why could he not come back to lead the Alliance offensive? Why couldn't Varien get off his throne and smash the rising troll incursion. It would be the largest and closest threat to Stormwind. WHERE IS ANY STORYTELLING FOR THE ALLIANCE? Why are the 'neutral' factions not waging war on the Horde? (argent crusade attacking Sylvanas for using the plague, any/all druid factions attacking the horde for the burning of Ashenvale)

And then comes 4.2. The fall of the Firelord, and the rise of the World Shaman. Thrall becoming the world shaman is very problematic for several reasons. Since his closest counterpart is Tirion Fordring, that's who we compare him to. Tirion fought during the 2nd war, but was removed from his order for not butchering Orcs. Even in Classic WoW, he is a neutral NPC. He gives quests to either side from his home in Eastern Plaguelands (probably doesn't anymore). For the life of our characters, he has been neutral. He goes from neutral human, to neutral human and leader of a new neutral faction.
Thrall is...well Thrall. For those of us who played Orcs and Humans and WC2, Thrall is the aberration. We knew the horde to be fel-tainted, monsterous, savages who destroyed their world and now seek to raze everything in ours to the ground. But not Thrall. He sought to end the corruption of his people, to bring a peaceful shamanistic side to the Horde. The Horde we see in WoW is Thrall's horde. Without him, it is a mindless killing machine that the Alliance should have put down at the end of the second war. He chose to forge a tentative peace with the Alliance @ Theramore, and, while he was Warchief, would reign in the more aggressive members of his faction. In 4.0, we see him give up his title of warchief, and try to become neutral. Up until this point, everything is gravy. Tense, but gravy.

Blizzard said that they view characters that go neutral for the greater good as 'world characters.' And then 4.2 came. One of the big selling points of 4.2 was this questline to help put thrall back together. (the 2nd time Alliance members have saved him, the first being in CoT:hillsbrad) And then come the quest Elemental Bonds: Fury. And it all falls apart.
Thrall : KING VARIAN... YOU WISH TO MAKE WAR ON MY PEOPLE? YOU SHALL HAVE YOUR WAR, HUMAN!
Thrall : YOU WILL SEE THE FURY OF THE HORDE RAGE THROUGH YOUR CITIES! YOU WILL SEE YOUR THRONE SPLIT IN TWO! THIS I SWEAR!
Can someone please explain why I would help Thrall after he yells that? This supposedly neutral character is swearing to kill my king and raze our cities. No, I think I'll take my chances with Ragnaros and Deathwing, walk over and shove my sword through Thrall's chest or cave his skull in with my mace. Thanks. This orc is my enemy, he is still a member of the Horde and is not to be trusted. He IS NOT A NEUTRAL NPC!! And what is comming in 4.3? Thrall becoming the Earth warder? Great, so I'm going to help MY ENEMY BECOME AN ASPECT?!?!?! Forgive the caps, but this is stupid on an order of magnitude beyond disbelief.

So after an entire expansion of the Alliance doing things that are either in direction opposition to any possible goal our member races have or just doing nothing, and you expect me to believe that the Horde offensive against Theramore is what snaps them out of this...stupor of doing nothing? We have a second race become refugees, and we do nothing. Oh, but someone pissing off Jaina...THAT wakes up the neighbors. That sound you hear is me scoffing in disbelief

You (Blizzard) forget or ignored the Alliance's side of the story for an entire expansion, and then comes blizzcon. (No, the whole Corpsegrinder incident is not ok, but that is a different topic) We're told that there will be an epic quest line in which we'll get to see King Varien become a worthy king for the Alliance. Oh, we get to be his page. Well golly gee thanks Blizz! I'm so happy I get to see the story this time. /end sarcasam. Excuse me, but didn't a blue poster state a while (more than a while) ago that we were no longer the random footment or orcs from WC3, but had become the heros? Didn't the Lich King call us "the greatest collection of heros Azeroth has ever known?" And we get to be his page. Not his Men-at-arms, not his trusted bodygaurds, not the elite shocktroops at his personal disposal, but his page. The boy that runs around SW chasing his sister...that is page material. Players who have fought against legions, the Lich King, the Firelord, the Twilight Cult, etc are NOT pages.

I'm sorry, did I miss the memo that Alliance players would get to pay less for Cataclysm? Because we certainly are not getting the same quality of product that people who play as Horde characters do.

It comes with sorrow and regret that I say these things, but this is why I have no interest or intent to buy Mists. I'm sorry Blizzard. I have been a fan for a very long time. Maybe too long because I care about this too much. But the trust has been broken, the faith lost, and the goodwill has run out. I will be staying through part of dragon soul due to guild obligations, but I will not see you next expansion.

I'm not really sure what the breaking point was. Maybe leaking something like "in light of ever growing Horde aggression, the Alliance retakes Gilnaes/Lorderon" would have made everything alright. But I waited an expansion for my faction's side of the story to be told. It never came.

Elect Tavik King, Horde will be Crushed.
90 Orc Hunter
11690
Of course the horde is evil ... we are the horde. if you thought otherwise gtfo.
85 Human Warrior
10060
The first pawn on the chess board of what is to be the story for Mists of Pandaria is being moved, and you're angry at whose turn is first?

While it may be the first move of Mists, can you not see how it looks as a continuation of Cataclysm? To an Alliance player, it looks like the 10th move the horde are getting to our one.

We were told that Cataclysm was going to bring back the Horde vs Alliance aspect. When this was announced, I was very excited for a living, moving, dynamic world. But what happened? Alliance lost territory to the Horde during the chaos that was the Cataclysm and Deathwing's arrival, and then nothing. No counter offensive, no cries for vengence for south shore, no massive push to retake Gilnaes, no push back against the Horde offensive in Ashenvale. There was just nothing.
The Horde, to remind you, is currently a faction with an overzealous ruler and significant turmoil among their faction leaders; while the Alliance has almost never been quite so unified and far removed from the days of imprisoning orcs.

You say this, but there is no evidence of it. So the Horde, despite being divided, launch multiple successful assaults on Alliance territory, but the Alliance leadership does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Where is the Tyrande from WC3, clad in Sentinel armor and riding her battle saber out against the Horde who are destroying the forest? In the 4.0 raids, we defeat the Twilight Cult and rekill Nefarian. Cool. But then you release 4.1 and the troll dungeons. The question is why? Why would Alliance members care about Zul'Aman? If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, wouldn't it make more sense for the Alliance to support the rising Amani empire? After all, the trolls creating a second front against Sylvanas who is pushing south couldn't be a bad thing. Why, considering the aggressions of the Horde, would we allow a troll emissary, let alone help a troll faction leader? WHY DO WE HELP AN ENEMY FACTION LEADER?? There is a living Trollbane in Outland. Why could he not come back to lead the Alliance offensive? Why couldn't Varien get off his throne and smash the rising troll incursion. It would be the largest and closest threat to Stormwind. WHERE IS ANY STORYTELLING FOR THE ALLIANCE? Why are the 'neutral' factions not waging war on the Horde? (argent crusade attacking Sylvanas for using the plague, any/all druid factions attacking the horde for the burning of Ashenvale)

And then comes 4.2. The fall of the Firelord, and the rise of the World Shaman. Thrall becoming the world shaman is very problematic for several reasons. Since his closest counterpart is Tirion Fordring, that's who we compare him to. Tirion fought during the 2nd war, but was removed from his order for not butchering Orcs. Even in Classic WoW, he is a neutral NPC. He gives quests to either side from his home in Eastern Plaguelands (probably doesn't anymore). For the life of our characters, he has been neutral. He goes from neutral human, to neutral human and leader of a new neutral faction.
Thrall is...well Thrall. For those of us who played Orcs and Humans and WC2, Thrall is the aberration. We knew the horde to be fel-tainted, monsterous, savages who destroyed their world and now seek to raze everything in ours to the ground. But not Thrall. He sought to end the corruption of his people, to bring a peaceful shamanistic side to the Horde. The Horde we see in WoW is Thrall's horde. Without him, it is a mindless killing machine that the Alliance should have put down at the end of the second war. He chose to forge a tentative peace with the Alliance @ Theramore, and, while he was Warchief, would reign in the more aggressive members of his faction. In 4.0, we see him give up his title of warchief, and try to become neutral. Up until this point, everything is gravy. Tense, but gravy.

Blizzard said that they view characters that go neutral for the greater good as 'world characters.' And then 4.2 came. One of the big selling points of 4.2 was this questline to help put thrall back together. (the 2nd time Alliance members have saved him, the first being in CoT:hillsbrad) And then come the quest Elemental Bonds: Fury. And it all falls apart.
Thrall : KING VARIAN... YOU WISH TO MAKE WAR ON MY PEOPLE? YOU SHALL HAVE YOUR WAR, HUMAN!
Thrall : YOU WILL SEE THE FURY OF THE HORDE RAGE THROUGH YOUR CITIES! YOU WILL SEE YOUR THRONE SPLIT IN TWO! THIS I SWEAR!
Can someone please explain why I would help Thrall after he yells that? This supposedly neutral character is swearing to kill my king and raze our cities. No, I think I'll take my chances with Ragnaros and Deathwing, walk over and shove my sword through Thrall's chest or cave his skull in with my mace. Thanks. This orc is my enemy, he is still a member of the Horde and is not to be trusted. He IS NOT A NEUTRAL NPC!! And what is comming in 4.3? Thrall becoming the Earth warder? Great, so I'm going to help MY ENEMY BECOME AN ASPECT?!?!?! Forgive the caps, but this is stupid on an order of magnitude beyond disbelief.

So after an entire expansion of the Alliance doing things that are either in direction opposition to any possible goal our member races have or just doing nothing, and you expect me to believe that the Horde offensive against Theramore is what snaps them out of this...stupor of doing nothing? We have a second race become refugees, and we do nothing. Oh, but someone pissing off Jaina...THAT wakes up the neighbors. That sound you hear is me scoffing in disbelief

You (Blizzard) forget or ignored the Alliance's side of the story for an entire expansion, and then comes blizzcon. (No, the whole Corpsegrinder incident is not ok, but that is a different topic) We're told that there will be an epic quest line in which we'll get to see King Varien become a worthy king for the Alliance. Oh, we get to be his page. Well golly gee thanks Blizz! I'm so happy I get to see the story this time. /end sarcasam. Excuse me, but didn't a blue poster state a while (more than a while) ago that we were no longer the random footment or orcs from WC3, but had become the heros? Didn't the Lich King call us "the greatest collection of heros Azeroth has ever known?" And we get to be his page. Not his Men-at-arms, not his trusted bodygaurds, not the elite shocktroops at his personal disposal, but his page. The boy that runs around SW chasing his sister...that is page material. Players who have fought against legions, the Lich King, the Firelord, the Twilight Cult, etc are NOT pages.

I'm sorry, did I miss the memo that Alliance players would get to pay less for Cataclysm? Because we certainly are not getting the same quality of product that people who play as Horde characters do.

It comes with sorrow and regret that I say these things, but this is why I have no interest or intent to buy Mists. I'm sorry Blizzard. I have been a fan for a very long time. Maybe too long because I care about this too much. But the trust has been broken, the faith lost, and the goodwill has run out. I will be staying through part of dragon soul due to guild obligations, but I will not see you next expansion.

I'm not really sure what the breaking point was. Maybe leaking something like "in light of ever growing Horde aggression, the Alliance retakes Gilnaes/Lorderon" would have made everything alright. But I waited an expansion for my faction's side of the story to be told. It never came.
100 Gnome Warlock
17860
I say the Alliance should rebuild Fenris Isle (that little island fort in Lordamere Lake, just south of Undercity).

This would be great because the Alliance doesn't have any real territory for what seems like zones away in that area of Northern EK.

Fenris Isle should be a medium size city, similar to the current Theramore, with an inn, flightpath, etc.

This would give us an awesome place to launch attacks on Undercity itself.
85 Undead Rogue
2410
Except for the part where they use the bomb to blow up and entire druid school.

10/28/2011 06:58 AMPosted by Emaria
Alliance get quests to kinda strike back at the horde in silverwind, that's where you first discover the Huge bomb that is the entire plot for stonetalon mountains. Besides where one city falls you guys get a couple !@#$%in' new ones like the one in swamp of sorrows, so it's not like you're losing ground

Except for the part where they use the bomb to blow up and entire druid school.



This times 10 million.
Edited by Ravlaor on 10/28/2011 9:10 AM PDT
100 Human Paladin
16150


While it may be the first move of Mists, can you not see how it looks as a continuation of Cataclysm? To an Alliance player, it looks like the 10th move the horde are getting to our one.

We were told that Cataclysm was going to bring back the Horde vs Alliance aspect. When this was announced, I was very excited for a living, moving, dynamic world. But what happened? Alliance lost territory to the Horde during the chaos that was the Cataclysm and Deathwing's arrival, and then nothing. No counter offensive, no cries for vengence for south shore, no massive push to retake Gilnaes, no push back against the Horde offensive in Ashenvale. There was just nothing.


You say this, but there is no evidence of it. So the Horde, despite being divided, launch multiple successful assaults on Alliance territory, but the Alliance leadership does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Where is the Tyrande from WC3, clad in Sentinel armor and riding her battle saber out against the Horde who are destroying the forest? In the 4.0 raids, we defeat the Twilight Cult and rekill Nefarian. Cool. But then you release 4.1 and the troll dungeons. The question is why? Why would Alliance members care about Zul'Aman? If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, wouldn't it make more sense for the Alliance to support the rising Amani empire? After all, the trolls creating a second front against Sylvanas who is pushing south couldn't be a bad thing. Why, considering the aggressions of the Horde, would we allow a troll emissary, let alone help a troll faction leader? WHY DO WE HELP AN ENEMY FACTION LEADER?? There is a living Trollbane in Outland. Why could he not come back to lead the Alliance offensive? Why couldn't Varien get off his throne and smash the rising troll incursion. It would be the largest and closest threat to Stormwind. WHERE IS ANY STORYTELLING FOR THE ALLIANCE? Why are the 'neutral' factions not waging war on the Horde? (argent crusade attacking Sylvanas for using the plague, any/all druid factions attacking the horde for the burning of Ashenvale)

And then comes 4.2. The fall of the Firelord, and the rise of the World Shaman. Thrall becoming the world shaman is very problematic for several reasons. Since his closest counterpart is Tirion Fordring, that's who we compare him to. Tirion fought during the 2nd war, but was removed from his order for not butchering Orcs. Even in Classic WoW, he is a neutral NPC. He gives quests to either side from his home in Eastern Plaguelands (probably doesn't anymore). For the life of our characters, he has been neutral. He goes from neutral human, to neutral human and leader of a new neutral faction.
Thrall is...well Thrall. For those of us who played Orcs and Humans and WC2, Thrall is the aberration. We knew the horde to be fel-tainted, monsterous, savages who destroyed their world and now seek to raze everything in ours to the ground. But not Thrall. He sought to end the corruption of his people, to bring a peaceful shamanistic side to the Horde. The Horde we see in WoW is Thrall's horde. Without him, it is a mindless killing machine that the Alliance should have put down at the end of the second war. He chose to forge a tentative peace with the Alliance @ Theramore, and, while he was Warchief, would reign in the more aggressive members of his faction. In 4.0, we see him give up his title of warchief, and try to become neutral. Up until this point, everything is gravy. Tense, but gravy.

Blizzard said that they view characters that go neutral for the greater good as 'world characters.' And then 4.2 came. One of the big selling points of 4.2 was this questline to help put thrall back together. (the 2nd time Alliance members have saved him, the first being in CoT:hillsbrad) And then come the quest Elemental Bonds: Fury. And it all falls apart.
Can someone please explain why I would help Thrall after he yells that? This supposedly neutral character is swearing to kill my king and raze our cities. No, I think I'll take my chances with Ragnaros and Deathwing, walk over and shove my sword through Thrall's chest or cave his skull in with my mace. Thanks. This orc is my enemy, he is still a member of the Horde and is not to be trusted. He IS NOT A NEUTRAL NPC!! And what is comming in 4.3? Thrall becoming the Earth warder? Great, so I'm going to help MY ENEMY BECOME AN ASPECT?!?!?! Forgive the caps, but this is stupid on an order of magnitude beyond disbelief.

So after an entire expansion of the Alliance doing things that are either in direction opposition to any possible goal our member races have or just doing nothing, and you expect me to believe that the Horde offensive against Theramore is what snaps them out of this...stupor of doing nothing? We have a second race become refugees, and we do nothing. Oh, but someone pissing off Jaina...THAT wakes up the neighbors. That sound you hear is me scoffing in disbelief

You (Blizzard) forget or ignored the Alliance's side of the story for an entire expansion, and then comes blizzcon. (No, the whole Corpsegrinder incident is not ok, but that is a different topic) We're told that there will be an epic quest line in which we'll get to see King Varien become a worthy king for the Alliance. Oh, we get to be his page. Well golly gee thanks Blizz! I'm so happy I get to see the story this time. /end sarcasam. Excuse me, but didn't a blue poster state a while (more than a while) ago that we were no longer the random footment or orcs from WC3, but had become the heros? Didn't the Lich King call us "the greatest collection of heros Azeroth has ever known?" And we get to be his page. Not his Men-at-arms, not his trusted bodygaurds, not the elite shocktroops at his personal disposal, but his page. The boy that runs around SW chasing his sister...that is page material. Players who have fought against legions, the Lich King, the Firelord, the Twilight Cult, etc are NOT pages.

I'm sorry, did I miss the memo that Alliance players would get to pay less for Cataclysm? Because we certainly are not getting the same quality of product that people who play as Horde characters do.

It comes with sorrow and regret that I say these things, but this is why I have no interest or intent to buy Mists. I'm sorry Blizzard. I have been a fan for a very long time. Maybe too long because I care about this too much. But the trust has been broken, the faith lost, and the goodwill has run out. I will be staying through part of dragon soul due to guild obligations, but I will not see you next expansion.

I'm not really sure what the breaking point was. Maybe leaking something like "in light of ever growing Horde aggression, the Alliance retakes Gilnaes/Lorderon" would have made everything alright. But I waited an expansion for my faction's side of the story to be told. It never came.


Yea this sums up my feelings on the whole thing, except for the quitting part.

Great post
Edited by Paladinchaz on 10/28/2011 9:12 AM PDT
Horde Invades and Destroys Theramore. Alliance relaliates. at the end of the war Alliance rule all of the Eastern Kingdoms, and northern half Kalimdor. Quel'Thalas will be it's own separate neutral faction. The Tuaren will rule the Barrens, Mulgore, Tanaris, Thousand Needles, and Un'Guro Crater. The Trolls will have Durator, Echo Isles, and Desolase.

The Orcs will once again wind up in prison, only they're held in a Troll prison and will be released early for good behaivor. Soemhow Outland gets fixed and reforms into the planet Draenor again and the Orcs move back there. The Forsaken are wiped off the map.


I wouldn't miss the Forsaken, and the Alliance have wanted Lordearon back for a LONG time now, perhaps Garrosh stupidly attacking Theramore will inspire the Alliance to get off their self adoring butts and actually DO something about Lordearon, the biggest thorn in their side all along. Or maybe they'll do what they've always done, Whine and look brooding and menacing and mentally damage their children while they struggle with their angst.
85 Gnome Death Knight
2835
10/28/2011 06:35 AMPosted by Nystandria
How does this thread have 132 pages of posts?


Because it's a great indication how upset the Alliance players are we are going to be dealt yet another major defeat without being allowed to respond in any way?
100 Human Paladin
16150
10/28/2011 09:20 AMPosted by Trigonometry
Because it's a great indication how upset the Alliance players are we are going to be dealt yet another major defeat without being allowed to respond in any way?


Yea its a bit irritating getting kicked around in the story without being able to do anything about it due to game mechanics.
85 Draenei Priest
2295
Since you extended the post cap and are clearly, maybe, paying attention. Read this.


While it may be the first move of Mists, can you not see how it looks as a continuation of Cataclysm? To an Alliance player, it looks like the 10th move the horde are getting to our one.

We were told that Cataclysm was going to bring back the Horde vs Alliance aspect. When this was announced, I was very excited for a living, moving, dynamic world. But what happened? Alliance lost territory to the Horde during the chaos that was the Cataclysm and Deathwing's arrival, and then nothing. No counter offensive, no cries for vengence for south shore, no massive push to retake Gilnaes, no push back against the Horde offensive in Ashenvale. There was just nothing.

You say this, but there is no evidence of it. So the Horde, despite being divided, launch multiple successful assaults on Alliance territory, but the Alliance leadership does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Where is the Tyrande from WC3, clad in Sentinel armor and riding her battle saber out against the Horde who are destroying the forest? In the 4.0 raids, we defeat the Twilight Cult and rekill Nefarian. Cool. But then you release 4.1 and the troll dungeons. The question is why? Why would Alliance members care about Zul'Aman? If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, wouldn't it make more sense for the Alliance to support the rising Amani empire? After all, the trolls creating a second front against Sylvanas who is pushing south couldn't be a bad thing. Why, considering the aggressions of the Horde, would we allow a troll emissary, let alone help a troll faction leader? WHY DO WE HELP AN ENEMY FACTION LEADER?? There is a living Trollbane in Outland. Why could he not come back to lead the Alliance offensive? Why couldn't Varien get off his throne and smash the rising troll incursion. It would be the largest and closest threat to Stormwind. WHERE IS ANY STORYTELLING FOR THE ALLIANCE? Why are the 'neutral' factions not waging war on the Horde? (argent crusade attacking Sylvanas for using the plague, any/all druid factions attacking the horde for the burning of Ashenvale)

And then comes 4.2. The fall of the Firelord, and the rise of the World Shaman. Thrall becoming the world shaman is very problematic for several reasons. Since his closest counterpart is Tirion Fordring, that's who we compare him to. Tirion fought during the 2nd war, but was removed from his order for not butchering Orcs. Even in Classic WoW, he is a neutral NPC. He gives quests to either side from his home in Eastern Plaguelands (probably doesn't anymore). For the life of our characters, he has been neutral. He goes from neutral human, to neutral human and leader of a new neutral faction.
Thrall is...well Thrall. For those of us who played Orcs and Humans and WC2, Thrall is the aberration. We knew the horde to be fel-tainted, monsterous, savages who destroyed their world and now seek to raze everything in ours to the ground. But not Thrall. He sought to end the corruption of his people, to bring a peaceful shamanistic side to the Horde. The Horde we see in WoW is Thrall's horde. Without him, it is a mindless killing machine that the Alliance should have put down at the end of the second war. He chose to forge a tentative peace with the Alliance @ Theramore, and, while he was Warchief, would reign in the more aggressive members of his faction. In 4.0, we see him give up his title of warchief, and try to become neutral. Up until this point, everything is gravy. Tense, but gravy.

Blizzard said that they view characters that go neutral for the greater good as 'world characters.' And then 4.2 came. One of the big selling points of 4.2 was this questline to help put thrall back together. (the 2nd time Alliance members have saved him, the first being in CoT:hillsbrad) And then come the quest Elemental Bonds: Fury. And it all falls apart. Can someone please explain why I would help Thrall after he yells that? This supposedly neutral character is swearing to kill my king and raze our cities. No, I think I'll take my chances with Ragnaros and Deathwing, walk over and shove my sword through Thrall's chest or cave his skull in with my mace. Thanks. This orc is my enemy, he is still a member of the Horde and is not to be trusted. He IS NOT A NEUTRAL NPC!! And what is comming in 4.3? Thrall becoming the Earth warder? Great, so I'm going to help MY ENEMY BECOME AN ASPECT?!?!?! Forgive the caps, but this is stupid on an order of magnitude beyond disbelief.

So after an entire expansion of the Alliance doing things that are either in direction opposition to any possible goal our member races have or just doing nothing, and you expect me to believe that the Horde offensive against Theramore is what snaps them out of this...stupor of doing nothing? We have a second race become refugees, and we do nothing. Oh, but someone pissing off Jaina...THAT wakes up the neighbors. That sound you hear is me scoffing in disbelief

You (Blizzard) forget or ignored the Alliance's side of the story for an entire expansion, and then comes blizzcon. (No, the whole Corpsegrinder incident is not ok, but that is a different topic) We're told that there will be an epic quest line in which we'll get to see King Varien become a worthy king for the Alliance. Oh, we get to be his page. Well golly gee thanks Blizz! I'm so happy I get to see the story this time. /end sarcasam. Excuse me, but didn't a blue poster state a while (more than a while) ago that we were no longer the random footment or orcs from WC3, but had become the heros? Didn't the Lich King call us "the greatest collection of heros Azeroth has ever known?" And we get to be his page. Not his Men-at-arms, not his trusted bodygaurds, not the elite shocktroops at his personal disposal, but his page. The boy that runs around SW chasing his sister...that is page material. Players who have fought against legions, the Lich King, the Firelord, the Twilight Cult, etc are NOT pages.

I'm sorry, did I miss the memo that Alliance players would get to pay less for Cataclysm? Because we certainly are not getting the same quality of product that people who play as Horde characters do.

It comes with sorrow and regret that I say these things, but this is why I have no interest or intent to buy Mists. I'm sorry Blizzard. I have been a fan for a very long time. Maybe too long because I care about this too much. But the trust has been broken, the faith lost, and the goodwill has run out. I will be staying through part of dragon soul due to guild obligations, but I will not see you next expansion.

I'm not really sure what the breaking point was. Maybe leaking something like "in light of ever growing Horde aggression, the Alliance retakes Gilnaes/Lorderon" would have made everything alright. But I waited an expansion for my faction's side of the story to be told. It never came.


Incredibly well stated.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8990
I won't repost that rather lengthy dissertation, but I find it a well written and concise explanation as to the anger and irritation felt by the players of the Alliance faction.

Me? I'm Horde for life, but I hate unbalanced issues.
100 Dwarf Paladin
5270
I think the point of the Theramore attack is as an instigation to motivate all out war. I know that there is already plenty of reasons for head smashing, but I feel like the writers want there to be a "last straw" kind of thing. Well, assaulting Theramore, the seat of one of the biggest advocates for Horde/Alliance cooperation, would certainly do that. If it makes you feel better, it casts the Alliance in a more honorable defensive light.

In fact, the writers might actually WANT you to feel the way you do right now because it will increase the emotional impact when inevitable hammer does fall.

And yes, for a paladin, everything's a hammer.
85 Night Elf Rogue
6960
Bring back Calia Menethil and retake Lordaeron for the Alliance! I'm all for it. Make it a big battle event or something
10/25/2011 10:06 AMPosted by Ardrin
the alliance destroyed camp tourajo and slaughtered the villagers


...they allowed the civilians to flee...those that stayed behind to fight, died honorably. the Forsaken attacked Southshore, and while civilians fled to saftey, they were hunted down like animals, and put into a concentration camp, where the Forsaken experimented on them with their plague of undeath. They killed them, then raised them as undead, flesh eating, mindless ghouls. Yet they claim they're NOT evil.



When are we going to retaliate? When are we going to get a DECENT (horde has plenty of those) victory? When are our leaders getting 1/10 of the participation horde ones do? When are we going to see our own history (Oshu'Gun and Worgen would like to say hello)?
When are we not going to NEED to read a damn novel to see the lore that should be IN GAME?

Screw Theramore. No one cares about that piece of land. What we care is that Alliance has NEVER had the upper hand in any conflict IN GAME. If this was for ONE EXPANSION, ok. But it has beem 4 already. 4 expansions of horde obviously being the superior faction in both military conquests and lore development.


We could reclaim Ashenvale, but then the Horde would whine about it. We could reclaim Gilneas or Southshore, but then they'd whine about that too. Doesn't seem to matter what Alliance does, cause Horde will whine about it.


LOL, not whine...fight BACK, Only the Alliance whines, as this entire thread clearly demonstrates. Where is Varian? Oh yeah, mentally tormenting his kid last I checked, while he drowns in his own angst and pride. Garrosh is a moron, no horde honors him, we remain horde because all others have tried to kill or enslave us and the Alliances main leader has never shown any semblance of anything but borderline insanity similar to Arthas, and HE was a great shining example of Alliance honor wasn't he? The Horde never claimed to be "good" or "bad" we are simply the Horde, and we will fight for our survival and the continued exhistance of our peoples.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8990
I think the point of the Theramore attack is as an instigation to motivate all out war. I know that there is already plenty of reasons for head smashing, but I feel like the writers want there to be a "last straw" kind of thing. Well, assaulting Theramore, the seat of one of the biggest advocates for Horde/Alliance cooperation, would certainly do that. If it makes you feel better, it casts the Alliance in a more honorable defensive light.

In fact, the writers might actually WANT you to feel the way you do right now because it will increase the emotional impact when inevitable hammer does fall.

And yes, for a paladin, everything's a hammer.


Speaking as a player, if I were on the Alliance faction, all of this wouldn't make me mad at the Horde.

I'd be pissed off at the Developers. Hence, this thread and 135+ pages.

It's not the Horde players who are kicking their asses, it's the DEVELOPERS. No Horde Raid burned down Southshore for good. No Horde Raid went in and camped Gilneas until everyone gave up and moved their hearthstones to Stormwind.

No Horde Raid is going to burn down Theramore.

It's going to be a Developer-induced loss. They have no chance, they have no choice, and for the last year's worth of 'mandatory' losses, with no allowed retaliation...And now, the first thing they're told is is that they're losing Theramore.

People aren't grasping the anger here. It's not directed at the Horde at all. It's frustration and irritation and cynicism directed at the Developers for the lack of follow-through for the Alliance in Cataclysm and LK.

Or 'was' there a retaliation for the ambush and slaughter at the Broken Front? I don't remember one.

Point is this: They're tired of being punching bags for the sole purpose of boosting Horde pride.
90 Human Paladin
11550
I think the point of the Theramore attack is as an instigation to motivate all out war. I know that there is already plenty of reasons for head smashing, but I feel like the writers want there to be a "last straw" kind of thing. Well, assaulting Theramore, the seat of one of the biggest advocates for Horde/Alliance cooperation, would certainly do that. If it makes you feel better, it casts the Alliance in a more honorable defensive light.

In fact, the writers might actually WANT you to feel the way you do right now because it will increase the emotional impact when inevitable hammer does fall.

And yes, for a paladin, everything's a hammer.


Speaking as a player, if I were on the Alliance faction, all of this wouldn't make me mad at the Horde.

I'd be pissed off at the Developers. Hence, this thread and 135+ pages.

It's not the Horde players who are kicking their asses, it's the DEVELOPERS. No Horde Raid burned down Southshore for good. No Horde Raid went in and camped Gilneas until everyone gave up and moved their hearthstones to Stormwind.

No Horde Raid is going to burn down Theramore.

It's going to be a Developer-induced loss. They have no chance, they have no choice, and for the last year's worth of 'mandatory' losses, with no allowed retaliation...And now, the first thing they're told is is that they're losing Theramore.

People aren't grasping the anger here. It's not directed at the Horde at all. It's frustration and irritation and cynicism directed at the Developers for the lack of follow-through for the Alliance in Cataclysm and LK.

Or 'was' there a retaliation for the ambush and slaughter at the Broken Front? I don't remember one.

Point is this: They're tired of being punching bags for the sole purpose of boosting Horde pride.


A great post.
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