Theramore in flames: Horde favoritism. pt. 2

90 Draenei Shaman
11990
Personally I'm still miffed more about presentation rather than the storyline. It doesnt make me happy knowing that even though the Alliance managed to win back Gilneas and fought the forsaken to a stalemate there is still a large number of players who were not made aware of it.

Not even a quest acknowledging the win, even a slight quest that ask you deliver a message? Not to mention the worgen questline feels like it ended up too abruptly.
100 Tauren Druid
20770
10/28/2011 05:21 PMPosted by Jaelara
And the vast, vast, VAST majority of moves have been made by the Horde.


Yes, because for balance sake, the horde actually have to have stuff to be able to lose it. In vanilla the Alliance had a lot more territory to themselves, far outweighing the Horde. Even the main Horde questing point... the barrens had Alliance quests and neutral ones. Places like the wetlands / duskwood / redridge were pure alliance only.

So in Cata they rebalanced it, making the Horde actually advance a little to balance out the zone control. Makes sense... only way they can do though is by victories in some of them.

Ashenvale is not a horde victory btw... it's a stalemate as the questlines start with the Horde advance up to maestra's and then they get kicked back in the alliance quests, to Splintertree.

Alliance win in swamp of sorrows, and the only reason it's not a decisive victory is that Horde are keeping their teleport portal location. Maybe that's why Alliance may lose Theramore completely ... to balance out the losses there. Who knows.

Point is though, for horde to lose things, they need to have things to lose without unbalancing the game. The Horde doesn't really. (Although granted you don't see the Horde on the doorstep of the major alliance cities, unlike the Alliance in S barrens etc. And no Gilneas doesn't count as they were not part of the Alliance until after the invasion of the place)

This is honestly an odd and difficult conversation to have about Theramore right now. It'd be like reading Lord of the Rings up to the point where Gandalf gets trapped atop Orthanc, stopping there, hearing from someone that he later falls to his death fighting a balrog, then complaining that his character could've been developed so much better before the story ended.

Yea, I went there. I really, truly need a weekend, 'cause I didn't get one last week.


I love the analogy. But have a good and relaxing weekend too :)
10/28/2011 05:16 PMPosted by Naura
If Theramore gets destroyed, will there be another questing hub for the Alliance? If not, will the Dustwallow questing achievement be removed?

A number of the Dustwallow quests currently are neutral, the old warrior pointed out pointedly.
100 Gnome Rogue
20990
10/28/2011 04:59 PMPosted by Zarhym
This is honestly an odd and difficult conversation to have about Theramore right now. It'd be like reading Lord of the Rings up to the point where Gandalf gets trapped atop Orthanc, stopping there, hearing from someone that he later falls to his death fighting a balrog, then complaining that his character could've been developed so much better before the story ended.


Except the halflings didn't have to whip out their credit card and join Sauron's force to find out wth happened to Frodo. Alliance have to reroll Horde to find out how they lost everything and then wonder why Horde quests get to deal with taking territories while Alliance players are asked to go collect more bear asses and be reminded they should be ashamed of the one victory they had in the Barrens.

Again, it's not the story that's the problem. It's how you've implemented it in game. Alliance don't get to fight and lose Gilneas, they just get told their faction is inept and not proactive. Horde get to fight, make their case and participate in the current sieges.
Edited by Oddjob on 10/28/2011 5:43 PM PDT
90 Human Death Knight
13075
I also want to see Greymane rip some heads. A worgen brigade needs to be established and the 7th Legion needs to lead a counter attack.

Seriously their motto is like the coolest army motto I ever seen in the game.


Yeah, next thing you know you'll hear about worgen retaliating against the forsaken and destroying their settlements in Silverpine and Hillsbrad.
85 Troll Hunter
4915
everybody wishes they wrote for blizzard... will you let them tell THEIR story?
Community Manager
10/28/2011 05:27 PMPosted by Quirnheim
"HURR I AM FRUSTRATED AS YOU DON"T TRUST US"

That's a terrible summary of what I said which is, in and of itself, frustrating as hell. You're doing nothing but misrepresenting everything I've put a lot of time into carefully stating so as to avoid these lazy dismissals of my words. You're not contributing to a constructive conversation. You're not convincing me of any argument you're trying to make. You're embodying everything you don't want me to be. It's exhausting.

10/28/2011 05:27 PMPosted by Quirnheim
Also, the fact is: The vast majority of us, myself included, DO NOT CARE if we lose Theramore. All we care about is that the Alliance gets a good story, something that has been lost in Cataclysm; the Horde got all the goodies there, while we got re-hashed enemies(defias again lol) and got our asses kicked around Azeroth in every battle.

A story of loss is not always a bad story. My main is Alliance, but I also went back and played through the 1-60 content as a worgen. I loved the story, even being on the side suffering losses. The tension felt palpable and left me absorbed in the story, determined to go beat !@# with each quest I embarked on.

10/28/2011 05:27 PMPosted by Quirnheim
Not to mention the fact that it's hard to trust the words of a Developer when I heard the same things last year with Hillsbrad. "The Alliance will strike back!" followed by the Alliance DOING NOTHING and saying "oh sorry we had to cut lots of stuff cause we ran out of time workin on horde side lol".

I'm not a developer. But if you find that quote where we said we were going to make sure the Alliance immediately struck back in Hillsbrad, then came back and said, "oh sorry we had to cut lots of stuff cause we ran out of time workin on horde side lol," I'd love to read it. You did such a good job quoting me at the beginning of your post I can only assume this paraphrasing is equally as spot on.
90 Draenei Shaman
11990
everybody wishes they wrote for blizzard... will you let them tell THEIR story?


Not like we have a choice in the matter, honestly I think people feel passionate about the story(hence why this thread is this long). And when people feel the story is losing its appeal you get turn off and may even stop caring.
85 Draenei Shaman
7220
Honestly, I like the fact we lose quite a bit.

It gives the sense of having your back against he wall lore-wise, and I can imagine how it can lead to some pretty heroic encounters.
90 Undead Warrior
15325
10/28/2011 05:45 PMPosted by Zarhym
"HURR I AM FRUSTRATED AS YOU DON"T TRUST US"

That's a terrible summary of what I said which is, in and of itself, frustrating as hell. You're doing nothing but misrepresenting everything I've put a lot of time into carefully stating so as to avoid these lazy dismissals of my words. You're not contributing to a constructive conversation. You're not convincing me of any argument you're trying to make. You're embodying everything you don't want me to be. It's exhausting.

Also, the fact is: The vast majority of us, myself included, DO NOT CARE if we lose Theramore. All we care about is that the Alliance gets a good story, something that has been lost in Cataclysm; the Horde got all the goodies there, while we got re-hashed enemies(defias again lol) and got our asses kicked around Azeroth in every battle.

A story of loss is not always a bad story. My main is Alliance, but I also went back and played through the 1-60 content as a worgen. I loved the story, even being on the side suffering losses. The tension felt palpable and left me absorbed in the story, determined to go beat !@# with each quest I embarked on.

Not to mention the fact that it's hard to trust the words of a Developer when I heard the same things last year with Hillsbrad. "The Alliance will strike back!" followed by the Alliance DOING NOTHING and saying "oh sorry we had to cut lots of stuff cause we ran out of time workin on horde side lol".

I'm not a developer. But if you find that quote where we said we were going to make sure the Alliance immediately struck back in Hillsbrad, then came back and said, "oh sorry we had to cut lots of stuff cause we ran out of time workin on horde side lol," I'd love to read it. You did such a good job quoting me at the beginning of your post I can only assume this paraphrasing is equally as spot on.


I would hate to have your job. Does your hand ever start to shake before you hit the submit button, knowing that some random forum troll will inevitably misinterpret your words to fit what he already wants to believe?
85 Troll Hunter
4915
10/28/2011 05:46 PMPosted by Quirnheim

That's a terrible summary of what I said which is, in and of itself, frustrating as hell. You're doing nothing but misrepresenting everything I've put a lot of time into carefully stating so as to avoid these lazy dismissals of my words. You're not contributing to a constructive conversation. You're not convincing me of any argument you're trying to make. You're embodying everything you don't want me to be. It's exhausting.


A story of loss is not always a bad story. My main is Alliance, but I also went back and played through the 1-60 content as a worgen. I loved the story, even being on the side suffering losses. The tension felt palpable and left me absorbed in the story, determined to go beat !@# with each quest I embarked on.


I'm not a developer. But if you find that quote where we said we were going to make sure the Alliance immediately struck back in Hillsbrad, then came back and said, "oh sorry we had to cut lots of stuff cause we ran out of time workin on horde side lol," I'd love to read it. You did such a good job quoting me at the beginning of your post I can only assume this paraphrasing is equally as spot on.


Look.

I'm frustrated. I apologize.

You have to understand - I play on both Alliance and Horde. I enjoy playing BOTH factions. It's annoying to see one faction get goodies while the other faction gets to eat a turd sandwich.

Also: Just to touch on one point. "A story of loss" is a good story, I agree.

But when the Alliance story involves nothing to do with loss and everything to do with gathering bear butts while the Horde get quests to kill hundreds of Alliance soldiers, that's not a story of loss. That's a story of bear butts.



you can still be polite... what makes you think they will care what you have to say, when you are disrespectful of their answers..
90 Worgen Death Knight
Zen
16225
10/28/2011 05:46 PMPosted by Quirnheim
A story of loss is not always a bad story. My main is Alliance, but I also went back and played through the 1-60 content as a worgen. I loved the story, even being on the side suffering losses. The tension felt palpable and left me absorbed in the story, determined to go beat !@# with each quest I embarked on.


This is fine Zarhym, at least now your stating alliance is on the side suffering losses that's all that matters earlier you said you just don't see it, I really think that's what got people upset. Its nice to know someone in that company see's the alliance is the losing side of this conflict but sometimes its hard to see that from a customer side when so far alliance has done nothing to react to aggressions made against them. And at blizzcon we get FOR THE HORDE screams four times as often as for the alliance by devs. Btw not sure if you saw it but I made a pretty decent list a few pages back of what all the horde has done that the alliance in this expansion has let slide without any type of counter.
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