Theramore in flames: Horde favoritism. pt. 2

87 Human Warrior
8150



What you listed is a bunch of mechanics issues, a pendulum that has been swinging back and forth for 7 years. That's not the issue here, it never has been. Our concern is about the treatment of the Alliance narrative past and future.

Here's my challenge...either answer my question below or get off the thread.



Lady Prestor pre Cata.

Bye now.


How the !@#$ did you miss the "in CATA" part? He even capsed it for you.
Edited by Charagon on 11/3/2011 9:43 PM PDT
5 Orc Shaman
0
Officially starting vote for a "blue" to ninja delete this topic...

/signed


There are several typical responses by people not liking the thread.

1. It's just a game (even though both sides pay equally for it)

2. reroll horde or quit (not addressing the valid points and issues)

3. lock/delete thread (ignore, head in the sand time, because that will make it all better.)

This thread has a reason and a purpose. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it invalid.
And what's the purpose? This thread was started based off of a fraction of a story. Now, if we would know that the Alliance has theramore burned and Varian goes to the bahamas, then I could understand a little. But people are filling in the blanks so they can be right. So they can have a reason to feel validated.

And it's quite obvious that the people that say "It's just a game" are treating it as something much, much more. An attack to them personally. Which I just can't understand.

As sad as it is, people love this kind of thing. They love having something that they can rage about and feel that it's validated. And if it weren't this, it would be something else. And you can count on that.
Edited by Rhogh on 11/3/2011 9:44 PM PDT
85 Draenei Paladin
3615
And you just quoted the only significant story that has ever happened for the Humans, that story was completed 5 years ago largely through Comics and novels and nothing has happened since then that hasn't been reactionary to whatever big bad is on tap. I suppose you didn't notice where I said "IN CATA."
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3540


Lady Prestor pre Cata.

Bye now.


How the !@#$ did you miss the "in CATA" part? He even capsed it for you.

I didn't. I ignored it.

Wanna know why. Because as an Alliance player I had one of the best storylines in the game until it was removed because of Varian Wrynn comming back which was an ALLIANCE QQ FEST at the time also.

So making the statement that a portion of the story that we are currently playing in is unfair because the story isn't going to be finished or appeasing to Alliance whiners in the content we are currently in and will continue into MoP tends to be pedantic.
Edited by Krevniprava on 11/3/2011 9:50 PM PDT
87 Human Warrior
8150
11/03/2011 09:43 PMPosted by Rhogh
And what's the purpose? This thread was started based off of a fraction of a story. Now, if we would know that the Alliance has theramore burned and Varian goes to the bahamas, then I could understand a little. But people are filling in the blanks so they can be right. So they can have a reason to feel validated.
People are filling in the blanks because we're familiar with the pattern of behavior. We've already gone through all this with the loss of Southshore.

Beyond that it's clear from examples previously posted that Blizzard did not put the same amount of effort into Alliance content. The Alliance story in Cata has basically put us into the position of NPCs for the Horde to kill.

Blizzard designed, advertised, and sold this game under the idea that we were supposed to pick a side. Now Blizzard is punishing me for picking the "wrong" one by neglecting to create an equal amount of compelling content.
87 Human Warrior
8150


How the !@#$ did you miss the "in CATA" part? He even capsed it for you.

I didn't. I ignored it.


Ignore. What a splendid idea.

Bye now.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3540

I didn't. I ignored it.


Ignore. What a splendid idea.

Bye now.

As long as you stop posting I'm all for it.
90 Orc Death Knight
5940
Bottom line is, War is hell, Alliance deal with it or be crushed under the iron fist of the Horde!!
11/03/2011 10:00 PMPosted by Merathian
Bottom line is, War is hell, Alliance deal with it or be crushed under the iron fist of the Horde!!


It's easy to say that when the guys writing the war are on your side.
85 Human Death Knight
3700


Ignore. What a splendid idea.

Bye now.

As long as you stop posting I'm all for it.


Will you two get a room?

85 Worgen Hunter
2360
11/03/2011 10:00 PMPosted by Merathian
Bottom line is, War is hell, Alliance deal with it or be crushed under the iron fist of the Horde!!


No amount of player actions will change things that have been written and coded into the game. We could occupy Lorderon on every server. It would still belong to the Forsaken.

Blizzard is the only one who can fix this.
85 Orc Warrior
3805
I'm a little suprised that nobody saw this coming.

1. Thrall, who had a deal with Jaina leaves power.

2. Garrosh, who wants the Alliance gone gains power.

3. Garrosh attacks and destroys Theramore, one of the biggest Alliance forts on Kalimdor, and very close to Orgrimmar.

4. Players are somehow suprised.
Edited by Nakthiz on 11/3/2011 10:11 PM PDT
85 Worgen Hunter
2360
11/03/2011 10:05 PMPosted by Krevniprava
Nothing is broken.


This is the only reply I will grace you with.

Alliance has pop culture references and jagged story fragments of 'we tried' or 'the Cataclysm was bad'. Horde has an epic Iliad of their triumphs over the TH and Alliance. There is indeed something wrong with that.

Blizzard themselves have fessed up and admitted they owe the Alliance player-base.
85 Human Warrior
10060
I love how most the horde here try and cite Alliance favortism in Vanilla but if you actually played WC2 and WC3 it made perfect sense. The horde were just starting so logically would have smaller cities and less territory. The game followed a natural development in BC and even WOTLK. IMO you could argue either way blizz played favorites because both sides had good development.

The only thing I've ever disagreed story wise with was the way blizzard handled Cata. While in a game with growing popularity they needed to even the questing territory out. They improved the horde questing experience and imo decreased the alliance questing experience. I wouldn't be so opposed to the idea of Theramore being destroyed if blizz had handled ANY of the territories that alliance still had in Cata better. You literally logged in read the patch notes as Alliance and that was the only way you found out what we lost, no quests nothing about it.

We literally have nothing to instill faction pride and it's quite clear after having leveled another toon on the alliance to 60 they did it on purpose. The horde quest chain sought to instill pride and train their future warriors. The alliance questing experience focuses almost entirely on loss, pop references, and playing clean up duty ... ridiculous. There is literally more Alliance lore on the horde side than the Alliance side.

Why destroy Sentinel Hill in Westfall?
Why focus so much on loss in Redridge?
Why did we liberate Ashenvale only to find out there is no phasing?
Why did the stormgarde phasing fail so bad?
Why did Alliance twilight Highlands intro get cut and the horde kept?
Why do all of our heroes turn to neutral factions and never return yet the second a horde hero goes neutral he is immediately said to be returning to the horde by blizzard?
Why is Danath Trollbane still in Outlands?
Why is Khadgar still in outlands?
Why did Alliance never get to see what happened in Gilneas?
Why do I have to play horde to find out?
Why did Alliance fight so hard at Andorhal then just get told "Sorry you lost we have to pull back"?
Why is Tirion ignoring the forsaken's use of the plague?

The reason people are so mad now is that the CM said "The first piece on the chess board is being made" ... Really I kind of thought that happened at maybe the Wrath gate or Howling fjord? Oh Cata maybe ... how bout Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Alterac, Arathi, Ashenvale, Southshore, Southern Barrens. Why do the Alliance need to be motivated into war when it appears to me we're already at war on every front? This is your own fault blizzard, the quest development for the 1-60 alliance content is pathetic and your own fault. Stop trying to punish one faction cause of the way your developers completely mishandled the resources at their disposal. Destroy a Horde town, Alliance has already lost enough this expansion it's time we actually get some pride back and destroy or take something instead of the other way around.

Sorry blizz but the only way you are restoring my faith at this point is by:
Returning Danath Trollbane to Stormgarde and restoring the wall.
Returning Khadgar to the Alliance.
Having Tirion start to attack the forsaken or at least warn them.
Returning Alleria and Turalyon to the Alliance as ALLIANCE and not neutral.
Having Cenarius start to attack horde in ashenvale.
Having Malfurion start to attack horde.
Giving Tyrande her battle armor back.
Improving alliance phasing, ie ashenvale and stormgarde.

Working on a real Alliance slogan I've made plenty of suggestions.
LONG LIVE THE LION
STAND PROUD LIONS OF AZEROTH
THROUGH HONOR/VALOR WE THRIVE

There is a reason Tor developers told the community they would never commit faction biased and they were looking directly at you Blizzard. People are getting concerned and other companies are feeding on that. You have a chance to correct your mistakes before it's to late. So stop doing a half !@# job on the Alliance and do something about it! Otherwise you will lose more subscriptions.
85 Human Death Knight
3700
11/03/2011 10:10 PMPosted by Nakthiz
Players are somehow suprised.


Accurate right up until here.
85 Draenei Paladin
3615
So do tell how long we're supposed to wait for the story to advance.

I've written several major analyses of the internal Alliance story arcs and how they're going nowhere. I doubt you'll read any of them so I'll summarize.

Onyxia and the Defias were the launch storylines for the Humans over 7 years ago. The entire Onyxia story got retconned and done via a comic book and there was no follow up. There's been no replacement story arc since. In BC Humans got nothing but cameos by WC2 characters who never did anything. There was no action in WOTLK that was not a direct reaction to the Arthas storyline. What little reaction there was reduced Varian to simply being a hothead that smoldered with generic rage and reduced Jaina to being an emotional girl that was defined by her ex-boyfriend.

Dwarves are the only alliance race that has achieved any significant success with their Titan origins. They had a good setup with the Council of Three Hammers in CATA but did anything important ever come of that....no.

Gnomes, most of the Alliance have no idea who Gelbin Mekkatorque. Unlike the trolls they didn't get their home back in WOTLK. No story progression at all for them.

Night Elves, have accomplished absolutely nothing in 7 years other than having characters go evil or neutral at a steady clip. Tyrande has been almost totally unused up to this point.

Draenei have done nothing since the BC xpac. Most Alliance players barely know who Velen is.

Worgen got a great starting zone in CATA but then fall off the face of the earth once they take the boat to Darnassus.

This is all in comparison to the development that the Forsaken and Slyvanas are getting. They developed their plague in vanilla, Slyvanas had a defining character moment in BC, and then she went to have a major co-starring role in WOTLK where unlike Jaina she didn't look like a fool. The Wrathgate event had been building since vanilla and the resulting coup attempt had major reprecussions leading into CATA. Forsaken get a 3 zone long ride with the Forsaken war machine in which Slyvanas and Garrosh have defining interactions and Slyvanas gets a major almost religious epiphany at the Greymane Wall after horde players get the second half of the Worgen story arc which Alliance players can't even experience.

Thrall and Garrosh's characterization goes all the way back to Vanilla. Garrosh gets recruited by Thrall in Nagrand. Players get to see him meet his grandmother and learn his true name. His journey to becoming the World Shaman starts there. In WOTLK there's the major sub-plot of the increasing militancy of the Horde which goes on INDEPENDENT of the rest of the WOTLK storyline and by the end of WOTLK the leadership of the Horde is in turmoil going into CATA with major parts being played by Garrosh, Thrall and Vol'jin ALL OF WHICH IS HAPPENING INDEPENDENT OF THE DEATHWING STORYLINE. Oh and like I said the Trolls score a major victory and create a new sub-capital...nothing much. Then in CATA there is a four zone long spree in tandem with the Orc Offensive in Kalimdor that also ends in a character defining moment for Garrosh. And of course Thrall, Super Shaman.

I'm sorry...for you to say that the Onyxia event somehow is equivalent to all of THAT... I wish. I got news for you...a lot of us are tired of being told to wait and wait and wait. Alot of us are tired of having our content cut because of time restrictions when apparently the same doesn't hold true for the Horde (IE Goblin district in Org vs the Worgen Tree which apparently came about at the last minute when the SW Worgen District couldn't be done. Or the missing cinematic for the intro to the Twilight Highlands while the Horde's was done). We're tired of veiled mockery at Blizzcon. Now here's the thing. If we decide we're not being entertained and decide to spend our money elsewhere...that's less money for Blizzard which means less resources total devoted to the game which means less stuff for you. So pack up your little troll act, put the blind "For the Horde!" mentality on hold for 5 minutes and recognize that there might just be a problem.
80 Human Priest
3805
Speaking as someone who has been an avid Blizzard fan since WCII, I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed. I started off playing, and still play, Alliance, because that was what I enjoyed playing most in Warcraft. I can respect Metzen as an artist, but his attitude towards the factions is somewhat grating.
I remember watching the opening ceremonies of Blizzcon, and metzen walks out with the doomhammer, wearing an alliance hoodie. Ever since I fist saw him 3 years ago,he annoyed me. Dunno what caused it, but I digress.
in conversations with my friends, I noted that Varian is by far my least favorite character, withthe possible exception of Garrosh now. He's bigoted, racist, and pig-headed, but he actually does stuff.
Sorry, rambling due to exhaustion, will try to stay on task.
Losing Theramore may or may not be a huge blow to the Alliance. I oftentimes see devs pushing content or results through that are supposed to be earth-shattering, but the expected impact was not forthcoming. I'm not talking about the constant balance changes and whatnot, but I remember flying over southshore and going wtf? Then I see the destruction of SW, and all the chaos as a result of Deathwing and the toll of the Northrend campaign. It seems like the Alliance is a line of dominoes, each one being knocked over only to lead to another event that screws us over.
I miss the times of WCII, when we had leaders willing to kick butt and take names. The alliance is never given an opportunity to fight for whatever contested land we end up losing. Excluding Andorhal, but that was hardly a fight.
And to the previous posters, yes, war is hell. The problem is, the war hasn't actually started for us yet. War involves one or more factions fighting each other. So far all the Alliance has done has been to mop up the mess. I'd like to see the walls of Stormwind decorated with the corpses of some Kor'kron.
90 Orc Death Knight
5940
11/03/2011 10:01 PMPosted by Snuggies
Bottom line is, War is hell, Alliance deal with it or be crushed under the iron fist of the Horde!!


It's easy to say that when the guys writing the war are on your side.



I started out alliance with this toon bud
11/03/2011 10:26 PMPosted by Merathian
I started out alliance with this toon bud


I've noticed that you aren't currently Alliance tho.

Iferil, well said.
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