Theramore in flames: Horde favoritism. pt. 2

100 Draenei Shaman
10690
10/24/2011 11:04 PMPosted by Lancelon
, and Garrosh and Varian will have some epic DBZ scale fight.


Our Goku vs your Nappa... interesting...
90 Human Paladin
13020
In my opinion...this was about the only scenario that would push Jaina out of her neutrality trip , other than killing an important alliance faction member which would have caused an even greater outcry than this has apparently.

Now the Alliance will officially declare an all out war on the Horde , and over the course of the end of Cata and into MoP they will destroy something of equal or greater importance to the Horde , make a big push to take back Lordaron probably (whether you agree with the logic of that they have any claim over Lordaron or not) and they will fail , and Garrosh and Varian will have some epic DBZ scale fight.


WE ALREADY DID XD

And then even in your !@#$%^-*! induced theory that the alliance isn't going to be the lame losing faction for another expansion you can't bring yourself to say that we might win something. Fun.
Edited by Grinsom on 10/24/2011 11:12 PM PDT
72 Blood Elf Mage
1850
10/24/2011 11:04 PMPosted by Zulrick
Yes and that's war. I understand you want something in return to feel like you're pretty bad !@# but we're not all bad guys just because of Garrosh. What do troops do in a war? Follow their leader. You don't see Voljin hating on Alliance and trying to kill all of you, he even went to you guys for help as well against the Zandalari. I'll admit it would be nice to see the Alliance push back a bit but I'm just saying a lot of people here seem to be wanting to do exactly what the horde is doing.


Vol'jin very well could be the only character in the game with real leadership skills. Maybe Genn, if he ever does anything. He does a pretty solid job in the Worgen starting zone, all things considered.
Edited by Kiranthyr on 10/24/2011 11:11 PM PDT
60 Troll Hunter
11600
10/24/2011 11:07 PMPosted by Zulrick
Can't we just make Voljin leader of the Horde?


First yes please.

<Obligatory Vol'jin for Warchief comment here>

Second I'm excited this thread is still going from last night

Third

10/24/2011 11:07 PMPosted by Nagy
Yeah, but this might not piss Jaina off enough, and from what I'm reading she's the metaphorical clog in the plumbing system that is the Alliance war machine.


I'm wondering mostly whether Jania is going to take the passive lets fix this route or the OH NO YOU DIDN'T route XD
100 Troll Druid
11630
Yes except you guys have spent this whole time trying to just be united while we've been falling apart.
90 Human Paladin
13020
10/24/2011 11:12 PMPosted by Zulrick
Yes except you guys have spent this whole time trying to just be united while we've been falling apart.


Well if falling apart means you are victorious on every front you fight on, must be working for you.
100 Blood Elf Warlock
10225
So would the expansion event thing like the elemental and undead invasion maybe be like horde and alliance invasion of the cities or an event in theramore?! :D ... I would love that.....
100 Draenei Warrior
18635
In my opinion...this was about the only scenario that would push Jaina out of her neutrality trip , other than killing an important alliance faction member which would have caused an even greater outcry than this has apparently.

Now the Alliance will officially declare an all out war on the Horde , and over the course of the end of Cata and into MoP they will destroy something of equal or greater importance to the Horde , make a big push to take back Lordaron probably (whether you agree with the logic of that they have any claim over Lordaron or not) and they will fail , and Garrosh and Varian will have some epic DBZ scale fight.


More like we'll win a marginal battle in some reeking pandarian bamboo forest that no one but the koi-samurai locals would possibly care about.
Edited by Kaioon on 10/24/2011 11:32 PM PDT
100 Troll Druid
11630
It's only working for now because of Garrosh having an iron fist and not taking slacking from anyone while Varian as been slacking and barely doing anything for the other races of the alliance until this so called book of his which discusses this. I'm hoping that your king actually smartens up and unifies them a bit more because then he's going to be on a true war path and eventually people are going to grow tired of Garrosh and his leadership.
2 Tauren Warrior
0
10/24/2011 11:12 PMPosted by Zulrick
Yes except you guys have spent this whole time trying to just be united while we've been falling apart.


Hahahaha. You're right!

How LAME would a faction have to be to lose all sorts of territory to another faction suffering from all sorts of civil unre...oh wait.
90 Human Paladin
13020
We already are on a warpath zul. You just haven't noticed it since it sucked. And now our offensive just got routed. What's your point again?
100 Draenei Shaman
10690
10/24/2011 11:10 PMPosted by Kiranthyr
Vol'jin very well could be the only character in the game with real leadership skills. Maybe Genn, if he ever does anything. He does a pretty solid job in the Worgen starting zone, all things considered.


Well you could argue Sylv certainly commands her forces well, even hiding some of her cards from her 'allies'

I always loved Magni, but he was down in his depression for far too long and is now on ice, or stone as the case may be.

Gelbin didnt have a very good display with his attempt to retake Gnomer failing.

Lor'themar has shown in the past he has the ability to get the job done, but falls prey to the same problem that many other leaders do;

Not many other races have really had any showing of leadership abilities. The lore just hasn't allowed them to develop any. Its all been about the Orcs vs Humans or Sylv being a !@#$%. And this is really a massive place that the game fails to deliver...
Blizzard Employee
I don't envy Zarhym's job. People aren't buying what he's selling. Possibly because that's how they sold us the last expansion and failed to deliver.

"Oh wait, but this time!"

I know I did talk about this subject when Cataclysm was the fresh, hot topic. I don't remember what my exact words were, though, and would love to read them again after seeing several people bring them up in this thread.

I'm pretty sure I never made any specific point that an equal amount of story and retribution would be dedicated to the Alliance in Cataclysm, because I was well aware of how most of the story would play out. The Horde made many more grabs for power and dominance when Thrall left. Then Thrall became the protagonist with the evolving story of each patch focusing on the efforts to defeat Deathwing.

The stories of the villains in the expansions so far have had pretty direct closure, but that's never been the case for the two player factions. And one shouldn't expect it to be with the conclusion of any expansion. Things will continue to change and there will be an ongoing tit-for-tat between the Horde and Alliance. If you start the story at Warcraft I and move forward, that's evident. Leaders have changed. Cities have been destroyed. New cities have been created. Land has been gained and lost. The races who have allied with either side have changed.

It's going to keep going and we have no ambitions to decisively make one faction less interesting or cool than the other. That's not a good design philosophy for two playable factions and it doesn't make for a flourishing story.

But you will win some and you will lose some. And the wins and losses won't be at equal intervals for both sides, aligning with the release of each patch or expansion.
100 Worgen Warrior
17480
10/24/2011 11:15 PMPosted by Zulrick
It's only working for now because of Garrosh having an iron fist and not taking slacking from anyone while Varian as been slacking and barely doing anything for the other races of the alliance until this so called book of his which discusses this. I'm hoping that your king actually smartens up and unifies them a bit more because then he's going to be on a true war path and eventually people are going to grow tired of Garrosh and his leadership.

The problem is not with Varian or any of the other Alliance leaders. Or, for that matter, the Alliance itself.

The problem is Blizzard's writers utterly refuse to do anything that puts the Alliance even slightly ahead of the Horde.

100 Worgen Warrior
17480


But you will win some and you will lose some. And the wins and losses won't be at equal intervals for both sides, aligning with the release of each patch or expansion.

We're not asking for equal treatment. We're just asking for SOMETHING.

You can let the Alliance win once or twice and still have the Horde winning the war.
85 Troll Druid
7450
I think everyone is forgetting that's it's not really a war if for an entire expansion nothing happens (for realsies).
52 Dwarf Hunter
3675
After Cata's endless sequences of horrible Alliance losses, unending crap from the lore, and continual outright hatred from the devs at Blizzcon for the last three years in a row, the only way I could say, "Yeah, that's definitely not another g-dd-mned loss" is if we eradicate an entire race of the Horde, except for the player characters.

You want to kick us in the friggin' teeth again, Metzen? Give us the entire Forsaken "species", permanently dead -impaled on steel spears every 10 feet alongside a road of vitrified earth from the ruins of Theramore up to the city walls of Orgrimmar. Give us Sylvanus's stuffed corpse dangling from a mithril chain from the gates of Ironforge so small dwarven children can throw urine-filled balloons at the hideous thing.

Then give us back Lordaeron, the city and the Nation. Then we can perhaps trust your promises.

Otherwise it's just another kick to the teeth by the lore team (who has admitted they hate Alliance) and just another time you force the Alliance to say, "Thank you sir may I have another."


90 Human Paladin
13020
I don't envy Zarhym's job. People aren't buying what he's selling. Possibly because that's how they sold us the last expansion and failed to deliver.

"Oh wait, but this time!"

I know I did talk about this subject when Cataclysm was the fresh, hot topic. I don't remember what my exact words were, though, and would love to read them again after seeing several people bring them up in this thread.

I'm pretty sure I never made any specific point that an equal amount of story and retribution would be dedicated to the Alliance in Cataclysm, because I was well aware of how most of the story would play out. The Horde made many more grabs for power and dominance when Thrall left. Then Thrall became the protagonist with the evolving story of each patch focusing on the efforts to defeat Deathwing.

The stories of the villains in the expansions so far have had pretty direct closure, but that's never been the case for the two player factions. And one shouldn't expect it to be with the conclusion of any expansion. Things will continue to change and there will be an ongoing tit-for-tat between the Horde and Alliance. If you start the story at Warcraft I and move forward, that's evident. Leaders have changed. Cities have been destroyed. New cities have been created. Land has been gained and lost. The races who have allied with either side have changed.

It's going to keep going and we have no ambitions to decisively make one faction less interesting or cool than the other. That's not a good design philosophy for two playable factions and it doesn't make for a flourishing story.

But you will win some and you will lose some. And the wins and losses won't be at equal intervals for both sides, aligning with the release of each patch or expansion.


Wouldn't you agree though, that two expansions of losing in a row is a bit much for a playable faction? Because

It's going to keep going and we have no ambitions to decisively make one faction less interesting or cool than the other. That's not a good design philosophy for two playable factions and it doesn't make for a flourishing story.


Is what is happening. You have effectively made the alliance look like a joke, and have routed the entire alliance offensive.
90 Human Death Knight
0
ANTEBELLUM, FOR THE ALLIANCE!
100 Night Elf Death Knight
23275
i for one welcome theramores destruction. its been hinted at that varian is going to be thrust into the spotlight and be a pillar of awesomeness for the alliance at blizzcon this year, so i guess we will have to see varians return salvo. at least blizz are doing SOMETHING with the game, the second half of wotlk and all of cata so far has been an unmitigated disaster imho. this game has been a massive disappointment since TOC. so lets hope theres some actual compelling writing coming up.

everyone around the world knows blizz have a massive hard-on for the horde ( and especially green jesus/superman thrall ), so time will tell if there bias continues, or if the alliance actually get a decent stake in the storytelling this time. because the alliance has been on the recieving end for farrrr to long.
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