MoP: Exceptionally dynamic feral pvp

90 Night Elf Druid
0
For those of you who haven't seen blizzards' future of feral:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM9rAKD8cow&feature=related

Whether you go the cat or bear route, there will be more control, mobility, and utility blends than we have ever had before.

In the same spec an MoP bear/cat feral will be capable of:

Displacer beast (useful to use as a mage blink, rogue vanish, or both depending on situation)

Typhoon (If you've ever seen this ability by a boomy in any sort of pinch... nuff said)

Wild Charge (aka a reverse priests' leap of faith +heal in caster & a rush in feral forms). Giving player new unique layer of mobility/utility in one. Only as useful as the creativity of said feral. (or screw it and….. treants?! :D)

Ursol’s Vortex (aka death knights' death grip for all surrounding players). Endless offensive/defensive or disorientation utility here.

And... *imperial march music*

Disentanglement (powershift is back & a heal major heal every 30 seconds)

At points...we've had supreme mobility & others unique pvp utilities. Now we head into a new era of pvp control, which translates to a combination of the two & then some. Hard to say how this will transmute into arena (mostlikely still average via lack of burst in bear or defense in cat spec :P). However it'll be damn fun to pvp everywhere else!

Just wanted to say thanks blizzard

These chances, depending on creative useages, give ferals a head start as the most dynamic pvp class in this coming expansion
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90 Night Elf Druid
9355
Those are the talents for all druids no matter the spec that is chosen and are not specific to feral.

The problem is if you have to chose between cat or bear but not both you are losing a TON of flexibility right off the bat that the other talents don't really compensate for.

In PvP for instance feral cat would lose a lot of survivability by not being able to go bear and pop Frenzied Regeneration + enrage. As well as bear charge and bash for CC.

Brutal impact (reduced cooldown on skull bash/interupt) is really meant as a tank ability but it carries over well to a PvP cat as well.

I sometimes DPS in 5 mans with the same spec I use for tanking 5 mans and for PvP right now. I don't even use a different set of gear for tanking or DPS. I can't min/max with my setup but I'm having a ton of fun with it and it looks like it will be going away in MoP if they move to 4 specs.

For people that min/max as a single PvE role in MoP the change will probably be good but for people like me who hybrid PvE or people that feral PvP the fun is probably going away.
Edited by Darthid on 10/28/2011 12:23 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
0

10/28/2011 12:20 PMPosted by Darthid
For people that min/max as a single PvE role in MoP the change will probably be good but for people like me who hybrid PvE or people that feral PvP the fun is probably going away.


hybird?

Much like bisexuality, to get anywhere you eventually have to pick a team. Plz come back when you've done so.

Also most of what you're referring to fairly insignifcant in the big pvp picture. Sorry bud

Sidenote: It will definitely be a fun challenge to compensate for the weaknesses of being main focus cat or main focus bear. However nothing like what most of the other classes are facing with talent changes in MoP. Especially sprintadins....... see what I did there? :)
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90 Tauren Druid
6245
Ferals will never be as good as a rogue in PvP no matter how much they try to make them exactly like one by removing the ability to be effective in bear. I'd be playing a rogue if I just wanted to sit in cat form all day long...hell they even have better healing these days.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
10/28/2011 03:00 PMPosted by Sevoac
Ferals will never be as good as a rogue in PvP no matter how much they try to make them exactly like one by removing the ability to be effective in bear. I'd be playing a rogue if I just wanted to sit in cat form all day long...hell they even have better healing these days.


Any feral that's afraid of a rogue IS lazy & sits in cat form, or doesn't understand bear-utility. Ferals are designed to at the very least survive an encounter with even the most talented of rogues.

Rogues have been average since day 1 of cata. They are going to see many needed option changes in MoP though... hard to say much else at this point
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85 Tauren Druid
8475
I am very excited to see the new talents and feral design. Having bear and cat linked with talents always caused problems in pvp and I think was a big reason why they were so slow to bring feral damage up to par with other melee.

I also have to say it is about time that we will be able to cast more than faerie fire in feral forms now!

Can't wait to see how it works in beta and when MOP goes live.
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52 Tauren Druid
490
Wait, WAIT!... are you saying that rogues are average now?
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100 Night Elf Druid
7665
I was at Blizzcon. I watched the new talents presented on stage by GC and Chilton and I was not impressed. I got the distinct impression that the development team does not like the hybrid nature of feral druids and are correcting the problem once and for all in the new xpac. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it is all due to PVP, just like every other rollercoaster nerf/buff/nerf we've experienced this xpac. Joy.

I'll reserve final judgement for when MoP hits retail, but it looks like the fun of being a hybrid feral is about to be deleted from the game.
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100 Tauren Druid
20515
./shrug

You can say displacer beast is great... but try shredding a moving target without a 30% speed increase.
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85 Night Elf Druid
5010
Sure we're all a little bummed about losing some survivability with the tank spec separation, but none of us know exactly how much we're losing.

I for one love some of the utility were going to get. I cant wait to try it out

The're giving us back our mobility! shifting out of roots! (and a freakin vanish!) Lets wait and see what happens.
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90 Worgen Druid
10360
I usually dont come on the forums to post , but MoP changes are outright lame.
im not a rogue or a warrior..if i wanted to be one I would have rolled one .
not having survivabilty in the next expac is goin to destroy us as ferals. not only is Fren. regen being taken away but survival instints and thick hide, not to mention savage defense, now i dont know how the rest of you pvp , but having those defensive capabilities allows us to strategize in a fight. without being demolished, you take that away and were done. cat stun locks pales in comparison to rogues..and we have to pop out and heal , with no intellect on gear..how do you think we will fair? our heals burn through too much mana.

The thing about shifting out of roots bugs me a bit too, that was a staple druid mechanic before it was ripped away, and now they offer that as a talent? , first off blizzard should have never taken that away .
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I am very concerned about how they're going to split up cat and bear, and the effect it will hae on each spec. That said, i do look forward to trying out the new talents... there's just 2 things that bug me.

first, is the fact that feline swiftness isn't a spec ability. Having to choose between our movement speed and a vanish isn't a 'fun' choice- especially considering how all other melee classes have many ways to either close the gap, speed up, or slow opponents. It just seems like feline swiftness should be something baseline for cats, and they should add in an on-use style talent like the other two for this tier.

and second, our level 90 talents just seem really lackluster compared to other classes, not to mention, none of these talents offer anything for bear, because shifting while tanking is idiotic.

Heart of the Wild- an "oh crap, i need to do something i'm not specced for" button. It would be pretty cool if there was still no limit on the # of battle rezzes, but now that there is, chances are if we need to use HotW, we're probably already screwed. I doubt that tanking with this up will be a wise idea. Even with the extra armor, you still have no crit immunity, savage defense, etc... And as far as healing goes, every time i can think of that i'd want to use this, it's usually a burn phase: meaning, you don't want to lose DPS for extra heals, you want whatever you're fighting to hurry up and die. It just seems far too situational for a 90 pt talent, especially compared to just about every other class.

Master Shapeshifter- Ferals may not have that complicated of a rotation right now, but this talent just seems ridiculous. it basically requires that a cat shift out at 5 combo points, spam moonfire 3 times, then shift back and use rip. maybe it's, supposed to give ferals something to do when they're out of melee range, and provide a buff for when they get back in... but SP and AP buffs? hell, for this thing to even be worth it, you'd probably have to buff the actual damage by 30%, not SP and AP- and even then, i'm still not sure if it would be a DPS increase over staying in catform and feral-charging back in. It just seems far too complicated.

Disentanglement- if talent trees stay exactly as they are, (god forbid), then this is the talent i'm getting. A heal on a shift, plus a root break. Fantastic idea: but why is this here? going back to my first point, this seems to make the most sense in the level 15 talents in place of feline switfness. let's look at the other two again: displacer beast- a blink/vanish (mobility/survivability) tireless pursuit- a sprint/snare break (mobility/mobility) and disentanglement- snare break/heal (mobility/survivability). Tireless Pursuit looks a bit weak in comparrison, but if blizz gave it the same treatment as rogues' Burst of Speed talent and rolled in a root immunity, i'd say all three would be pretty evenly matched: passive snare breaks -vs- vanish CD -vs- snare break/immunity CD.


TL;DR- Blizz needs to make feline swiftness a baseline kitty ability, move disentanglement to the first tier of talents, and completely redo the level 90 talents to be useful for the druid's selected spec, TANKS INCLUDED.

if you agree, uprate my post too. I think i've illustrated some very important points and would like for this to be seen. :p

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90 Night Elf Druid
9355
The title of your post is "MoP: Exceptionally dynamic feral pvp" but you say:

Any feral that's afraid of a rogue IS lazy & sits in cat form, or doesn't understand bear-utility. Ferals are designed to at the very least survive an encounter with even the most talented of rogues.


I think anyone who knows feral knows that the combination of cat/bear makes it incredibly useful and losing half those would be a HUGE nerf to PvP.

The game isn't intended to be balanced around PvP. The decision to split them is because of bear tanks were too useful as off tanks in PvE because they could do competent damage as cat compared to other tanks so it is a PvE nerf.

Cat would need significant PvP buffs to make cat alone as useful as cat/bear in cata and face it, that just isn't going to happen so why would you be excited about feral PvP in MoP?

Chips. Recent Activity:
Obtained Sonic Booster. 6/8/2011
Date of this post: 10/28/11

So it looks like you have not used your druid in almost 5 months meaning it is probably not your main which explains your position.

Some people (min/maxers) are excited for feral PvE in MoP but for PvP almost nobody sane sees it as anything but a significant nerf. There will be a few situationally useful talents added in MoP, but not necessarily more so than other classes to bridge the gap.


Even as far as PvE goes my prot pally has a zillion CD's but I like tanking with bear in general and healers don't mind healing them.

Is the bear getting such off the charts mitigation in MoP that it will be the only choice for tanking progression content? No. Avengers shield to make caster trash pulls and CC LOL easy? nope.

You would have to give cat the rest of a rogues abilityies (shy of maybe lockboxes) and bear the rest of a prot pallys abilities but then what's the point?
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85 Troll Druid
0
Couldnt agree more Darthid. If anything MoP is an excellent reason to take a break from this game since it wont be fun without competent Feral PvP. Jumping to conclusions some people would say, but the fact is theyre splitting up cat/bear. That does it for me. I'm going to enjoy Cata while it lasts.
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85 Tauren Druid
7585
If they continue forward with this "4 spec" bull!@#$, I'm out.
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35 Human Paladin
210
Any feral that's afraid of a rogue IS lazy & sits in cat form, or doesn't understand bear-utility. Ferals are designed to at the very least survive an encounter with even the most talented of rogues.

Rogues have been average since day 1 of cata. They are going to see many needed option changes in MoP though... hard to say much else at this point


Pretty sure rogues and ferals have been top melee all of cata, with rogues in quite a few high end arena teams.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
./shrug You can say displacer beast is great... but try shredding a moving target without a 30% speed increase.


I didn't say it was end all, however it definitely stands a chance vs the base run increase. Will be a viable offspec (if not main). Lazy pvp ferals depend on running after something for the kill. I see that as an emergency tactic only. If you're a legit pvp feral atm rather than casual, you'll split half your focus on pvp bear. Which requires a much heavier setup and enemy awareness to get the kill (aka kittie speed helps 30-50% of the time).

Sure we're all a little bummed about losing some survivability with the tank spec separation, but none of us know exactly how much we're losing. I for one love some of the utility were going to get. I cant wait to try it outThe're giving us back our mobility! shifting out of roots! (and a freakin vanish!) Lets wait and see what happens.


Good to see someone with an open mind. Whoop whooop!

10/30/2011 11:34 AMPosted by Grimmlok
not having survivabilty in the next expac is goin to destroy us as ferals. not only is Fren. regen being taken away but survival instints and thick hide, not to mention savage defense, now i dont know how the rest of you pvp , but having those defensive capabilities allows us to strategize in a fight. without being demolished, you take that away and were done. cat stun locks pales in comparison to rogues..and we have to pop out and heal , with no intellect on gear..how do you think we will fair? our heals burn through too much mana.


Oh god, where do I start? Oh I know... QQQQQQQQQQQQQ :P

First off feral survivability? I assume you're talking about cat (you'd have to be) and cats have NEVER really had it. If you're popping survival instincts in cat you're A. wasting it bc of nubness B. using it in a suicide attempt to get the last 1000 health down on some enemy/flag carrier...neither are particularly worthwhile

Also I HOPE they take away frenzied regenation because if we had that aswell as shift heals, or that utility jump/heal and (the list goes on) we'd be pallies with razor sharp kitten paws & stealth O.o

Yes cats will have to learn to ACTUALLY be a rogue and use the utility supplied. Which most never have. Just pretend a blizzard employee dies everytime a feral allows him/herself to be attacked in pvp

har har, did you REALLY say kittie stunlock is pale in comparison? One of the biggest secrets about feral cat is their awesome stun capabilities. I've played a pvp rogue since just after beta; unless you have every ability timed down to a science there is not a great deal of room for mistakes. Cats have many "oops" utility skills without blowing a CD (like rogue). Plus compare Kidney shot to maim, the latter is 100% better, mainly from quicker coold rate. As is Cheapshot vs. pounce. Timed right and used together as an opener, you can get a 8+ second opener. I used to frequently do this or apply a bleed then switch instantly to bear. Then start applying separate dps setup from a different form. Both are peerless openers.

Did you really say "pop out to heal"? You ungreatful drood! We actually can heal. And do so in a variety of ways to ourselves & others. Also intellect? Have you not read +agility = +intellect? They did nerf that down quite a bit, but if you're a knowledgeable feral you'd stack agil over every other possible option & have a worthwhile return when healing.

If those heals STILL arn't doing you justice, that means once again, blizzard employees are dying because you're stagnantly in cat allowing a beat down :/


10/30/2011 03:03 PMPosted by Satthys
Blizz needs to make feline swiftness a baseline kitty ability, move disentanglement to the first tier of talents, and completely redo the level 90 talents to be useful for the druid's selected spec, TANKS INCLUDED.


Doesn't sound to well thought out. But thx for input.

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90 Night Elf Druid
0
11/01/2011 02:43 PMPosted by Darthid
The game isn't intended to be balanced around PvP.


Yet somehow it's has the most balanced mmo pvp system. Resulting from an 11 mil member community and tons of blizzard monies from such. Did you know they actually have a net LOSS in value from blizcon every year? They do it for us, just like they're working round the clock right now for you. My interest in PvE died in vanilla and I have hardly noticed a loss in "fun". They keep a strong PvP base coming back again & again...wonder how?.... :)

I don't think PvP is balanced in ANY system. But we come close here. Thanks to QQ'ers like you.


11/01/2011 02:43 PMPosted by Darthid
Cat would need significant PvP buffs to make cat alone as useful as cat/bear in cata and face it, that just isn't going to happen so why would you be excited about feral PvP in MoP?


Someone lives their life glass half full

Chips. Recent Activity:Obtained Sonic Booster. 6/8/2011Date of this post: 10/28/11 So it looks like you have not used your druid in almost 5 months meaning it is probably not your main which explains your position.


Cute angsty strategy, attack the person rather than the problem at hand

Some people (min/maxers) are excited for feral PvE in MoP.


You = PvE

11/01/2011 02:43 PMPosted by Darthid
for PvP almost nobody sane sees it as anything but a significant nerf.


I beg to differ: refer above (Woofhoof & Skyreaver) :D

11/01/2011 03:23 PMPosted by Dudemanchu
Couldnt agree more Darthid. If anything MoP is an excellent reason to take a break from this game since it wont be fun without competent Feral PvP. Jumping to conclusions some people would say, but the fact is theyre splitting up cat/bear. That does it for me. I'm going to enjoy Cata while it lasts.


someone to help Darthid drink that half-empty glass
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85 Night Elf Druid
2225
hybird?

Much like bisexuality, to get anywhere you eventually have to pick a team. Plz come back when you've done so.

Also most of what you're referring to fairly insignifcant in the big pvp picture. Sorry bud

Sidenote: It will definitely be a fun challenge to compensate for the weaknesses of being main focus cat or main focus bear. However nothing like what most of the other classes are facing with talent changes in MoP. Especially sprintadins....... see what I did there? :)


You're argument is fundamentally flawed, sure you pick a partner for the time you're together but you never stop being bi-sexual.... Also you clearly don't understand feral as a spec or druid as a class. The whole appeal and success of druid pvp is the shifting and being able to go about a bunch of things in different ways, druid play can be very unique and creative, meaning great players are really really rewarded. But loosing out on bear form if it where to happen is the single greatest pvp nerf to ever happen to druids. The defence it offers, plus the utility like bear charge cd, the different mechanic to it's charge, bash etc... etc... plus the dps you're able to put out when you need to remain defensive.... Loosing bear will hurt druid pvp in two very important ways, it basically takes everything that the druid spec is bases around, the whole appeal and throws it away.



11/02/2011 10:08 PMPosted by Chips
I didn't say it was end all, however it definitely stands a chance vs the base run increase. Will be a viable offspec (if not main). Lazy pvp ferals depend on running after something for the kill. I see that as an emergency tactic only. If you're a legit pvp feral atm rather than casual, you'll split half your focus on pvp bear. Which requires a much heavier setup and enemy awareness to get the kill (aka kittie speed helps 30-50% of the time).
If you're saying feral movement speed is only useful for the bad feral you're a fool, and you understand feral about as much as most casual druid players which is not to be faulted, you just need to lear. But since feral lacks the burst capacity of say a rogue, plus the ability to stun lock like that etc... feral movement speed becomes very, very important for kiting mele opponents since they all have better toe to toe dps, but being able to bleed and kite/los casters rather than be stuck cc'd in the open to sponge up the dmg.

So if this is indeed the case and ferals don't get a base movement speed increase, PLUS, loose out on bear form for defensive moments in the fight, this choice is aggravating and worrying at best! Given, they had to do something since we get to shift out of roots now, so we'll see how they strike a balance here. Honestly tho, this is more intended to be a resto druid buff rather than a feral nerf. If resto gets this it's a BIG buff, pvp resto will be a little bit better :).



11/02/2011 10:08 PMPosted by Chips
har har, did you REALLY say kittie stunlock is pale in comparison? One of the biggest secrets about feral cat is their awesome stun capabilities. I've played a pvp rogue since just after beta; unless you have every ability timed down to a science there is not a great deal of room for mistakes.
Yes, this is a fact, rogues have better stun lock than druids. Druids have movement speed plus instant clones or roots. Even if it just came down to maim or kidney rogue energy regen and combo point generation is faster than a ferals.
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85 Night Elf Druid
2225
Yet somehow it's has the most balanced mmo pvp system. Resulting from an 11 mil member community and tons of blizzard monies from such. Did you know they actually have a net LOSS in value from blizcon every year? They do it for us, just like they're working round the clock right now for you. My interest in PvE died in vanilla and I have hardly noticed a loss in "fun". They keep a strong PvP base coming back again & again...wonder how?.... :)
It's been around the longest and offers tones of other stuff that makes it so appealing, not to mention all the publicity surrounding it. Even if they did have the most balanced system, from some one in their position no one should expect anything less. BTW it doesn't have one of the most balanced, even tournament commentators make fun of that fact and WoW was taken off the e-sport circuit. This was said at the end of a tournament by a commentator in which basically every team that did well had a shaman healer; "And the unofficial MVP of this tournament goes to the Spirit Link Totem..."

Let's not also forget doing things like Blizzcon at a loss is a popular business strategy and in the end you can't forget to factor in all the major financial gain things like this are going to bring it, it's one of those things impossible to show on paper. Like two companies merging, one boss may take the other and their senior staff out to dinner or offer an appropriate gift. There was a story a while back about some one important who was talking to Kim Jong Il from North Korea a while back, he's a crazy basketball and Michael Jordan fan, like a CRAZY fan! So the brought him an auttographed ball. Things went well.
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