Dailies is just bad design.

Community Manager
11/06/2011 11:19 PMPosted by Manpuku
This is just a bad design. A game should not ask for daily commitment to enjoy what it has to offer.


They ask nothing - they merely reward a choice.

We typically provide some boundaries because, as you've illustrated, something that we allow, is something that can all too easily seem mandatory. That's not what we want, but we do want to provide a reason to come into the game, be in the world, and see what's happening on a frequent basis. It's nice to also be able to offer some rewards for doing that. Naturally, dailies shouldn't be the only way to accrue rewards, and they aren't. Dailies were, in part, a response to a World of Warcraft where there wasn't a lot of incentive to come play on non-raid days, since for many players, the only way to progress became dungeon runs and, for a few, raiding. We also wanted to provide another means of acquiring currency aside from professions, and new ways to acquire reputation with important factions too. They're designed to hit a lot of notes (I'm probably missing some), and I think that they're pretty successful. You don't have to hit your cap, (indeed, one of our fears about a raised daily cap is that players might feel compelled to hit the new, higher cap) but you can if you want to put in the time. Naturally, we also want to continue to add other means of progression to the end-game, and we're looking for ways to do so in a fun and compelling way.

I get concerned when I see players throwing out words like 'bad design'. Perhaps an individual dislikes a design choice, and that's fine. We do our best, but World of Warcraft can't be all things to all people, all the time. That said, making a value judgment about whether the design is 'bad' or not is not only un-constructive, but in the vast majority of the cases I've seen, such an assessment reveals that the design was not well understood to begin with.

These forums represent an opportunity to have a dialogue about the game. I think that choosing words that have context and meaning, and offering alternative solutions, makes for feedback which is more readily useful.
Edited by Daxxarri on 11/7/2011 1:36 PM PST
85 Tauren Druid
6155
11/07/2011 01:36 PMPosted by Daxxarri
I get concerned when I see players throwing out words like 'bad design'. Perhaps an individual dislikes a design choice, and that's fine. We do our best, but World of Warcraft can't be all things to all people, all the time. That said, making a value judgment about whether the design is 'bad' or not is not only un-constructive, but in the vast majority of the cases I've seen, such an assessment reveals that the design was not well understood to begin with.


/roasted. Nice one Daxx.
85 Tauren Druid
10670
I think there's something to be said for the change made to dungeons, that we could choose to earn our weekly quota in one long session or several smaller sessions throughout the week. It still caps our total earnings, so we don't feel compelled to run them all day every day, but it lets us play to our schedule rather than have us try to force in a session every day or fall behind.

So, why not apply that same philosophy to daily quests (or rather the specific groups of daily quests that are done to unlock rewards, such as the Molten Front dailies)? Why not go with a weekly design so that we could run a few every day to hit the cap or just log a marathon session on a weekend if we so choose? That way you're not extending the amount of time we could feel is "mandatory" but you are increasing the flexibility in when we want to play.
90 Night Elf Mage
5050
They need to do to dailie quests the same thing they did to dungeon rewards. Make it so you can do any dailie multiple times a day up to seven times in a week.

I remember doing the MF dailies on one of my characters. It was absolute hell. I started off doing them just to see what they were like and get a little extra gold but it reached a point were I just had to keep going and couldn't stop until I'd got the mount because otherwise all the work I'd done before would feel like it was for nothing. If I missed a single day it made me feel terrible because that was just one more day I'd have to quest to get the rewards. I'd log into the game for 30 minutes, do the quests and then log off. It wasn't fun at all. It felt like a job.

When I was finished with them it was such a huge relief. It was sort of like that joke about the idiot who hits his head against a wall because it feels so good when he stops. In this case I was the idiot and the wall was MF dailies.

It was probably the worst time I'd ever had with the game. I seriously hope Blizzard never implements anything like it ever again unless they change the way dailies work. If I had had the option to log into the game, spend a couple hours doing the MF dailies multiple times and then had the rest of the week free to do other things in the game it would have made the grind feel a lot better, though it would still have felt like a grind.

Also more variety with the quests and a better sense of progression would have been nice. Unlocking a new vendor or quest giver and a new phase of the MF every few days instead of once a week would have been great.
I dislike dailies with a passion, but I do them anyway for the rewards, tokens, etc. The second I've got what is wanted (like tank gear from the MF dailies) or needed (jewelcrafting tokens? Ugh.), I never touch them again.

I don't have a different solution to regulate rewards, though. I just grit my teeth and tough them out. Of all the things in the game, I dread doing dailies the most.
Community Manager
/roasted. Nice one Daxx.


The World of Warcraft forum community seems prone to 'fad' phrases, regrettably. 'Bad design' is, perhaps, my least favorite. It's right up there with 'lazy'.
85 Worgen Hunter
8015
I hardly ever do dailies. The last time I really fully committed was in Wraith for the Tournament.

I have better things to do with my time than busy work. Like the Blue said.

It's a choice.

You could farm.

You could do dungeons.

You could collect companions.

You could raid.

You could go do old raids before you need 20 lvl 90's to run something from 2005.

You could RP in the tram.

You could PVP.

We can do this all day.

85 Human Warrior
1380
I hardly ever do dailies. The last time I really fully committed was in Wraith for the Tournament.

I have better things to do with my time than busy work. Like the Blue said.

It's a choice.

You could farm.

You could do dungeons.

You could collect companions.

You could raid.

You could go do old raids before you need 20 lvl 90's to run something from 2005.

You could RP in the tram.

You could PVP.

We can do this all day.


I could do all of those things, but I choose to do none of them. I level new alts instead :P
85 Worgen Hunter
8015
11/07/2011 02:00 PMPosted by Baneus
I could do all of those things, but I choose to do none of them. I level new alts instead :P


Dang I forgot that one.

That's pretty much what I do too.
Community Manager
11/07/2011 01:58 PMPosted by Rafiq
what is a proper description for rehashed content?


A response to many, many requests over the years from the community to revisit old dungeons and characters?
I enjoy dailies just fine. In fact, the Molten Front was one of the best things to come out of Cataclysm, IMO. I do think they may have made the requirements to unlock everything a bit steep, and it would have been nice if the rewards were more evenly portioned out over the course of the experience, but on the whole, the quests were damn fun, and I enjoyed it.

For those of you who don't like dailies, there's a simple solution: don't do them. This is a game, and no one is forcing you to do anything. I hate PvP, so I don't do it. Same thing.

11/07/2011 02:02 PMPosted by Daxxarri
what is a proper description for rehashed content?


A response to many, many requests over the years from the community to revisit old dungeons and characters?


Buuuuurn.
Edited by Maigraith on 11/7/2011 2:04 PM PST
45 Human Warlock
4855
11/07/2011 01:53 PMPosted by Daxxarri
The World of Warcraft forum community seems prone to 'fad' phrases, regrettably. 'Bad design' is, perhaps, my least favorite. It's right up there with 'lazy'.


You are not gonna like me, but meh.

Molten Front dailies were very well designed in phases. But artificial limitations put in to protect raiders was just absurd. Nobody should be forced to go through repetition for 30 days to experience full storyline and rewards. The limitation for reward is fine, but limitation for story line is not and that IS bad design. Because it discourages players by pigeon holing them into repetition for the continuation of storyline. There was so much potential with Druid of Flames and they weren't implemented correctly.

Food for your thought: Why do you think players use those words? I know what you are going to say and I will say it no thats not why.
85 Night Elf Priest
5675
I would argue it's good design. You might argue it's bad creative, or bad development, but not design.

The design of dailies (my guess) is giving players alternate ways to advance their characters.

100 Tauren Druid
20770
11/07/2011 01:53 PMPosted by Daxxarri
The World of Warcraft forum community seems prone to 'fad' phrases, regrettably. 'Bad design' is, perhaps, my least favorite. It's right up there with 'lazy'.


Sadly they will always be present.

Only issue I have with the dailies is that I have no real reason to do them anymore... As I was geared from the previous raid, the actual items from the vendors had no real value to me, which is fine... they were designed as something to catch up to the firelands with.

It's just that there's nothing on the vendors to reward people going back over and over again to farm the tokens. Whilst the commendations were nice, it's less hassle for players just to stick a tabard on and grind dungeons.. and the cache is pointless if you already have the rare pet.

So more fluff items would be nice that are token based, in the next daily area... things that take time to work towards maybe. As a reason to keep people coming to the daily zone.
100 Night Elf Druid
14075
11/07/2011 01:58 PMPosted by Rafiq
what is a proper description for rehashed content?

Reimagined

Redesigned

Reintroduced

Refreshed

Reinvigorated

Rethought

Depends on which reemerging content you're referring to.
85 Night Elf Priest
9090
There is a place in the game for dailies. It is just that it seems the developers have gone too far with them, tried to substitute them in for real content too much, and have just used them as the easy quick way to get a "content" patch out.

What at least I would far rather see resources spent on would be more instances, more raids, more epic/legendary quests (especially some accessable without 24 other people being necessary).
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