Mastery raid buff

85 Human Paladin
11105
I think the best route to go is to simply remove Expertise as a stat and roll everything into Hit and adjust the values accordingly. Expertise is such an un-interesting stat that doesn't really make sense when paired with another stats called Hit. As it is now for melee DPS (the ones who require Expertise), they basically reach their caps for Hit and Hit II then focus on something else. Why not just roll it all in to one value that makes sense?

Assuming Blizzard could make Hit rating affect each type of "miss" differently then they could presumably remove the massive requirement to push boss parries off the table by simply hitting the Hit cap, which could be adjusted to something more reasonable (7-10%).


Actually, if they chose to do this, they'd probably just bump melee miss rate against bosses to 17% and have it all play from the one stat.

I'm not sure that's what you want them to do.


Having it all play from one stat is what I had in mind, but 17% is too high. Glyphs could help alleviate that somewhat I suppose, or maybe reduce the rating required per percentage point of Hit. Not sure what Blizzard can or cannot do on the technical end.
85 Tauren Warrior
8120
having 2 stats is superior to one stat.

just ask warlocks and mages.
85 Orc Warrior
3500
I don't Know about this, i mean the idea of Tanks wanting hit and expertise, i mean i don't mind, it is quite annoying when i miss or get parried or dodged, but it seems a bit unrealistic too especially with how much expertise you need to cap for parry, If hit and expertise effects your mitigation or whatever, then what will become of dodge and parry stats? I could see it now tho, its going to go from stacking mastery, to stacking hit and Expertise.

Now I'm sure i do not speak for everyone, but one of the reasons i love being a tank is because i Really don't need Hit or expertise, To me the stats were just thrown into the game to keep people from getting too high in one area, I have played DPS before and i even have a Arms off spec and that was one thing that truly annoyed me, having to reforge practically every piece of gear i had just so i could land a hit on the target.

Hit and expertise are not fun stats at ALL, they do not do anything for your character, they don't make him stronger, they don't make him have higher hits, all they do is just make it so your character doesn't look like a fumbling idiot when swinging his or her giant sword or spell around.

There should be a different way to put hit and expertise into the game, For tanks anyway, Because i really don't want to have to Reforge every piece of tank gear i get into Hit or expertise, two stats that just make me hold my sword better instead of making me dodge or parry or block more, or have harder hits or more crits or something.
90 Human Warrior
10740
11/09/2011 04:28 PMPosted by Hooves
Was not a fan of having to Thunderclap single-target anyway, and I'm sure DK tanks everywhere breathed a collective sigh of relief.


Having to keep up debuffs is one of the reasons I enjoy Warrior tanking the most.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8270
11/11/2011 04:45 AMPosted by Feanorion
very little WotLK.


Alot of this has to do with difficulty. WotLK was only one expansion ago. Its not quite as easy to solo yet.

I know there are several piece from ulduar id like to get but id like at least 5 or so peeps with me.

I love the ulduar shields i have now, several of my friends are dong CoS runs for that shield and i soloed heroic PoS for this sword (i used to have one) for this set.

That said i agree with you that the looks of the gear from TBC/Vanilla were alot better. I blame all the peeps who cried about clown suits and never bothered to try and match sets =P
90 Night Elf Warrior
7845
/DRINK
I see the nerf bat coming once again, /drink, why nerf encounters then state players are ...

Q: "Currently block is a superior mastery to Blood Shield and Savage Defense. Are there any plans to bring the masteries closer together?"


A: Yes, in 5.0. Block capping and mastery in general is currently too good for warriors and paladins. We think tank balance is close enough in 4.3 that dramatic overhauls could make matters worse. In 5.0 we will change things.[/quote]

Could? Make matters worse? LOL!
Opposite of nerf plz. Duh.
Fix the classes that are F'd up leave the rest alone.
Give a regular shield to the dk's and Bears...ya think?
Edited by Tanksinator on 11/11/2011 5:12 AM PST
90 Troll Druid
8850
11/10/2011 12:16 PMPosted by Daxxarri
In 5.0, tanks will care about hit and expertise, because those will become survival stats: if your hits don’t connect, you won’t have the resources needed for some of your defensive abilities (the less critical ones like Shield Block, but not Shield Wall).


Honestly, this sounds terrible. And is a complete reversal from what you did in 4.0.

What is truly wrong about us focusing on defensive stats? Why do you feel like making tanks focus on both defensive and offensive stats, therefore making it inherently more complex to gear for them than it is to gear for dps?

Don't you want more people to be tanking? I was turned off of my DK for the very reason of "active mitigation," although it wasn't called that at the time. By your own admission DK tanking was harder than the other tanks in recent months. Why is your solution to make other tanks harder as well, rather than fixing DKs?
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
They're making hit/exp desirability a resource game, not a threat game (though in effect it's the same thing; no resources --> no threat).

I wonder if we'll see DK's gain double RP from rune-based strikes that crit?

I dont like expertise myself. I think it's one of the barriers to homogenizing gear - maybe that's a bridge too far in the homogenization department though. I mean, look at it... melee dps care about half of it, hunters dont care at all, nor do casters. It's like this additional ratings tax on JUST melee classes, and takes the greatest toll from tanks because they have no choice but to attack from the front.

What I think might be interesting is if tanks gain a specialization passive that grants a set amount of expertise, and/or reduces the chance for opponents to parry by around 8%. DK's already have this as part of Veteran of the Third War. With this specialization, melee dps remain penalized for bad positioning (softcapped expertise doesn't eliminate parries, which are at 14%), but tanks - who have this new passive - can hardcap parry and dodge with 6.5% worth of expertise.
Edited by Charsi on 11/11/2011 6:06 AM PST
90 Troll Warrior
16215
11/11/2011 05:51 AMPosted by Fishnchips
What is truly wrong about us focusing on defensive stats? Why do you feel like making tanks focus on both defensive and offensive stats, therefore making it inherently more complex to gear for them than it is to gear for dps?

If hit and expertise, they are survival stats. And we will have just as many stats to balance as a melee dps (5).

11/11/2011 04:45 AMPosted by Feanorion
Not purely--- just mostly. And I hold up as evidence: Transmogrification. The content people are running to get gear that they want to be seen in. Mostly TBC, some Vanilla, very little WotLK. At least on my server, which is an RP server, and the appearance of gear is probably slightly more important than on a PvP or a more raid-focused server.

Wrath is still recent history, and isn't affected nearly by the same degree of nostalgia. Also, fewer people had access to the cool looking gear in Vanilla/BC compared to Wrath, where people getting to if not downing the last major boss in the expansion (Halion doesn't count!) was a lot more common. There's a host of reasons why BC content is being used for more Transmog gear than Wrath is.

11/11/2011 04:45 AMPosted by Feanorion
But the bulk of my rant was how time is being spent. I wish we could run a poll: would you rather have a new expansion focused on re-working mechanics of the game or focused on the quality and amount of new content? THAT was my complete point. Not that gear looked better then, but that the gear looked better and the content was better because there was less time spent on re-working the mechanics of the game from the floor up.

I disagree with this entirely too. Not reworking class mechanics isn't going to dramatically change the quality of the content. There's different leads and teams for each part of the game, and all they likely share is maybe an art guy and a low level code monkey or two. There's really no reason to believe that adding Holy Power cost us another dungeon, or anything silly like that.
Edited by Sildas on 11/11/2011 6:10 AM PST
90 Troll Druid
8850
What is truly wrong about us focusing on defensive stats? Why do you feel like making tanks focus on both defensive and offensive stats, therefore making it inherently more complex to gear for them than it is to gear for dps?

If hit and expertise, they are survival stats. And we will have just as many stats to balance as a melee dps (5).


Tanks:

Hit
Expertise
Dodge
Parry
Mastery
Crit (for bears)
Haste (perhaps)

Melee dps:

Hit
Expertise
Mastery
Crit
Haste

That's 6 with a possible 7 for tanks, and 5 for melee dps.

EDIT: The interesting thing is if you remove hit then we're exactly even... (ignoring haste on tanks, because I'm not sure if that's going to happen).
Edited by Fishnchips on 11/11/2011 6:08 AM PST
90 Troll Druid
8850
11/11/2011 06:05 AMPosted by Feanorion


Honestly, this sounds terrible. And is a complete reversal from what you did in 4.0.

What is truly wrong about us focusing on defensive stats? Why do you feel like making tanks focus on both defensive and offensive stats, therefore making it inherently more complex to gear for them than it is to gear for dps?

Don't you want more people to be tanking? I was turned off of my DK for the very reason of "active mitigation," although it wasn't called that at the time. By your own admission DK tanking was harder than the other tanks in recent months. Why is your solution to make other tanks harder as well, rather than fixing DKs?


Harder SHOULD equal more challenging. The problem with DK design was not that it was harder, but that its abilities were not designed to be synergistic. Many DK mechanics worked directly against each other, rather than with each other.


And how do you define more challenging?

I personally find boss mechanics challenging enough during raid encounters. Tanks already have more to worry about than most dpsers, why are they giving us even more to worry about on top of that?
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
11/11/2011 06:05 AMPosted by Fishnchips
That's 6 with a possible 7 for tanks, and 5 for melee dps.


I believe the intent is for Crit and Haste to matter to tanks as well.

- Haste will accelerate rage generation (faster autoattacks, possibly shorter cooldown on rage generating special ala Crusader Strike??)

- Crits may/will provide double rage

I dont see how crit would be interesting to Paladins or DK's thus far.

Anyway, if they did, would love to see Dodge and Parry go away. As i've said many times before.
Edited by Charsi on 11/11/2011 6:08 AM PST
90 Troll Druid
8850
11/11/2011 06:08 AMPosted by Charsi
That's 6 with a possible 7 for tanks, and 5 for melee dps.


I believe the intent is for Crit and Haste to matter to tanks as well.

- Haste will accelerate rage generation (faster autoattacks, possibly shorter cooldown on rage generating special ala Crusader Strike??)

- Crits may/will provide double rage

I dont see how crit would be interesting to Paladins or DK's thus far.

Anyway, if they did, would love to see Dodge and Parry go away. As i've said many times before.


If that's the case then it's tanks having to worry about balancing 7 stats vs. everyone else's 5.
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]