Mana in MoP

90 Night Elf Druid
7340
Surprised no discussion was going on about this.


Q: How do you plan on balancing healer mana management in MoP? I for one enjoyed the beginning of Cata when healing was a little more challenging but now Disc and Druids barely have any worries while shamans and Holy priests have a little harder time.


A: We agree. It's a nearly-unavoidable consequence of gear scaling under our current system. Fresh level 85s in mostly quest gear need to have enough mana and regen to be able to set foot in dungeons and sustain a healing rotation for a couple of minutes in the face of reasonable incoming damage. But then a healer in Heroic Firelands gear now has nearly double the stats of a healer fresh out of Uldum questing, and the mana cost of that healer's spells is unchanged, often resulting in a large mana surplus.

Our current plan for Mists is for Intellect to no longer directly increase the size of player mana pools. We intend for our mana-based DPS and Tank classes to be entirely self-reliant regardless of mana pool, so the gameplay impact for those players will be nil. For healers, Spirit will remain as the pure regen stat, and healers after multiple tiers of raid progression will clearly have far more mana at their disposal, but there will be more of an inherent tradeoff between regen and throughput stats. A healer with amazing regen will have amazing regen because of a choice to focus their stats in that direction.


http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/
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Never saw that post. O_o

But interesting nonetheless.
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90 Night Elf Druid
7340
Never saw that post. O_o

But interesting nonetheless.


Yeah, was surprised it wasn't being discussed. Healer Forums have been so slow the past few months.
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90 Night Elf Druid
7340
First impressions:

11/10/2011 12:41 AMPosted by Duird
Our current plan for Mists is for Intellect to no longer directly increase the size of player mana pools.


So what stat is increasing our mana pools? Or are our mana pools going to be base class levels as healers?

11/10/2011 12:41 AMPosted by Duird
For healers, Spirit will remain as the pure regen stat, and healers after multiple tiers of raid progression will clearly have far more mana at their disposal, but there will be more of an inherent tradeoff between regen and throughput stats


You make our gear. It all has spirit and Int on it. We don't get to individualize the stats on that gear to make a huge difference. How are you going to address that? I don't see you putting no spirit and no int on our gear and making us have to choose. Looking at Cata, the stats are already pretty balanced, the only thing we get to decide is to match gem socket bonuses or just jam int into all the slots. I could be wrong on this but I don't see our choices ever being meaningful enough to actually make it feel like we are in control of our mana bar or our numbers. It's just what is handed down to us.

For example in Cata you brought back the "make mana matter". When I hit 85 I just got my dungeon gear, put it on and slapped haste/int, int or spirit/int gems into my gem slots. All my gear had spirit so I didn't reforge that. It all had int and you can't reforge that. When I got most of my 359 gear I just stopped spirit/haste hybrid gems and went all pure int. Even if I gemmed all +spirit pure gems, they wouldn't amount to much of a regen change for me.




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90 Night Elf Druid
7340
In case anyone didn't see this either.


Q: They may or may not count Replenishment in that category of buff. Those buffs are applied to everyone, and are either always-on (like Rampage) or pre-casted with long durations (like Fortitude).
A: We meant that Replenishment would be gone. We think healers benefit enough from the other buffs that they will still feel more powerful in groups, which is one of the main intents behind synergistic raid buffs. Currently, instead of feeling awesome when they get Replenishment, healers feel sad when they don’t get it. We want it to feel like a bonus and since it does not, it may be time for it to go.

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85 Draenei Shaman
10680
Good riddance.
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90 Human Paladin
15640
First impressions:

Our current plan for Mists is for Intellect to no longer directly increase the size of player mana pools.


So what stat is increasing our mana pools? Or are our mana pools going to be base class levels as healers?



As I read the post, my belief is that they're intending to NOT have stats that increase the mana pools. The issue right now (as they discussed in the full text of the response) is that the increasing mana pools have made the spell choice and mana management much less important as people gear up because spell costs don't increase.

If you're casting Flash of Light (or equivalent) immediately after hitting level 85, because you don't have a ton of INT, that 7000 mana is a decent chunk of your pool, maybe 20% or so. Once you gear up fully to FL gear (and it'll be worse in T13), you're looking at 100,000 mana or more. So now that spell intended to be 'ultra-expensive, last-resort" is taking less than 10% of your pool.

Obviously, you'll still go OOM if you do nothing but spam Flash of Light (and yes, there are other reasons to use other spells, such as Holy Light working better with Beacon), but it's the concept here: Because mana costs don't increase as you gear up, mana is becoming much less important with every tier. Cutting out (or at least reducing) increasing mana pools due to gear removes that concern.

I don't know if they'll remove mana pools increasing entirely or just scale it back, but it definitely won't be at the stage it is now, where a progression raider can have literally double the mana pool of a fresh 85.
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85 Orc Shaman
5985
Blizzard:

Stop !@#$ing nerfing us every single freaking expansion, seriously.

I'm so tired of this %^-*, we have already one of the hardest job in the game, stop putting stones in our way.

Not all of us want those stones, and we have enough already.

Dont do this change, you will have even less healers, a lot less healer, its a crap to be constantly nerfed because you want to make our job harder and harder.

DON'T do this.

If this goes by i will quit healing (which i have been doing for years) and probably quit the game altoguether because healing is what i love, but i'm not a freaking masochist who enjoys pain.

Our job is already difficult, so we stoppped having mana problem at the end of the expansion, big deal, DPS stops having hit issues, tanks stops having avoidances issues, we all stop having some issues with gear AND THAT'S FINE, ITS HOW IT SHOULD BE.

Don't do this Blizzard, many of us not only dont want that, but will quit because of that.
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85 Orc Shaman
5985
First impressions:



So what stat is increasing our mana pools? Or are our mana pools going to be base class levels as healers?



As I read the post, my belief is that they're intending to NOT have stats that increase the mana pools. The issue right now (as they discussed in the full text of the response) is that the increasing mana pools have made the spell choice and mana management much less important as people gear up because spell costs don't increase.

If you're casting Flash of Light (or equivalent) immediately after hitting level 85, because you don't have a ton of INT, that 7000 mana is a decent chunk of your pool, maybe 20% or so. Once you gear up fully to FL gear (and it'll be worse in T13), you're looking at 100,000 mana or more. So now that spell intended to be 'ultra-expensive, last-resort" is taking less than 10% of your pool.

Obviously, you'll still go OOM if you do nothing but spam Flash of Light (and yes, there are other reasons to use other spells, such as Holy Light working better with Beacon), but it's the concept here: Because mana costs don't increase as you gear up, mana is becoming much less important with every tier. Cutting out (or at least reducing) increasing mana pools due to gear removes that concern.

I don't know if they'll remove mana pools increasing entirely or just scale it back, but it definitely won't be at the stage it is now, where a progression raider can have literally double the mana pool of a fresh 85.


A full raider having double the mana pool of a fresh 85 is not a bad thing. That's why that raider worked for the gear while the recent 85 has done nothing yet.
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85 Dwarf Shaman
4240
Not sure how to take their response.

As per intellect not affecting mana pool, that one is hard to figure out. Not sure if there will be a base pool and it is what it is for the entire expac. Not sure what other stat, unless a new one was added, would affect a mana pool.

As far as replenishment going away, that will be bad news. Especially for shaman if their mana regen isn't fixed. I know i usually get more mana back from replenishment then i do from my own abilities.

It seems like they kind of don't know what to do. They are throwing bologna at the wall and seeing what sticks. It is almost ineptitude when it comes to balancing regen.

Sometimes it makes me want to switch to a dps class as they just can't seem to get it right. And i have only healed and tanked since i started playing this game.
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85 Orc Shaman
5985
Not sure how to take their response.

As per intellect not affecting mana pool, that one is hard to figure out. Not sure if there will be a base pool and it is what it is for the entire expac. Not sure what other stat, unless a new one was added, would affect a mana pool.

As far as replenishment going away, that will be bad news. Especially for shaman if their mana regen isn't fixed. I know i usually get more mana back from replenishment then i do from my own abilities.

It seems like they kind of don't know what to do. They are throwing bologna at the wall and seeing what sticks. It is almost ineptitude when it comes to balancing regen.

Sometimes it makes me want to switch to a dps class as they just can't seem to get it right. And i have only healed and tanked since i started playing this game.


They said they want to the healer to chooose between mana regen and thoughput, so they are probably making int being a thourghput only stat (even when we cant choose between spirit and int because one is a ssecondary stat and the other a primary).

They dont know what to do with us, but they are constantly making our job harder, even when its already arguably the hardest one.

I am considering going tanking or dps, but i really dont enjoy those roles, i am a healer from the bottom of my heart, but this crap will make me have to choose between the sad choice of going another role or the sad choice of simply stop playing altoguether and go to another game where the devs doesnt disrespect my role in every single expansion excep for wrath.

I dont know which one i am doing, if i can convince my guildies of going to another game like the one coming out soon, then maybe that's the best solution to keep my role and friends, since that wont be possible here without keep feeling bad at how blizzard treats us.

Here is a hint Blizzard: There wasn't much of a healer shortage in Wrath, in cata with the changes many went dps and others leaves and we had a healer shortage. Do this and your healing playerbase will drop down to oblivion.


I dont know if they really want us to leave or if they dont realize how much they are hurting us with changes like this.
Edited by Gromahk on 11/10/2011 4:30 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Priest
3745
11/10/2011 12:41 AMPosted by Duird
and healers after multiple tiers of raid progression will clearly have far more mana at their disposal


That is the part that I dont understand. So what is going to raise our mana pools? Or is this just suggesting that with the possiblity of stacking spirit mana pools become theoretically 'larger' due to more mana gained in a shorter period of time?

This hasnt been answered and its important for understanding the state of healing in 5.0
Edited by Ryokoh on 11/10/2011 4:35 AM PST
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85 Dwarf Shaman
4240
11/10/2011 04:35 AMPosted by Ryokoh
and healers after multiple tiers of raid progression will clearly have far more mana at their disposal


That is the part that I dont understand. So what is going to raise our mana pools? Or is this just suggesting that with the possiblity of stacking spirit mana pools become theoretically 'larger' due to more mana gained in a shorter period of time?

This hasnt been answered and its important for understanding the state of healing in 5.0


Agreed. The statement they made only caused more questions than answers.
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85 Troll Priest
3640
What about caster dps? are they going to have base mana pool too? blizz we need more clarification pls =).
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85 Blood Elf Priest
3745
11/10/2011 12:41 AMPosted by Duird
Our current plan for Mists is for Intellect to no longer directly increase the size of player mana pools.


11/10/2011 12:41 AMPosted by Duird
healers after multiple tiers of raid progression will clearly have far more mana at their disposal


These two quotes together make it very confusing. I hate to get on here and call for blizz to answer, but this is not making any sense.
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85 Troll Priest
3640
Maybe they will not respond this post, they want us to Discuss about this? =P
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85 Blood Elf Priest
3745
Well, from a discussion point, maybe a single lvl 90 mana pool would be ok.

I think if anything it might make balancing mana costs, and values of other stats a little easier. Control's in an experiment almost always do. =)
Edited by Ryokoh on 11/10/2011 5:03 AM PST
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85 Orc Shaman
5985
and healers after multiple tiers of raid progression will clearly have far more mana at their disposal


That is the part that I dont understand. So what is going to raise our mana pools? Or is this just suggesting that with the possiblity of stacking spirit mana pools become theoretically 'larger' due to more mana gained in a shorter period of time?

This hasnt been answered and its important for understanding the state of healing in 5.0


From what they have said, our mana pools wont increase much. We would have to inncrease our mana regen instead, and by doing so heal for less since our mana regen stat doesnt increase otu throughput like int does now.

I wont stand for this, i have tolerated enough from Blizzard. If this goes live, i will NEVER heal again in wow, and i will probably leave.
Edited by Gromahk on 11/10/2011 5:12 AM PST
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85 Orc Shaman
5985


I wont stand for this, i have tolerated enough from Blizzard. If this goes live, i will NEVER heal again in wow, and i will probably leave.

"I don't want to have to actually think about my spells once I have gear."
Ok.


I dont wat to get nerfed every single expansion.

I want to be more powerfull as i get more gear.

I am tired of being the fuse each time they want to change something, while DPS role is basically untouched.

I WANT to have more mana WHEN I HAVE MORE GEAR. I dont want to be squished with how many heals i can use as if i am a fresh leveled toon.

And yes, once i get to the last tier, i should be able to use the spell i actually WANT, i want to be able to CHOOSE how i heal, at least in the last tier of the expansion.

Is that really that much to ask? to be able to choose how i heal in the last tier of the expansion, after several tiers of healing like someone else thought i should heal and having no choice about it?

Funny how dpsers come here to bash when they role was basically be untouched since vanilla.

Go scratch your head while tanks and healers carry you trhough content. I think you missed your place, go to the DPS forums to cry about not having a 50% MS debuff.
Edited by Gromahk on 11/10/2011 5:30 AM PST
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