Raid healing is more stressful now.

90 Dwarf Paladin
13780



No, it isn't just energy or focus with larger numbers.


It is a resource bar (just like rage/energy/focus/runic power). It has its mechanics to regen (in the case of healers, spirit and intellect). Fundamentally, they are not much different.



I gave you an entire response explaining why the difference between mana and other resources was relevant in the context of this issue, and you ignored it completely so you could argue that, no, mana is really the same as runic power. Whatever man. It's different because the way increasing our mana pool lets us case more spells is the same way that the spells are made more powerful. If you don't get that, you're in the wrong thread.

You seem to think this is just an issue of how mana will regenerate, and that isnt' the case. As a healer, you should know that as our mana bar grows, so does the strength of our heals. As such, we have an entire system balanced around 1 unit of stat = both more spells and more powerful spells. And, as it stands, it's barely getting the job done. Yes, I realize we will have ways to regen mana, even if the bar is fixed. But your analogy about hunters would only have merit if hunters shots got more powerful as they got faster.

If you don't intend to address the way that mana is different (rather than the fact that it's just a bar that goes down as you do stuff), I don't think you have much to contribute, no offense.
Edited by Aranyszin on 11/15/2011 11:13 PM PST
85 Night Elf Druid
6350
One other thing I miss in wrath is mostly healing with HoTs and the occasionally nourish to the tank or dps that pulled aggro.

The changes in cata made Regrowth sort of feel like a flash heal with a small hot.

I mean its not that its impossible to heal in cata by any means. (Edit: At least I don't think)

We just couldn't heal people though bad things like use too without going though a lot mana.

Idk maybe the healing gets easier with Tier gear like it did wrath.
My healing experience in cata was mostly at the start with normal 5mans.
I would try to conserve as much mana as possible so I didn't have to drink as often since drinking to refill mana just feels like it slows down the whole group.

I personally think the whole food/drink system to recover mana needs to be tossed and replace with greater out of combat health/mana Regen.
But I'm not sure how that would work in pvp maybe its a problem,
have it tweak if your pvp flagged.


I'd go dps and gear my healing set and give cata healing another shot if could but I just don't have the will to do normals to get geared.

But as I've said before cata just made the game feel like it wasn't for me anymore.

Only reason I'm posting here still is that I've got a few days of game time left and I thought I share my thoughts.
Edited by Bobthedruidz on 11/15/2011 11:11 PM PST
85 Troll Shaman
11460
I do not understand the appeal of reducing the value of our primary stat. There is no denying this will be an across the board nerf to healers. Since the claim is that the goal is not to nerf healers across the board what buff are we getting to balance this out? Increased spirit regen?

This seems like another one of those poorly thought out ideas that winds up getting reverted in the next expansion after we suffer through it. Like when leather/mail started having agi and ap.
90 Troll Priest
13710
This is my wish for healing:

Stop changing stuff.

Just leave it alone.

Back away from the design board.

Go work on a new non-combat pet questing system or something. Or come up with someway for people to get raid gear from farming herbs.

I absolutely loved my Mage prior to Cata. The constant yo-yo's of which spec is better in Cata drove me crazy and I got tired of it, so I swapped to a paladin so I wouldn't be asked to respec every week depending on which Dev got his way in the nerfs/buffs department that week.

Leave well enough alone. It's fine now. It was fine before. Just stop messing with it.


Quite being so terrified of change. It gets in the way of innovation.
85 Troll Shaman
0
(And don’t mistake a few dozen or even hundred passionate posts as consensus on anything.)


Why should we bother providing feedback at all then? Why even have these forums? Just so you can sit back and marginalize our time and effort to help you make your game more effective at earning you money?

I work for a company that sells hundreds of millions of units each year. If I took the above attitude that you displayed in your with just one customer's concern, I would be fired. And not on principle either - some times it's just one person who takes the time to report an issue that we then went on to find ended up a whole production run. In most cases people just return the product and buy something else we're left to wonder why. But at least we know it's not because we weren't ready to act upon the concerns of every one of our customers, every time, every day.

You happen to feel that managing a mana pool is the ultimate consideration to healing in WoW, while others happen to believe that positioning, raid awareness, co-ordination with others, filling green bars, and reflexes are what cause healing to be fun. You express a lack of interest in understanding others point of view, while this community bends over backward to accept and trust your point of view.

It's not very rewarding to be on our end of this relationship. This is especially so when you tell us in no uncertain terms that what we say really doesn't matter; In one post you say you listen to our feedback and in another you explicitly tell us that you don't listen to our feedback. What do you want from us? You're already getting our time, money, and passion.
- Technical Support
90 Human Priest
6120
@Tomaj:

I take it you've missed the part about the number of casts per mana pool remaining fixed? Just as with a rogue's attacks, a warrior/bear's abilities, and a hunter's shots, you get a fixed number of uses before the regen mechanic must come in to play. Period. Your mana doesn't increase, so even in every tier it's the same number of casts for that mana pool. Only your regen dictates how fast the mana is regained. You know, like haste does for rogues and hunters.

I think we just defined a fixed energy/rage/focus bar in blue.

And unless damage roles get a huge increase in the amount of mana gained per second/on-use ability mechanic, they'll be in the exact same boat too. Their number of casts will be fixed as well. Granted it'll make crit and mastery more attractive than they are now, but that's just highlighting a flaw in Blizzard's current design anyway. Haste past a certain (likely low) point will OOM damage casters just as fast as healers will go OOM, if not faster (unless again their regen is vastly increased and/or the regen ability/mechanic's cooldown is drastically lowered).

My priest and paladin will be effectively done and banished to the realm of dusty characters never again to be played if this goes live. My shaman I have no worries about unless they destroy Enhancement again (which is very possible). Elemental, not so eager to play with a permanently fixed mana pool. And my druid at least has feral/bear in 5.0. But that's damn near half of my characters' main spec/role benched from this.

This isn't a threat from me, it's a reality. I won't play what I know to be unpleasant. Hell, I hardly heal anymore as it is because of the severe lack of ability to really make up for anybody else's mistake and being chewed out for it constantly. Healing is already unrewarding. I only do it on regular heroics (non-ZA/ZG) when the CTA reward is up for it, and even then it's hit and miss since tanks/damage dealer players have shown no respect from us, and neither has Blizzard (priests in particular, but resto shammies very much so as well).

As somebody that has DPS specs for nearly all of his chars (minus the pally who is holy/prot), I take pride in my actually giving a damn about my teammates in dungeon crawls. I try to make their lives easier by not standing in the stupid. I try to dispel myself of debuffs whenever possible instead of making the healer have to do it for me. I use my mass dispel when needed so the healer can do their best to keep us alive. I vanish -> CC errant mobs or ones that might get pulled soon to avoid them running straight at the healer. I even peel mobs off healers and offtank/kite them if need be to keep the rest of the group alive until they can peel the mob(s) off me and I can get back to my job.

As a healer do I get help? Rarely. I'm usually stuck with the mob on me and I'm too busy spamming my fast inefficient mana hogging heals on myself to either heal anybody else or type in chat "GET IT OFF ME212111111111111111111WASD" (or whatever annoying phrase you care to insert). I've had to grin and bare it because I'm apparently the only pillar holding up the group and nobody else is, thus it's all my fault when my limited resources (which btw can't be regenerated anywhere near as fast or often as a damage dealer's can) dwindle because others make mistakes costing me time and the ability to heal something other than myself. Oh don't get me wrong - I rarely call anybody else out on it when I heal. At least not unless it's validated and/or continually happens, though on a continual happening basis I tend to let that person die if they aren't the tank to get the message through. If it is the tank and it continually happens because they won't help me help others, they get to die (from pulling without me landing a single heal on them) and I rez everybody else after having run far enough away to get out of combat's range so I'm never put into combat in the first place. If that seems just plain mean, then guess what: Blizzard made healing oh so fun for me compared to what it used to be, so I tend to be less forgiving now.

So now I endure the damage role wait times when queueing for dungeons. Why? So I don't have to endure (yes, endure) healing anymore unless the CTA reward is up (and even then that's not a guarantee I'll heal). I'd rather be the "guy on the outside" that uses his utility to help the group in addition to doing something I at least halfway like and enjoy than be the guy that does his best only to get berated when the group ultimately fails due to lack of any caring about the one guy keeping everybody else up and not taking dirt naps.

I have the sad impression that this change will finally kill off the holy trinity for WoW, and not in a good way.
5 Human Warlock
0
I don't know, the mana change doesn't seem too bad. I mean, at this point in time they really cannot afford to make things any more difficult or they risk a serious increase in the outflow of players. I fully expect that MoP will be easier than Cata. What they really need to do is change healing in a dramatic way to make it new and interesting. Grinding another 5 levels and then facing a grind through 3 or 4 more tiers of learning how to avoid the next generation of flames and poisons using our triage of heals to prop up our fellow raiders no longer holds much attraction for me and in fact seems quite distasteful. I don't know what it would take but I really hope they come up with something compelling. But then if they make heroic DW a 10 week 500 wipe boss, I doubt even the most compelling changes would be sufficient.
Edited by Merise on 11/15/2011 11:39 PM PST
85 Human Priest
5870
My question is that with all this effort being made on making spirt the only regen stat in MoP; will blizzard repeat the neglect of adding spirt cloth gear like they did in FL for future tiers?

Yes you could get 378 gear from rep and valor vendors, but where are my 391 spirt bracers? Where is my ability to min/max the stats, since the only 391 gear was tier or a wand? Luckily disc in its current state isn't that reliant on spirit that much. But with the new changes coming it will be. What will happen to class "X" if there is no spirt gear for them available? Or will they learn from the past and not repeat this so called "mistake"
85 Night Elf Druid
0
Will you cannibalize the interaction of Druid, Priest, Shaman, and Paladin with Spirit and Intellect coupled with Trinkets (Flow, Flow) to give yield to the Monk Class? That might be the question... #Knotty #Shaolin
Edited by Graviplana on 11/15/2011 11:39 PM PST
90 Human Priest
16170
11/15/2011 11:24 PMPosted by Atalzangar
You happen to feel that managing a mana pool is the ultimate consideration to healing in WoW, while others happen to believe that positioning, raid awareness, co-ordination with others, filling green bars, and reflexes are what cause healing to be fun. You express a lack of interest in understanding others point of view, while this community bends over backward to accept and trust your point of view.


Yeah... I miss WotLK and BC healing so much. I feel like I lost something that was so fun. =( I don't trust the developers' POV any longer. They obviously have no interest in making healing once again fun for me and anyone else who misses the old healing, so why should I trust them with anymore of my money once I've killed the last boss of Cata?
85 Night Elf Druid
0
I have had a good time healing in Cata. It was a really rough start, but the PvP BG has been really fun, and so have the 5-mans.
Edited by Graviplana on 11/16/2011 12:09 AM PST
90 Dwarf Paladin
13780
(And don’t mistake a few dozen or even hundred passionate posts as consensus on anything.)


Why should we bother providing feedback at all then? Why even have these forums? Just so you can sit back and marginalize our time and effort to help you make your game more effective at earning you money?

I work for a company that sells hundreds of millions of units each year. If I took the above attitude that you displayed in your with just one customer's concern, I would be fired. And not on principle either - some times it's just one person who takes the time to report an issue that we then went on to find ended up a whole production run. In most cases people just return the product and buy something else we're left to wonder why. But at least we know it's not because we weren't ready to act upon the concerns of every one of our customers, every time, every day.

You happen to feel that managing a mana pool is the ultimate consideration to healing in WoW, while others happen to believe that positioning, raid awareness, co-ordination with others, filling green bars, and reflexes are what cause healing to be fun. You express a lack of interest in understanding others point of view, while this community bends over backward to accept and trust your point of view.

It's not very rewarding to be on our end of this relationship. This is especially so when you tell us in no uncertain terms that what we say really doesn't matter; In one post you say you listen to our feedback and in another you explicitly tell us that you don't listen to our feedback. What do you want from us? You're already getting our time, money, and passion.


Eloquently put. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Read this again, blues. The more you tell us that a "few hundred" of us aren't representative, the more we're going to put it to you to introduce US to the supposed majority of players out there who agree with you. Because, so far, I'm not meeting any of them. And they seem to be too busy doing something else to come here and post support for this madness you've proposed.

You guys really need to stow this "we hear you and your opinion matters except that it really doesn't" attitude with us. This is not the time to tell your player base that you know what we will enjoy better than we do.
90 Night Elf Priest
11200
I can't keep up with this thread.

I'm not going to pretend to understand exactly what their newest plan is for healers. I need to read about it more before jumping on the hysterical bandwagon.

But I do want to say this:
Yes, please. We do want to pay less attention to our resources. Indeed we do. I've spent the last several months staring at my resources so hard that I have neck pain when I go to bed lol
I have only recently been able to glance away from my mana bar for longer than 10 seconds at a time.
For the first time since Cata came out...I've been finding the fun in healing again. Switched to Disc a few months ago and got geared enough to do Firelands. I still have to be very concerned about managing my mana...but it isn't the eyeball gouging affair it used to be.
I will weep...hard... if I have to go through that again.
71 Night Elf Priest
560
Why can't they just bring back spell power and make intellect the way it was? For example balance gear around spell power (bigger heals), intellect (more mana, some crit), spirit (regeneration). Seems easier than redesigning mana to act as energy. Or heres a radical idea, make spells increase in cost a bit as one obtains better stats. That way new healers have less problems. Bottom line is there are a million other ways to tackle these issues than a complete redesign which no one wants. Their going after a fly with a flamethrower.
80 Troll Hunter
720
11/16/2011 12:18 AMPosted by Aranyszin
You guys really need to stow this "we hear you and your opinion matters except that it really doesn't" attitude with us. This is not the time to tell your player base that you know what we will enjoy better than we do.


My biggest fear with regard to this healing change is that it is already decided and that the conversation about it doesn't make any difference; that would mean another two years before a change out of it, since they only do the "big changes" during expansions. It's very disheartening to hear "we're listening" but rarely see the actual stuff they're listening to because it's for their ears only, from sources we don't have. Mostly, I just want to have fun playing the game while healing again, but, if the changes from WotLK to Cata given the amount of feedback we saw last time are any indication, I am not going to get my hopes up.

:(
Edited by Wentzil on 11/16/2011 12:35 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Priest
3875
11/15/2011 11:43 PMPosted by Elliora
Yeah... I miss WotLK and BC healing so much. I feel like I lost something that was so fun. =( I don't trust the developers' POV any longer. They obviously have no interest in making healing once again fun for me and anyone else who misses the old healing, so why should I trust them with anymore of my money once I've killed the last boss of Cata?


Just wondering, apart from the ability to use Flash Heal liberally, what exactly is the difference between TBC/WotLK and Cata healing for Holy Priests. From what I can recall, I can't seem to think of any major differences in spell usage, but then I do have a pretty poor memory!
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