Raid healing is more stressful now.

85 Blood Elf Priest
4205
11/18/2011 04:29 PMPosted by Shyleana
The DPS role in particular seems to be exempted from all the stress and responsibility.


You mean keeping the damage coming while having to avoid things, interrupts, grabbing the adds that get by to keep them off the healer (because even tanks are human). Also as needed using Divine Hymn, Hymn of Hope, Bubble to help if the healer is struggling and don't forget that extra mana regen from MB while VT is up, but yes non-healers don't do anything but meter pump. Having played every role in this game will open up your eyes a fair bit and if you haven't tried it I suggest you do. There are a great many gripes like this that are plain untrue and break a team down.
100 Dwarf Warrior
13470
I agree.

Some people are griping that dps classes have a clear cut stat choice (Int/Str/Agi) but that may well be not so clear cut in Mists as well. Perhaps it simply hasn't been announced yet?

I'm not sure. At times, the devs have seemed agnostic or optimistic — depending on your stance — about secondary stat competition. I do recall GC confirming that DPS classes should always want their primary stat first, although I'd love to see some of the more lopsided specs (like Arms) given an overhaul to be less single-minded.

As far as healing goes, I enjoy playing a Holy priest because I don't boast about never watching my mana. I think Cataclysm succeeded in making healing about "playing darts," and that it enriched the game — and that this change, executed with regard for players stepping into T14, will be another good step.
90 Human Priest
10360
11/18/2011 05:06 PMPosted by Caighlana
The DPS role in particular seems to be exempted from all the stress and responsibility.


You mean keeping the damage coming while having to avoid things, interrupts, grabbing the adds that get by to keep them off the healer (because even tanks are human). Also as needed using Divine Hymn, Hymn of Hope, Bubble to help if the healer is struggling and don't forget that extra mana regen from MB while VT is up, but yes non-healers don't do anything but meter pump. Having played every role in this game will open up your eyes a fair bit and if you haven't tried it I suggest you do. There are a great many gripes like this that are plain untrue and break a team down.


Considering the changes made to threat that made it a cakewalk to grain threat, it's not hard to get adds off of anyone. I will give you, using your hymns is something that a spriest can do if asked or they see it needed, but if you're going to the trouble of bubbling people as shadow, there is a problem there with your healer's, not that you want to be altruistic.

I also have played every role this game has to offer over the last 6 and a half years that I've been playing, and since the process began of dumbing down everything else, healers get the extra load tossed on them. Blizzard wants to make something harder, do it on the backs of healers. Want to make a fight heroic, add double the boss damage and for good measure add some more aoe crap, or hey, lets add a crystal that does increasing damage AND have the tank get hit for 90% of his health, yay. You know how blizzard makes a fight heroic for dps, they make them have to count a debuff and move before it gets too high, or they make them interrupt a cast, ooo hard. I would love to see them start putting more on the backs of dps and tanks, although putting more on the tanks will probably just mean taking bigger hits or if they don't time their cooldowns/taunts right the healers will just have to "heal through it". Lets mix up the bosses, add more that are detrimental to dps.
86 Night Elf Druid
0
With the amount of Raw Nerd Processing Power around here, we should be able to build a cluster to figure out the truth, or "Ayn Rand-out" on this one.
85 Undead Priest
1900
11/18/2011 07:24 PMPosted by Ive


You mean keeping the damage coming while having to avoid things, interrupts, grabbing the adds that get by to keep them off the healer (because even tanks are human). Also as needed using Divine Hymn, Hymn of Hope, Bubble to help if the healer is struggling and don't forget that extra mana regen from MB while VT is up, but yes non-healers don't do anything but meter pump. Having played every role in this game will open up your eyes a fair bit and if you haven't tried it I suggest you do. There are a great many gripes like this that are plain untrue and break a team down.


Considering the changes made to threat that made it a cakewalk to grain threat, it's not hard to get adds off of anyone. I will give you, using your hymns is something that a spriest can do if asked or they see it needed, but if you're going to the trouble of bubbling people as shadow, there is a problem there with your healer's, not that you want to be altruistic.

I also have played every role this game has to offer over the last 6 and a half years that I've been playing, and since the process began of dumbing down everything else, healers get the extra load tossed on them. Blizzard wants to make something harder, do it on the backs of healers. Want to make a fight heroic, add double the boss damage and for good measure add some more aoe crap, or hey, lets add a crystal that does increasing damage AND have the tank get hit for 90% of his health, yay. You know how blizzard makes a fight heroic for dps, they make them have to count a debuff and move before it gets too high, or they make them interrupt a cast, ooo hard. I would love to see them start putting more on the backs of dps and tanks, although putting more on the tanks will probably just mean taking bigger hits or if they don't time their cooldowns/taunts right the healers will just have to "heal through it". Lets mix up the bosses, add more that are detrimental to dps.
Your actually sharing the healing responisiblity, just like everyone else. You don't have all those things that you listed to deal w/ at once. In the OVER 7.5 years i have played, healer tank and dps, which I can still do them all efficiently, I refuse to heal under the current model, because simply, its a pain in the !@#, but so is tanking. There really isn't much more they can do to dps however. Cept, make them move more, but then this makes it harder on healers, and tanks both.. Think before you speak.
100 Goblin Priest
14825
I honestly don't know why the obsession with healing by the development team, and I'm not sure why they insist upon the "Father knows best" model to what is "fun" for us.

If they want to make healing more "fun" or "challenging" then stop using the variation of the below on every blessed encounter:
1. OMG don't stand there, stuff will hurt you and if anyone dies, we wipe.
2. OMG if someone doesn't stand in this spot at this time, we wipe
3. OMG everyone is taking huge damage must top now or we wipe
4. OMG if the tank isn't topped or has a CD, we wipe.

Doing the same four mechanics above is what makes healing "not fun".

Doing the same four mechanics over and over again, only fretting about the mana situation doesn't magically make the encounter "fun" for us.

Want me to have fun as a healer? Give me better content.
90 Human Priest
10360


Considering the changes made to threat that made it a cakewalk to grain threat, it's not hard to get adds off of anyone. I will give you, using your hymns is something that a spriest can do if asked or they see it needed, but if you're going to the trouble of bubbling people as shadow, there is a problem there with your healer's, not that you want to be altruistic.

I also have played every role this game has to offer over the last 6 and a half years that I've been playing, and since the process began of dumbing down everything else, healers get the extra load tossed on them. Blizzard wants to make something harder, do it on the backs of healers. Want to make a fight heroic, add double the boss damage and for good measure add some more aoe crap, or hey, lets add a crystal that does increasing damage AND have the tank get hit for 90% of his health, yay. You know how blizzard makes a fight heroic for dps, they make them have to count a debuff and move before it gets too high, or they make them interrupt a cast, ooo hard. I would love to see them start putting more on the backs of dps and tanks, although putting more on the tanks will probably just mean taking bigger hits or if they don't time their cooldowns/taunts right the healers will just have to "heal through it". Lets mix up the bosses, add more that are detrimental to dps.
Your actually sharing the healing responisiblity, just like everyone else. You don't have all those things that you listed to deal w/ at once. In the OVER 7.5 years i have played, healer tank and dps, which I can still do them all efficiently, I refuse to heal under the current model, because simply, its a pain in the !@#, but so is tanking. There really isn't much more they can do to dps however. Cept, make them move more, but then this makes it harder on healers, and tanks both.. Think before you speak.


Lots of stuff we can still do. Where are the creative fights that made dps have to think we had before. Just two examples, magtheridon and gorefiend.

    Magtheridon - Dps had to stop and get the cubes or the raid wipes, simple, elegant, and on more than one occasion would get hunters in trouble cause they forgot to turn off auto shot before clicking. Was it complex, no, was it vitally important, yes. (and yes, you can make the argument that the crystals in bale are essentially the same thing)

    Gorefiend - Ghosts (sure not dps exclusive, but individual success or failure). You could not blame healers for not keeping up a tank if someone messed up on their ghosts


And the go to example we always give, that blizzard acknowledges and says they would do yet never do, is the "punish dps when they do something stupid with lower dps". Personally this is a double edge sword, because if they get punished with lower dps, it will just mean a longer fight for us to heal through or we meet an enrage. I'm more in favor of the gorefiend way of making dps personally responsible on the outcome of a fight not just by dpsing but by having to do something vitally important. Should every fight be this way, hell no. Should we start throwing more in, yes.
90 Pandaren Priest
13275
11/15/2011 11:08 AMPosted by Nethaera
Mana pools can still be large (we are thinking 100,000 mana at level 85) so that it doesn’t feel too bizarre to existing casters and doesn’t feel too much like rage or energy.


So if you are taking away the extra 20k+ mana that I currently have (I currently have 127k mana) are you going to make my healing spells cost less? I mean we have huge mana pools because the healing spells we need to cast on a consistent basis cost a LOT (5700-6k mana for a Greater Heal) so if you make our mana pools smaller and have int make our spells heal for more then I think you really need to up the amount of mana return from spirit (I currently have 3046 spirit which = 3155 combat regen) and I still start to go oom on tough fights. So, if Int no longer = mana I think you need to make our most used spells cost less or have 1 spirit = 3 MP5 or something to that effect.
85 Dwarf Shaman
3700
as a shaman i feel only as effective as the diameter of healing rain. so many people feel the need spread out so far that i'm forced to single target heal. no matter how much pleading i do in pugs i can never get everyone to stay close when the fight permits. i go to great lengths to find a place i can stand so i can get proper distances on everyone for best placement of healing rain and make sure chain heal jumps. yet most of the time i'm spamming GHWs and Riptides.
90 Draenei Priest
10755
The DPS role in particular seems to be exempted from all the stress and responsibility.


You mean keeping the damage coming while having to avoid things, interrupts, grabbing the adds that get by to keep them off the healer (because even tanks are human). Also as needed using Divine Hymn, Hymn of Hope, Bubble to help if the healer is struggling and don't forget that extra mana regen from MB while VT is up, but yes non-healers don't do anything but meter pump. Having played every role in this game will open up your eyes a fair bit and if you haven't tried it I suggest you do. There are a great many gripes like this that are plain untrue and break a team down.


Meh, if DPS was the hardest role to play, the majority of people wouldn't be DPS. Personally, I think that Bliz has managed to keep things fairly well balanced overall. Having done all of the roles, I think that it's a matter of personal playstyle more than anything else. I dislike the DPS role intensely and since healing is rather natural for me, I have a far better comprehension of this toon and its healing talents and healing specs than I ever will for shadow. Does that mean I think DPS is harder than healing period? No, it means that I don't like doing DPS so it's harder for me. Like the other roles in instances, healing can be very easy and can be very hard, depending on the makeup of the group. As a healer, I can handle either extreme and anything in the middle. I can't say the same for tanking (which is easier for me than DPS) or DPS. Personal preference.
Edited by Icepirate on 11/19/2011 6:37 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Priest
9675
11/18/2011 01:58 PMPosted by Shyleana
The question I have asked, and which no Blue has to my knowledge ever answered, is why there has not been a greater effort to put balancing mechanics into the game encounters which more evenly distribute the stress among the roles, rather than just adding more and more and more to the backs of healers?


They honestly believe the changes they put in place is to balance the mechanics. They honestly believe that everyone understands that if a healer cannot heal you through a stupid mistake, then the logical response is to adjust ones own stupid play style.

What the developers do not understand - and I believe this is where the miscommunication between players and devs exists - is that the community has played this game going on 7 years now, accustomed to healers being the counter to mistakes. And throughout this entire expansion, they haven't yet learned. DPS will continue to stand in fire because they are pulling huge numbers, and healers will always be expected to fix it.

And you know what? I don't think its all that bad. If we as healers are only meant to heal the predictable scripted damage, how does that make us any different than an NPC? I kinda liked being able to heal through other player's mistakes - it was a healer's bragging rights to say "yeah the tank didn't move out of flame wall quick enough, but I kept him up and we beat the boss". That spoke volumes of a healer's skill and strength.

*shrug* They believe resource management is where we are to derive our fun. So, if that isn't our idea of fun, then we should look into a new role.
100 Blood Elf Priest
12360
I like the planned changes. But I'm probably biased since I'm a holy priest at heart.

I've always wished for regen to be uncoupled with intellect ever since the devs changed spirit to be the regen stat. This didn't really work well since a lot of regen mechanics work on total mana pools.

The question I have asked, and which no Blue has to my knowledge ever answered, is why there has not been a greater effort to put balancing mechanics into the game encounters which more evenly distribute the stress among the roles, rather than just adding more and more and more to the backs of healers?


I'm not sure what fights you've been doing but a lot of encounters lately have the "difficulty" spread around the roles. The problem you're probably getting is having dps that don't cut it, and the raid cut the healers =P If they design a fight around 5 healers, 2 tanks, 18 dps, and each dps theoretically needs 30k dps to make the enrage timer (taking into consideration what dps you can generate at the appropriate ilevel gear) and a third of them do 25k, raid leaders have been more apt to cut healers than make the dps do more. If the fight is designed for 5 healers and you go down to 3, then yes the healer stress skyrockets. It's not usually possible to cut tanks ;) If you look at L2R guides, the range of healer amount can be a difference of 3 healers, from 3-6 on a bunch of fights.

None of the other roles have it easier than healers in my opinion. I primarily play healers but dps and tanking can be just as stressful. Interrupting, moving, and generating the needed dps isn't as easy as it looks. Tanking is just easy on tank and spanks (we don't have a lot of those anymore) but add tanking and swapping aren't that easy either.
Edited by Benea on 11/19/2011 9:19 AM PST
90 Tauren Druid
14485
I prefer Cataclysm healing over Wrath healing.
85 Blood Elf Priest
11215
Edited
Edited by Avvi on 11/19/2011 3:25 PM PST
71 Draenei Death Knight
5010

And you know what? I don't think its all that bad. If we as healers are only meant to heal the predictable scripted damage, how does that make us any different than an NPC? I kinda liked being able to heal through other player's mistakes - it was a healer's bragging rights to say "yeah the tank didn't move out of flame wall quick enough, but I kept him up and we beat the boss". That spoke volumes of a healer's skill and strength.


THIS! THIS! Ten thousand times this!!!
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