Raid healing is more stressful now.

85 Night Elf Druid
11045
I personally fail to believe giving healers a static max mana will resolve the issues of managing the resource in the long run.
Just as rogues and hunters can get more haste to increase their energy/focus regen, healers will be fully capable to stack spirit to new extremes (for pure regen, no throughput gain like haste for DPS). Considering the number of gems/enchants/flasks that can be swapped between intellect and spirit, there is quite a large area for healers to balance their spirit and intellect levels in a given gear set. The percentage by which a healer could instantly boost their mana regen through swapping gems/enchants/spirit seems enormous. Given item inflation in later tiers following this change, I can only imagine mana bars looking like a haste stacked MM Hunter's focus bar with Hungerer+Matrix procs and RF running simultaneously.
If the quantity of stats are to remain the same on gear, there would need to be a fairly aggressive DR on spirit regen to prevent the exact problem that is supposedly being fixed by this proposed change. The "Squish" has already been proposed. I believe that might be a better concept to attempt first before trying to balance that with an entirely new locked resource for casters.
Changing to a purely spirit based regen system would also likely put even more value in acquiring items with functions like Shard of Woe, Jaws of Defeat, and Alchemists' Stones, which could permit more stats to be moved back into throughput.
90 Night Elf Priest
0
Misuish nailed it. Fun for me was knowing that I saved someone's butt. That fun was taken away in Cata, and that is one of many reasons I am so strongly against the new healing style. My personal preference was Wrath's Healing, where a Tank was smashed and would die and the healer would be like "Hell no, he lives!" *super heal*.


I hated that. Raids were wrath of the instant heal spam and instant tank death if a cd was missed (or even if it was not). Nothing was casted cause hey, who had time to cast. I still save butts, I don't depend on the green bar completely filling up instantly to give me particular satifaction.
I don't know. I find current system way better than wrath. Not perfect, but way way better. I never want to go back to that.
I think Cata only served to cut out people who couldn't figure healing out unless it was so easy it was brain dead. That's of course highly subjective of me but I truly think that. I couldn't believe how much whining there was over the simplest of concepts when cata hit.
Edited by Sedivy on 11/19/2011 2:45 PM PST
85 Night Elf Druid
11045
Napkin math for percentage boost swapping intellect for spirit:

15gems = 580 spirit
meta = 54 spirit
chest = 40 spirit
bracers = 50 spirit
flask = 300 spirit
applicable profession bonuses = 80 spirit

Net spirit gain = 1104

Assuming near BiS spirit "healing" gear currently nets around 3600 spirit this would be a 30.6% gain in mana regen by simply swapping gems/enchants/flasks. Heartsong was neglected due to varying uptimes and being conditional on choosing to cast.

This gain would be even larger in a first tier of content given current weights of enchants and gems in proportion to gear stats.

That seems to be quite a difference in regen potentials.

EDIT- Forgot to account for meta activation.
Edited by Niccert on 11/19/2011 3:13 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
4800
healing should be harder. This triage model lasted 2 weeks after cataclysm launched.
85 Tauren Priest
11575
Misuish nailed it. Fun for me was knowing that I saved someone's butt. That fun was taken away in Cata, and that is one of many reasons I am so strongly against the new healing style. My personal preference was Wrath's Healing, where a Tank was smashed and would die and the healer would be like "Hell no, he lives!" *super heal*.

That isnt possible now as our Mana drops like a rock. Because I despise the healing model, and those who seem so adamant on forcing it down everyone's throats, (This thread is pretty self evident that a lot of people across the board disliked it.) Here's a thought.


Pretty sure I missed where "across the board" was, because there are a lot of players on both sides of the fence in this thread - including the first page. Also, I didn't feel more powerful in Wrath. I felt weaker because if I made one teeny, tiny mistake (i.e., if I stopped casting for more than moving out of bad), it was a wipe.

Offer your players two styles of healing. One being the old Wrath style one, and one that is the Cataclysm "model". Then we can see who when given a choice "really" would use that system. I'm fairly confident of which one will be the more used model.


The former would only be used out of necessity. Not necessarily because people enjoy it. I certainly didn't.

edit for grammerz.
Edited by Tomaj on 11/19/2011 3:53 PM PST
92 Draenei Mage
16710
11/15/2011 11:08 AMPosted by Nethaera
This is our intent. We aren’t trying to nerf healers across the board, and if we were, there are cleaner ways to do that.


11/15/2011 11:08 AMPosted by Nethaera
Mana pools can still be large (we are thinking 100,000 mana at level 85)


My healing toons have 125k+ mana currently, and we still have a tier of content to go yet. How is a 20%+ reduction in my mana pool NOT a nerf?
Edited by Aeriya on 11/19/2011 4:39 PM PST
90 Undead Priest
11435
11/19/2011 04:30 PMPosted by Aeriya
My healing toons have 125k+ mana currently, and we still have a tier of content to go yet. How is a 20%+ reduction in my mana pool NOT a nerf?

My thoughts exactly. >.> Once I get my hands on Jaws of Defeat or somesuch, I'll actually be at 141k mana with Kings. Without adjusting the cost of our heals, a mana pool restricted to 100k sure as hell feels like a nerf to me.
100 Night Elf Druid
17395
11/19/2011 04:33 PMPosted by Antimony
My thoughts exactly. >.> Once I get my hands on Jaws of Defeat or somesuch, I'll actually be at 141k mana with Kings. Without adjusting the cost of our heals, a mana pool restricted to 100k sure as hell feels like a nerf to me.


My resto druid/holy pally had 100k mana pools a month after cata release...that's comparable to a mana pool of players in 346 ilvl gear.

Too much micromanagement is occuring throughout the entire game. Sit back, chill and let people just play. You dont need to rewire the fuse-box every month.


It really feels as though some changes implemented in game are simply arbitrary. Like my momma said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Edited by Celista on 11/19/2011 5:20 PM PST
90 Undead Priest
11435
11/19/2011 05:14 PMPosted by Celista
My resto druid/holy pally had 100k mana pools a month after cata release...that's comparable to a mana pool of players in 346 ilvl gear.

Exactly my point.
85 Night Elf Priest
9090


Too much micromanagement is occuring throughout the entire game. Sit back, chill and let people just play. You dont need to rewire the fuse-box every month. You dont need to reward / detriment people for following / not following what you believe to be proper-play. Let the "players" decide what that is, and it works out eventually.



Please go back to making the world's greatest playground and allowing us some freedom to have fun enjoying it as we choose.


100 Dwarf Warrior
14290
Guys — the devs aren't just going to cut mana pools by a third and call it a day. Right now Intellect does everything but walk the dog while Spirit's for suckers; they want to change that, and the first step is to clarify resource mechanics.
100 Night Elf Priest
17000
11/19/2011 05:32 PMPosted by Aedilhild
Guys — the devs aren't just going to cut mana pools by a third and call it a day. Right now Intellect does everything but walk the dog while Spirit's for suckers; they want to change that, and the first step is to clarify resource mechanics.

Spirit's still important. I mean, I'm not GEMMING spirit, but I'm not reforging out of it, either.

I hope you're right, though.
90 Night Elf Priest
0
I don't think you understand what impact wrath healing had on other classes. CC was made absolutely pointless, tanking required no skill, especially in dungeons, and dps forgot they needed to do anything other than hit buttons that did damage. That expansion dumbed down the game in total by a lot because hey, no matter what the damage, and what the mechanics, there was always a healer who could pull you through it all. Why pay attention and do things correctly or make any effort at all? We aren't supposed to be supermen and we aren't supposed to save the day. We have a role, just like any other player, and not everything hinges on us. As it should be.

I remember the shock in cata when people actually had to find their cc buttons and learn to cc, especially those that first started playing in wrath.

Wrath was bad bad bad for gameplay, healer and other classes both. Lets never go back to that.
Edited by Sedivy on 11/19/2011 5:37 PM PST
71 Night Elf Priest
560
I don't think you understand what impact wrath healing had on other classes. CC was made absolutely pointless, tanking required no skill, especially in dungeons, and dps forgot they needed to do anything other than hit buttons that did damage. That expansion dumbed down the game in total by a lot because hey, no matter what the damage, and what the mechanics, there was always a healer who could pull you through it all. Why pay attention and do things correctly or make any effort at all? We aren't supposed to be supermen and we aren't supposed to save the day. We have a role, just like any other player, and not everything hinges on us. As it should be.

I remember the shock in cata when people actually had to find their cc buttons and learn to cc, especially those that first started playing in wrath.

Wrath was bad bad bad for gameplay, healer and other classes both. Lets never go back to that.


Can we go back to BC then?
90 Night Elf Priest
0
Well BC was decent but you really want to go to downranking? I mean I thought messing with downranking really kinda sucked. I prefer it as it is currently. Problems with current model include the fact that it was good when it came out but inevitably it changed drastically as stat inflation happened over the course of the expansion.
71 Night Elf Priest
560
11/19/2011 05:47 PMPosted by Sedivy
Well BC was decent but you really want to go to downranking? I mean I thought messing with downranking really kinda sucked. I prefer it as it is currently. Problems with current model include the fact that it was good when it came out but inevitably it changed drastically as stat inflation happened over the course of the expansion.


Yeah downranking works. Kinda cool how it was up to you to judge what rank is appropriate at what moment. Cataclysm is broken because blizzard broke it. They made intellect way to powerful. You need to acknowledge this. And guess what happens now because of their mistake, we get fixed mana bars. Absolutely silly series of events that are unforgivable.
100 Night Elf Druid
17395
11/19/2011 06:03 PMPosted by Redstar
Yeah downranking works. Kinda cool how it was up to you to judge what rank is appropriate at what moment. Cataclysm is broken because blizzard broke it. They made intellect way to powerful. You need to acknowledge this. And guess what happens now because of their mistake, we get fixed mana bars. Absolutely silly series of events that are unforgivable.


Ugh no. Downranking was silly. I do not miss that.

And downranking left the game early Wrath, the intellect change isn't due to downranking leaving the game...I agree that fixed mana bars look like a bad idea so far, but there's no real correlation between early wrath changes and mop changes.
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