Raid healing is more stressful now.

71 Night Elf Priest
560
11/19/2011 06:14 PMPosted by Celista
Yeah downranking works. Kinda cool how it was up to you to judge what rank is appropriate at what moment. Cataclysm is broken because blizzard broke it. They made intellect way to powerful. You need to acknowledge this. And guess what happens now because of their mistake, we get fixed mana bars. Absolutely silly series of events that are unforgivable.


Ugh no. Downranking was silly. I do not miss that.

And downranking left the game early Wrath, the intellect change isn't due to downranking leaving the game...I agree that fixed mana bars look like a bad idea so far, but there's no real correlation between early wrath changes and mop changes.


Everything in the universe is connected.
1 Troll Warlock
0
11/15/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Nethaera
My main concern is that while addressing their goals... they completely let the idea of what is fun for a healer fly right over their heads.


Not at all. “What is fun” is our primary concern. As I pointed out above however, players rarely agree on what is fun and are often on completely opposite sides. If everyone agreed, our jobs would be easy. (And don’t mistake a few dozen or even hundred passionate posts as consensus on anything.)

We don’t think ignoring a resource is fun. For healers, it would just mean using your most powerful spell in every situation, because there is no reason not to do so. Once you aren’t making decisions on the fly, you’re just going through encounter robotically, which doesn’t sound too engaging. On the flip side, content being brutally difficult might not be fun either (though we know it is for at least a small percentage of our players) so we want to make sure you aren’t overly punished for mistakes and make sure mana isn’t so precious that you are spending lots of time idle. As I also said above, we think this change will be smaller than some of you appear to be thinking, which is why I am spending so much effort to try and assuage your concerns.
Thren you NEED to listen to the 90% of us who are not interested in relearning our role. Full mana isn't fun, no, but neither is prioritisig my mana pool over your health pool; when both are at ~60% the entire run, that's not fun either.
85 Tauren Priest
11575
11/19/2011 07:47 PMPosted by Garelda
Thren you NEED to listen to the 90% of us


Arbitrary number is arbitrary.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
4800
Healing is too easy and boring atm. the only time healing was hard was the few heroics you did in 333 gear.

The only 378+ healers that go oom in current content are the mentally ill ones. its boring and its easy.

Nerf my mana pool, stomp my stats, but make healing engaging.

kthxbye
63 Draenei Death Knight
9325
Things like this are why I only play this game "maybe" 3 to 4 hours a month now. I would rather learn boss fights and kill things instead of re-learning the same class/roll I've played since 2005 every few months. If I wanted my class to be different, I would move over to an alt. Of course you are killing that by trying to make them all the same.


If I am using keys 1 2 3 and 4 to do my job, I don't appreciate a developer running in with a hammer, smashing those keys, and telling me to use 5 6 7 and 8 instead or get out.

You got healing right once in 6 years, what reassurance do we have that you will not break it again this time around?
63 Draenei Death Knight
9325
Healing is too easy and boring atm. the only time healing was hard was the few heroics you did in 333 gear.

The only 378+ healers that go oom in current content are the mentally ill ones. its boring and its easy.

Nerf my mana pool, stomp my stats, but make healing engaging.

kthxbye


Things... get... easy... when... you... out... gear... them... considerably...
Put on 333 gear and go at it.
90 Orc Warrior
0
skimmed thread.

so FIXED mana pools in MoP? Is that waht I just read?

homogenized.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
4800
Things... get... easy... when... you... out... gear... them... considerably...
Put on 333 gear and go at it.


Things... should.... get... more... challenging... .when.... you... advance... on... a ... game.
and not the other way around.
85 Dwarf Shaman
3700
they should just move all classes to a warhammer style resource system where everyone has two resources. one that functions like energy and one that functions like runic power. then they can change stat priorities like they are in rift. strength for warriors, agi for rogues, hunters, intel for mages and warlocks and spirit for priests, shamans, druids, paladins (with spec passives that convert spirit into either spell power, attack power or what every they want tanks to have for that content patch).

63 Draenei Death Knight
9325
Things... get... easy... when... you... out... gear... them... considerably...
Put on 333 gear and go at it.


Things... should.... get... more... challenging... .when.... you... advance... on... a ... game.
and not the other way around.


They do. That's why they make raids and heroic raids.
86 Blood Elf Paladin
9845
Ill be honest developers I dont understand why this change will be made. The reasons you stated in your two posts I read dont explain why/how this will be an improvement for healer game play nor a valid reason for the change.

As to my opinion on the change, I am sitting on the wall but leaning towards please dont make this change.
86 Tauren Shaman
14225
More than anything else the various responses in this thread make me hopeful that when Blizzard does decide to implement whatever they do (because things can't stay like they are now and I understand that) that they will:

A) Be a lot more thorough in testing/balancing shifting from the old content to the new, vs other specs of the same class, other class abilities, and 5/10/25 man monster/boss abilities.

B) Be more responsive to issues EARLY in the expansion. I understand hesitation to change things too much in the middle of an expansion (even if some would call that a bad excuse), but that is no case for the opposite extreme ignoring a real problem for so long.

If you want a lot time to wait and see how things go that's fine, but you can't in the same breath complain that too much time has passed and people "might get confused or upset at relearning their class", ESPECIALLY when there are quite a few class spells/abilities that have been changing every tier this expansion (sometimes multiple times).

Again, I lost a lot of faith in Blizzard this expansion from a 10 man Resto Shaman PoV. It's not that I don't think they can't do revamps and sweeping Healer changes properly. But just because they can do something properly doesn't mean they will, because as far as I am concerned it has been mixed results at best. The ball is in your court to work toward fixing all this skepticism, Blizzard. It's not unwarranted.
100 Blood Elf Priest
12745
11/15/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Nethaera
We don’t think ignoring a resource is fun. For healers, it would just mean using your most powerful spell in every situation, because there is no reason not to do so. Once you aren’t making decisions on the fly, you’re just going through encounter robotically, which doesn’t sound too engaging.

I don't understand how "not being horribly painfully constrained by mana" equates to "not making decisions on the fly." Maybe if you're a Wrath holy paladin, with two spells that do exactly the same thing at different levels of output...but...that class doesn't exist anymore. We're all much more complex. None of us have an absolute "most powerful spell."

Sure, not everyone can be a holy priest (speaking of which, can holy priests please be rebalanced so that PoH isn't so out of whack with everything else?). But these days, if you're, for example, a shaman, the choice between GHW and CH isn't primarily about mana. It's about which spell is suitable for the situation. And making decisions based on which spell is suitable is fun.

Having some level of concern about mana is also a valuable and potentially-compelling mechanic, but obsessing over efficiency at the expense of absolutely everything else is no different than obsessing over throughput at the expense of everything else - it leads to the same one-spell spam, just chosen by a different metric. Look at holy priests in tier 11, who went to some absurd lengths to avoid casting anything other than PoH. And then there are disc priests, for whom the "efficiency" and "throughput" rankings are almost exactly identical except for PWS; making mana matter more, from a disc priest perspective, equates to simply casting less.
Edited by Kaels on 11/21/2011 2:31 AM PST
92 Human Paladin
7880
Ok, I'm surely in the minority at around 60 years of age to begin with. I have tried healing on a druid and priest and went with this paladin character for many years precisely because it was less complex not only in the reduced number of spells to use but because I had a nice "niche" in raids focused on the tanks.

I haven't raided as a healer at all in Cataclysm. Too many choices that just confused me at times. What spell do I use now? AOE or single target?

There are times when I miss healing but then switching over to my DPS characters is so much less stressful and fun. Stay out of stuff, move away from things and just wail away. Healing fun for me is pulling someone through when they make a mistake and I can't do that in Cataclysm. LOH is the only thing I have left. Most heals now are insufficient to "rescue" someone and I certainly can't spam big heals for very long.

It seems healing now takes more skill and DPS less.

Consider making healing less complicated. This paladin would come back. The healing classes seems to be more and more similiar. I like the differentiation when it existed.
Edited by Palliebabe on 11/21/2011 3:34 AM PST
85 Orc Shaman
5985
11/18/2011 03:27 PMPosted by Kateri
In my personal opinion, i prefer Cata healing over wrath, wrath healing was boring because once you got a little bit of gear, you could literally heal raids and NEVER go oom and still keep people alive (disc priest spamming flash heal comes to mind) and that was boring and a bad design in my opinion. I heal hard mode firelands every week (before and after nerf) and i really like the thought of having to manage my mana to a higher extent or go oom because i was careless. It makes it more interesting and fun to me. I like the idea of "if i go oom, then i need to be more careful than i was"


This is not Wrath healing vs Cata healing thread, we are talking about the upcoming changes to healing meant to happen in MoP.
85 Orc Shaman
5985
BAD Resto Shaman have BAD mana regen and control over their mana pools.

TC is a pvp spell at best and has NEVER been needed to heal pve content.

Any Resto Shaman using a lightning bolt to gain mana realy needs to check their heals used for that fight.

Top 3 heals for a Resto Shaman in most given situations should always be Riptide (great heal at low mana cost), Healing Wave (great heal at low mana cost), and Healing Stream Totem (so over powered its mind blowing).

You can assume I have only healed the content after it was nerfed if you want but my guild and I know otherwise.


If those are your 3 top heals you are being carried and thats why you dont have mana problems.
85 Orc Shaman
5985
11/18/2011 07:57 PMPosted by Shadowpreest
Your actually sharing the healing responisiblity, just like everyone else. You don't have all those things that you listed to deal w/ at once. In the OVER 7.5 years i have played, healer tank and dps, which I can still do them all efficiently, I refuse to heal under the current model, because simply, its a pain in the !@#, but so is tanking. There really isn't much more they can do to dps however. Cept, make them move more, but then this makes it harder on healers, and tanks both.. Think before you speak.


This was done in another game, but its something that can be made. In another game (it doesnt matter which) an object appears in the fight and must be dpsed down in 20 seconds or less or its a wipe.

There is no damage during that phase, so any wipe during that phase its a dps problem.

Of course, in this freaking game the burden will fall in the healers because riads will reduce the amount of healers and increase the amount of dps so that they can still doing their role while being relaxed, but in the game i mention the DPS actually maxed out their dps in that phase, go figure...

Its all about creative desing, and Blizzard must stop giving their community the message that every challenge should be put in healers shoulders, like they are doing now and have done since almost the beginning. Its a bad message they are sending.
Edited by Gromahk on 11/21/2011 4:01 AM PST
85 Orc Shaman
5985
11/19/2011 02:43 PMPosted by Sedivy
Misuish nailed it. Fun for me was knowing that I saved someone's butt. That fun was taken away in Cata, and that is one of many reasons I am so strongly against the new healing style. My personal preference was Wrath's Healing, where a Tank was smashed and would die and the healer would be like "Hell no, he lives!" *super heal*.


I hated that. Raids were wrath of the instant heal spam and instant tank death if a cd was missed (or even if it was not). Nothing was casted cause hey, who had time to cast. I still save butts, I don't depend on the green bar completely filling up instantly to give me particular satifaction.
I don't know. I find current system way better than wrath. Not perfect, but way way better. I never want to go back to that.
I think Cata only served to cut out people who couldn't figure healing out unless it was so easy it was brain dead. That's of course highly subjective of me but I truly think that. I couldn't believe how much whining there was over the simplest of concepts when cata hit.


Wrath wasn't like that in Naxx and Ulduar, which are the things we should be comparing to Cata since are the two first tiers like what we got in cata.

If you spammed the innefective heal in Ulduar, you would go oom before the fight ends.
85 Orc Shaman
5985
11/19/2011 05:32 PMPosted by Aedilhild
Guys — the devs aren't just going to cut mana pools by a third and call it a day. Right now Intellect does everything but walk the dog while Spirit's for suckers; they want to change that, and the first step is to clarify resource mechanics.


You want to clarify the mechanics? INT GIVES MANA, in every single RPG existing int he world.

Now, you want to make someone belive you are clarifying mechanics by INT NOT GIVING MANA?

Don't be a fool. This have nothing to do with clarifying mechanics, this has to do with the less powerfull healers are, the easier to develop encounters because you need to be less creative.

It's pretty clear now, every class has it stat to stack, EVERY SINGLE ONE, but suddenly its a problem that healers have one.

They know 1 int isnt equal to 1 mana, yet the choice in gems are 40 int or 40 spirit.... maybe if the choice were 40 int or 80 spirit something would change.

Maybe if you didn't have regen mechanics tied to max mana then mana pools increasing wouldn't be so much problematic.

But no, you have to make healers life miserable, and you have to change a core RPG thing and you even have the guts to say its for "clarification·.

Gearing has never been more clear than now, not even in Wrath.
85 Orc Shaman
5985
Things... get... easy... when... you... out... gear... them... considerably...
Put on 333 gear and go at it.


Things... should.... get... more... challenging... .when.... you... advance... on... a ... game.
and not the other way around.


Heroic ragnaros is more challenging than anything else in Cata. Your point is flawed.

You are healing a nerfed raid while outgearing (FL is meant to be made with tier 11 gear not t12) and wondering why its easy.

Things get easier because DPS scale absurdly good. Fights gets reduced by 3 minutes or more because how they scale.

Yet somehow its a problem that we scale up, even when we scale way worse.
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