Raid healing is more stressful now.

85 Night Elf Priest
14935
Things... get... easy... when... you... out... gear... them... considerably...
Put on 333 gear and go at it.


Things... should.... get... more... challenging... .when.... you... advance... on... a ... game.
and not the other way around.


This doesn't represent Blizzard's model at all. Raid conent becomes more challenging, but players become more powerful as they gear up.

What if tanks didn't increase their dodge/parry/mastery as they geared up, and had a static amount throughout the course of an expansion? Because that is exactly what blizzard is suggesting for healers.
85 Blood Elf Priest
2535


Things... should.... get... more... challenging... .when.... you... advance... on... a ... game.
and not the other way around.


This doesn't represent Blizzard's model at all. Raid conent becomes more challenging, but players become more powerful as they gear up.

What if tanks didn't increase their dodge/parry/mastery as they geared up, and had a static amount throughout the course of an expansion? Because that is exactly what blizzard is suggesting for healers.


But hey you are talking like healers shouldn't be singled out from the game and threated differently.

Stop talking crazy man. You're making too much sense.

85 Orc Shaman
5985



Things... should.... get... more... challenging... .when.... you... advance... on... a ... game.
and not the other way around.


This doesn't represent Blizzard's model at all. Raid conent becomes more challenging, but players become more powerful as they gear up.

What if tanks didn't increase their dodge/parry/mastery as they geared up, and had a static amount throughout the course of an expansion? Because that is exactly what blizzard is suggesting for healers.


They will have to take taunts off them first, so that they cant easily fix other peoples mistake like they already did to healers.

DPS took aggro off me or pulled before me? Well, hes dead unless i can out aggro him from dpsing (improbable), i cant save him from his stupidity.

I'm sure tnaks get some of Blizzard's "FUN" too. Maybe give some "FUN" to DPS too? They must be getting really boring.

Edited by Gromahk on 11/21/2011 6:06 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Priest
2535



This doesn't represent Blizzard's model at all. Raid conent becomes more challenging, but players become more powerful as they gear up.

What if tanks didn't increase their dodge/parry/mastery as they geared up, and had a static amount throughout the course of an expansion? Because that is exactly what blizzard is suggesting for healers.


They will have to take taunts off them first, so that they cant easily fix other peoples mistake like they already did to healers.

DPS took aggro off me or pulled before me? Well, hes dead unless i can out aggro him from dpsing (improbable), i cant save him from his stupidity.

I'm sure tnaks get some of Blizzard's "FUN" too. Maybe give some "FUN" to DPS too? They must be getting really boring.


"FUN" to DPS is simple, raise the hit requirements.

They are hitting targets TOO MUCH. Thats isn't fun, they should worry about missing because right now they can just hit everything.

How about that? Heh
Edited by Hoylshadow on 11/21/2011 6:09 AM PST
85 Orc Shaman
5985

"FUN" to DPS is simple, raise the hit requirements.

They are hitting targets TOO MUCH. Thats isn't fun, they should worry about missing because right now they can just hit everything.

How about that? Heh


Well, maybe we should make the bosses put some non dispellable shield reflecting the damage so they actually have to stop dpsing the boss for some time.

I'm guessing a mechanic like that would wipe entire raids for days.

Oh yes, and agility scales to good for rogues, hunters and enancement shamans since it gives ap crit and dodge, i think agility should give only ap now, no crit.

Also, haste for rogues is scaling too good, since its a secondary stat that gives them thoughput AND regen, and apparently its wrong even for primary stats to do so, haste should not increase regen anymore. There should be a new stat, call it energyp5.

Withh all those changes, they can even start to see what we have to put up with, and that is just to start getting a grasp.
Edited by Gromahk on 11/21/2011 6:18 AM PST
85 Gnome Priest
5875
Blizz designs fights to require fewer and fewer healers, so I don't think that players quitting healing and new players not picking it up will really be an issue.
As for changes to the healing model-its tricky that its always with new content. If they could slide healer changes in early, it would be less frustrating and maybe even more interesting. Healers frequently have to provide a 'cushion' in new content while tanks learn when to use CDs/perfect their taunt rotations and dps practice killing/kiting adds and staying out of bad stuff.
Learning a completely new healing model while minimally geared for progression content can make a player feel like a 'bad healer', as they work on finding that right balance between throughput and regen on their raid's time.
85 Draenei Shaman
3325
i want everyone to have a lot more stamina, especially tanks and low levels. casting greater heal on a tank never feels safe and thats not the way it should be.
90 Night Elf Druid
14440
So I haven't read the entire 52 pages of this thread, but below are my opinions about healing.

I have been healing since BC as a druid. I will admit, in BC I did not get super far raiding. I raided all of WotLK and all of Cata. I raided 10 & 25 man in WotlK, but only 10 man in Cata. I focus on normal mode raiding. My below post is on raid healing only not 5-mans.

Healing in general is the exact same as it used to be. Sure I push different buttons, but I still have the same style. In BC I had the option to chain drink mana potions or enter the 5 second rule, did I though? Not often, I was constantly healing somebody. In WotLK, I could drink one mana potion per fight and I was constantly healing somebody (until I brutally over geared the encounters). In Cata, once again, I am still constantly healing somebody.

Healing was more intricate in BC for me than it is now honestly. I remember switching weapons for innervate during the fight, having a set job I was in charge of and only doing that, and having to know when to tree form and when not to (certain spells couldn't be cast in tree form and you moved really slow). I had a much smaller number of heal spells and I didn't use healing touch much (omg it was slow).

In WotLK it transitioned to me healing everyone all the time. Tree form wasn't slow and I pushed all of my buttons often (except healing touch). I was not one of those druids who only used wild growth and rejuvenation.

In Cata, I still heal everyone all the time, but I'm also hoping people are doing the job I assigned to them. I can't keep two tanks and the raid up by myself. I'm still pretty stingy with healing touch and I rarely tree form (except to dps or dance >,>).

Healing isn't harder for me at all, but raiding is. What do I mean? I have to depend on more people now. In WotLK I could carry weak dps, healers, and tanks for the most part. In Cata, a larger percentage of the group needs to be good at what they do. In WotLK, the exception to this was the Lich King encounter. I spent months wiping on that encounter because of weak dps (sorry guys 7k dps with a 15% buff was not enough) who liked to stand in defile.

Does the Cata healing change make sense? To me it does.

How about the Mists change? I will have to play with it and find out. I really love stacking my mana pool and ignoring regen (sorta). In the future I'll stack regen instead (it'll remind me of when innervate was spirit based). I doubt my healing style will change much. But what if it does? I'm sure I'll adapt. As long as we don't go back to chugging potions and the 5-second rule, I'll be pleased.
90 Night Elf Druid
8305
Suggestion: Just go dps.

I had 4 healers at 85 and i am gearing them as dps now ..... I can stand in the fire, just look to my meter in different angles and smash those 4 buttons.

I don't even need to watch my mana !!

Really, i don't know why it took me 4 years to stop healing and starting dps .... Fool !

I am even enjoying wow again !
90 Dwarf Warrior
12920
11/21/2011 04:26 AMPosted by Gromahk
But no, you have to make healers life miserable, and you have to change a core RPG thing and you even have the guts to say its for "clarification·.

If you want to believe that, you can, but you are going to remain "miserable." ;)

The devs' stated intent is for healing to work very similarly to how it does now — the differences will be under the hood. Keep in mind how relative mana levels are. If I have 130K mana and cast a sequence of spells today which leaves me at 105K, or about 80%, then the goal sounds like if I gear properly for regeneration, that same sequence will leave me at about 80K mana. It will be my responsibility, however, to think more about balancing my stats for desired performance rather than INTELLECT MAKE MUNGO MORE BIGGER.

Don't take separate pieces of information out of context and panic! Every variable is going to be changed to the extent that the equation remains the same. If you can't visualize how, for example, Spirit will play a much more active role in resource provision, maybe you should wait until Blizzard has a working model and offer your feedback then.
85 Orc Shaman
5985
But no, you have to make healers life miserable, and you have to change a core RPG thing and you even have the guts to say its for "clarification·.

If you want to believe that, you can, but you are going to remain "miserable." ;)

The devs' stated intent is for healing to work very similarly to how it does now — the differences will be under the hood. Keep in mind how relative mana levels are. If I have 130K mana and cast a sequence of spells today which leaves me at 105K, or about 80%, then the goal sounds like if I gear properly for regeneration, that same sequence will leave me at about 80K mana. It will be my responsibility, however, to think more about balancing my stats for desired performance rather than INTELLECT MAKE MUNGO MORE BIGGER.

Don't take separate pieces of information out of context and panic! Every variable is going to be changed to the extent that the equation remains the same. If you can't visualize how, for example, Spirit will play a much more active role in resource provision, maybe you should wait until Blizzard has a working model and offer your feedback then.


That is wrong, they dont want the equation to remain the same, they are actually changing that because they want to change the equation so that we dont have so much power (because apparently to them we have too much power) at later tiers.

You haven't read a thing about what's been said, please dont missinform.

Funny how many WARRIORS come to talk about the HEALING changes and spread bad info about it.
Edited by Gromahk on 11/21/2011 11:15 AM PST
90 Dwarf Warrior
12920
11/15/2011 11:08 AMPosted by Nethaera
You’ll still feel as powerful as you do today. Intellect and Sprit will just do different things.

Like I said, Gromahk, you can keep yourself all worked up if you want to.
85 Night Elf Druid
6920
11/21/2011 10:45 AMPosted by Aedilhild
But no, you have to make healers life miserable, and you have to change a core RPG thing and you even have the guts to say its for "clarification·.

If you want to believe that, you can, but you are going to remain "miserable." ;)

The devs' stated intent is for healing to work very similarly to how it does now — the differences will be under the hood. Keep in mind how relative mana levels are. If I have 130K mana and cast a sequence of spells today which leaves me at 105K, or about 80%, then the goal sounds like if I gear properly for regeneration, that same sequence will leave me at about 80K mana. It will be my responsibility, however, to think more about balancing my stats for desired performance rather than INTELLECT MAKE MUNGO MORE BIGGER.

Don't take separate pieces of information out of context and panic! Every variable is going to be changed to the extent that the equation remains the same. If you can't visualize how, for example, Spirit will play a much more active role in resource provision, maybe you should wait until Blizzard has a working model and offer your feedback then.


The point is, you can fix that by changing all regeneration talents to run off of spirit instead of max intellect. It's probably even a good change, I would say. Taking a way a big player warm and fuzzy (like it or not, it's not just healers that like to see Health/Mana pools go up), for little to no actual benefit simply makes no sense.

The other side of the coin and why people are upset is that it looks like it's going to be more of the same, as was in T11, that is, content balanced almost entirely around healer mana pools, which is something that quite frankly puts most of the pressure on the healer, as that is something we can actively control.

I'm expecting 5.0 Heroics to be pretty faceroll, but I'm also expecting 5.0 LFR difficulty raids (which are intended to move up to Normal raids) to have few if any hard enrage timers, but the point of failure is again, healer mana. It's just an exercise in frustration, and it's one that doesn't need to be there. If you only intend healers to be able to last for X amount of time with X gear, set an enrage timer for that time, or something close to it.
90 Dwarf Warrior
12920
11/21/2011 11:30 AMPosted by Karmaze
The other side of the coin and why people are upset is that it looks like it's going to be more of the same, as was in T11, that is, content balanced almost entirely around healer mana pools, which is something that quite frankly puts most of the pressure on the healer, as that is something we can actively control.

As I posted a few pages back, I don't agree that Tier 11 was difficult chiefly due to healer mana — as evidenced by Blizzard's big walkbacks in April and September, the content was simply too difficult for most players, and no reasonable increase of mana could have prevented most failures of a given raid's output or positioning. The two concepts were introduced at the same time, yes, and stricter resource management poleaxed raiders accustomed to more lenient encounters; but considering how much easier it is for average players to run Tier 11 in i346 gear, with nerfs but the same management rules in effect, causation doesn't seem likely.


Taking a way a big player warm and fuzzy (like it or not, it's not just healers that like to see Health/Mana pools go up), for little to no actual benefit simply makes no sense.

The benefits have already been laid out, and they're hard to argue against: regeneration can easily substitute for resource maximums, and eliminating a catch-all stat prevents design from being stifled. So if a healer performs almost exactly like he did before the change, then the only difference is an arbitrary number defining a blue bar — what's a "warm fuzzy," then, but a sentimental attachment to a byproduct of design? That's a precarious thing for someone to attach himself to.
8 Dwarf Priest
0
i said it dozens of pages ago but people like aedihild just keep coming back regurgitating the same nonsense.

it gets a bit sickening for blizz to come around telling us healing is too powerful AFTER they throw everyone a 30% buff (icc) or AFTER they slam all the raids with insanely heavy nerfs (20% nerf normal mode firelands, 15% nerf heroic firelands). and if those nerfs aren't aimed at making the game easier for healers the implication of the proposed MoP healer "fixes" becomes even more insulting.

players like to see their mana go up. you can yammer until you're blue in the face about how regen can "easily substitute" for resource maximums, but i won't be happy until tank health pools are fixed at an unchanging value if that's the case. let's let haste determine how often they can dodge, k?

now obviously i expect you'll come here trying to say tank health is not a tank resource, and so can't be compared to healer mana. but i'm telling you the two are the same as far as many players are concerned. maybe not most players, but in that sense this change to mana is just changing what isn't broken, change for the sake of change, with no actual point to it.

players like getting more powerful. you can't argue with that, unless you can point me in the direction of a mmo - that's popular - where players start off at max level in great gear, and then proceed to "level down" in the game where their health and mana, etc, drops with each new level progression.

once blizz "fixes" mana to be "fixed in place" its going to INSTANTLY cause player dissatisfaction among what i'd wager to be a not insignificant portion of the player base.

oh and by the way, stop with the "under the hood" remarks as if the playerbase is too stupid or uninterested to care how the game really works. its just another way of insulting people's intelligence when you say "oh this is just going to happen 'under the hood,' you people who are too dumb to get what goes on down there won't notice a thing"
Edited by Kolas on 11/21/2011 5:08 PM PST
90 Troll Priest
14310
Spirit sucks. I need more spirit for my Shadow OS than I do my Discipline MS.

Percentage-based mana regen is fun, Blizzard. Isn't that what you want?
71 Night Elf Priest
560
Spirit sucks. I need more spirit for my Shadow OS than I do my Discipline MS.

Percentage-based mana regen is fun, Blizzard. Isn't that what you want?


Blizzard doesn't know what they want. Hence why we are having a healing overhaul once again.
90 Draenei Shaman
5940
If we run out of mana at a faster rate than we do now, I can't imagine me being able to heal through stupid anymore. :(
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