Raid healing is more stressful now.

100 Dwarf Warrior
13735
11/21/2011 05:07 PMPosted by Kolas
players like to see their mana go up. you can yammer until you're blue in the face about how regen can "easily substitute" for resource maximums, but i won't be happy until tank health pools are fixed at an unchanging value if that's the case.

Apart from the fact that Stamina-stacking was and is unfun, Tank health could remain the same if armor and some form of additional magic resistance scaled to make up for the lack of stuffing that health provides for damage that can't be or isn't mitigated/avoided. One potential problem arising might be an ironic return to binary health, though, since bigger heals would refill the static bar more quickly; but for bosses to threaten tanks, higher damage would need to pass through to health.

Oh, no! I just accepted and earnestly explored your premise. Whatever will you do?


oh and by the way

I think you need to step away from the game for a couple of days. Chamomile tea soothes you! Mmmm.
100 Night Elf Druid
16630
11/21/2011 08:48 PMPosted by Aedilhild
Apart from the fact that Stamina-stacking was and is unfun, Tank health could remain the same if armor and some form of additional magic resistance scaled to make up for the lack of stuffing that health provides for damage that can't be or isn't mitigated/avoided.


Blizzard said that they wanted armor values between armor types (i.e., cloth vs plate, etc) to be closer than they were pre-Cata, which is why they changed those values with 4.0.1 release.

Also, armor value acts differently than stamina/dodge/mastery. As you somewhat noted at, armor works to protect players from physical damage, but does nothing to mitigate incoming magic damage. Blizzard would have to attach additional magic damage avoidance to dodge, parry or mastery to offset a change like this.

I agree w/another poster that it is both appalling and perplexing that Blizzard has spent an entire expansion--after implementing an expansion where most healers were severely undertuned--buffing healing classes (minus holy pallies this patch and resto druids getting a nerf to WG next patch) and healers in general (including druids/pallies w/the crit buff) *and* significantly nerfing raid content...only to decide that healers are now too powerful and need a change like this to keep them in line.

Nethaera responded in her post that this change will not make healers any less powerful, but the blue post she was referring to said that Blizzard felt that healers are too powerful now...which implies incoming nerfs (which is what this change feels like, regardless of whether or not it actually is). There seems to be some sort of discrepancy there.

The bottom line is that some healers aren't too keen on any new healing changes (again) after the challenges of healing at the beginning of the expansion and finally being in a comfortable place with healing as it is currently.
Edited by Celista on 11/21/2011 10:46 PM PST
85 Orc Shaman
5985
You’ll still feel as powerful as you do today. Intellect and Sprit will just do different things.

Like I said, Gromahk, you can keep yourself all worked up if you want to.


The keyword there is "feel".
They said that in response to them taking from us our progression stat.

So, now you take sentence out of context and try to prove something with that, right?

They said they were doing this because we are saling too much (even when dps scale better), which means we will scale worse, they are not doing this so that we remain the same. Do a little thinking before replying.

You clearly are trolling here.
Edited by Gromahk on 11/22/2011 3:12 AM PST
85 Orc Shaman
5985
Spirit sucks. I need more spirit for my Shadow OS than I do my Discipline MS.

Percentage-based mana regen is fun, Blizzard. Isn't that what you want?


They want us to be powerless so they dont need to be creative when desingnin encounters.

DPS role is easier, but somehow they are trying to fool us saying they increase healing difficulty because they want us to have more "fun" (and some people actually belive them).

DPS scale better, yet somehow they try to fool us into belive we are scaling "too much".

They take threat from being a problem to tanks, but somehow its fun for us to keep more things into account instead of less.

At the end of the day it comes to: If we are powerfull, if we feel like heroes, then they have to actuallyu think when they develop the encounters.

If we are powerless, they can design crappy encounters and make them challenging.
85 Blood Elf Priest
2535
You’ll still feel as powerful as you do today. Intellect and Sprit will just do different things.

Like I said, Gromahk, you can keep yourself all worked up if you want to.


Problem, you see, is that i want to feel as powerfull as next expansion. Not remain as powerfull as today.

Actually that quote is absurd because the state we are now, which in their view is godly-imbalanced and overpowered, is what caused the change in first place.

So, yeah.
Edited by Hoylshadow on 11/22/2011 4:43 AM PST
86 Tauren Druid
11230
I haven't read all 53 pages of comments, so if this has already been mentioned, I apologize in advance.

My main concern with this change is a big reduction in flexibility. I'm expecting that with this change, Spirit will become a primary stat and no longer available as a re-forging option.

One of the few additions that I've enjoyed from Cata (and I do mean few) has been reforging. As a healer, a larger mana pool can mean less regen required for a given fight. Couple that with the crazy regen trinkets available in this expansion (Shard of Woe & Jaws of Defeat, in particular), Spirit has become a viable 'knob' to adjust to maximize Mastery and healing output. In a game where developers insist that fun-factor is their highest priority, Spirit has become a 'fun knob' for the min/max-ing folks to tweak. For example, it's not unusual to see max geared Resto Druids sporting 'Shard' and 'Jaws' with Spirit as low as 1400-ish and Mastery at 20+ %. IMO, character flexibility makes WoW fun and this proposed change is just another step in the unending slog of dumbing-down the game.

Additionally, given the remarkable dearth of Spirit in cloth gear in Cata (which inexplicably continues in 4.3), I see a bunch of screaming Priests in Blizzards future, unless they start adding Spirit to cloth again and/or keep Spirit as a reforgeable stat.

My $0.02

90 Blood Elf Priest
10945
11/22/2011 09:19 AMPosted by Hoodathunk
Additionally, given the remarkable dearth of Spirit in cloth gear in Cata (which inexplicably continues in 4.3), I see a bunch of screaming Priests in Blizzards future, unless they start adding Spirit to cloth again and/or keep Spirit as a reforgeable stat.

In their future?

Hell, they've been dealing with them for months now! However one of the problems when you play a class with a spec called 'Discipline' is a tendency to become meek, submissive, and attracted to bondage at a rate higher than the norm. So we're not very loud screamers.
90 Night Elf Priest
11020
I think we whined kind of quietly lol

We are priest...hear us roar!
100 Night Elf Druid
14890
11/22/2011 09:30 AMPosted by Kitsueie
However one of the problems when you play a class with a spec called 'Discipline' is a tendency to become meek, submissive, and attracted to bondage at a rate higher than the norm. So we're not very loud screamers.


Oh you can scream plenty loud, it's just that the ball gag gets in the way - or you just do your screaming in the soundproof basement. <EG>
Edited by Keiyra on 11/22/2011 9:44 AM PST
100 Night Elf Hunter
11765
IMO.

This will not happen. Or if it does after another 500-600k people will leave and they will revert this change.

Blizzard has no idea what they want to do.

I suspect there is warring camps in the Blizzard offices on what needs to be done to reverse the loss of players.

Trust me huge changes to healers is not one of them Blizzard.

All we need is more people deciding that they do not want to heal.
100 Dwarf Warrior
13735
11/21/2011 10:44 PMPosted by Celista
I agree w/another poster that it is both appalling and perplexing that Blizzard has spent an entire expansion--after implementing an expansion where most healers were severely undertuned--buffing healing classes (minus holy pallies this patch and resto druids getting a nerf to WG next patch) and healers in general (including druids/pallies w/the crit buff) *and* significantly nerfing raid content...only to decide that healers are now too powerful and need a change like this to keep them in line.

I guess that's why I'm trying to draw a distinction between concept and execution. If, under new mechanics, properly geared healers have enough mana to maintain spellcasting demanded by a given encounter, nothing has been lost. But the devs can trip up on execution no matter what they implement — even without limitations to mana, class changes between now and 5.0 could lead to problematic imbalances. My bottom line is to take Blizzard at face value now, respecting ideas revealed to the community (offering criticism appropriate to the level of information provided), and hold the devs' feet to the fire during testing.
Edited by Aedilhild on 11/22/2011 10:25 AM PST
100 Night Elf Priest
8575
My biggest question is what brought about this change? Its getting tiresome to relearn over and over again just do what you need to, then leave it alone. Because these dungeon run get so repetitive, a challenge is OK knowing you will soon gear up and be able to relax and enjoy the run more in time. Have large mana or unexpected perks from combining things should not be penalized. There are times when I was glad I had a huge mana reserve because the group was either new or very under geared. I just don't like the way its sounding that ill run out of mana because someone stood in fire to long or didn't cc when they should have. That's placing allot on healers because we ALWAYS take the blame. I cant tell you how many times I've been kicked out of runs because I've been told learn to heal, everyone will say "I'm glad now I can get a better group", but in reality it hurts and feels very unfair. So my point is just stop changing things. I feels more like a bad game than a make believe place you can get lost in when everything keeps changing. Could you imagine if this happen to you in real life. Your gas peddle is now on the left and brake is on the right, gas goes in the backseat and passengers now ride in the trunk. Anyway just my thoughts

Trin
90 Night Elf Priest
11020
I agree Trin.

I wish they would focus changes more on the encounters themselves.
Think up some new, cool challenges for the entire party.

I want to be able to enjoy a challenging encounter. I feel like healing right now is mostly where it needs to be. It's challenging enough to keep it from getting boring. Some classes are finally getting some much needed buffs in 4.3...
Throw some better gear in the raids for healers and let us be properly rewarded for our jobs.

We have 200+ people in our guild and only 2 regular raid healers. We lost 17 healers in the first few months of Cata. Some rerolled and some quit the game altogether.
I am considering going back to my hunter. I am willing to give 5.0 a try as a healer before I decide, but I suspect things are going to be as ugly as they were the first few months of Cata.
I just don't have it in me to repeat it.
85 Human Priest
5860
I am hoping that this change will not go through because I personally didn't like the Cataclysm approach to healing. One example was gearing in Heroic dungeons where I felt personally responsible for each and every wipe suffered by my groups. Yes, I know that is part of healing and I have grown a pretty thick skin as a healer with 6 plus years experience, but never before have I felt that the deck has been stacked against me as much as I had during the open of Cata. I actually stopped queuing up for pugs and ran only guild runs because I felt incapable of keeping a random group alive while prior to Cata I took pride in my ability to get a group of new players through a dungeon so that we could be properly rewarded. Even after I had geared up through the 1st wicket of progression, think it was 339 or 345 ilevel, I found myself leaving groups if a tank had low health or a dps was putting out subpar damage. Before Cata I didn't give a darn and knew that I could get us through regardless of our groups makeup or abilities. After I had gotten what gear I needed to be raid ready I would not queue up for dungeons unless I needed valor, now I won't even queue for valor, or an item upgrade. I don't care about a goody bag or selling boe valor items on the auction house because the experience of Cataclysm dungeon healing was not fun and made me feel incompetent. I will not heal a dungeon for anyone, guild included, and if I do it will be for me and only me - to hell with anyone else and if you do not accept my "kick vote" I will AFK until I am kicked. Does this sound like a fun or a successful healing model Blizzard? You destroyed someone that would heal "anyone" regardless of gear or experience in favor of your new healing model - How many potentially great healers did we lose because of your willingness to destroy healing so that you could cut corners on development and then brag on forums that LFG healing is hard?

Now you want to make our mana bar into an energy bar and say everything is going to be alright? Crap, crap crap and crap - I don't believe it for one minute and you can't blame me for not believing.
Edited by Zayni on 11/22/2011 4:13 PM PST
71 Night Elf Priest
560
The bottom line here is that Cataclysm in terms of intellect mechanics was a total failure. It's unfair for them to change the entire system for Cata and tell us everything will be good, then do the same once again with the next expansion. There is no consistency and no focus. If this isn't being jerked around idk what is. I don't want my mana bar to be a limited fixed number and as a paying customer who has sank 1000 dollars into this game my opinion, just like everyone else matters. What's hilarious is fellow players who try to justify our opinions not mattering demonstrating how dependent and trusting they are to corporate entities. It's as crazy as the women in the early 1900s who fought against suffrage and their own self interest. The Customer is always right, and I have seen too many well articulated concerns here to dismiss them as ignorant.
Edited by Redstar on 11/22/2011 4:17 PM PST
90 Night Elf Druid
12225
More limitations on heals, self heals... is this the beginning of the end of the healer class? Homoginazation taken to the extreme? Will, one day--not too far off--5 man instances be "group" instances without designated roles? I wonder...

100 Night Elf Priest
16620
11/22/2011 09:56 AMPosted by Ariktu
I suspect there is warring camps in the Blizzard offices on what needs to be done to reverse the loss of players.


I've suspected the same for awhile as well. Not due to loss of player subs per se, but because of what feels like (to me) a seemingly bipolar approach on Blizzard's part in regards to game direction, overall vision, and class changes/design...just my perception, anyway.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3675
Does anyone else feel like the changes to intellect aren't scary at all? I do not feel any worry over this. Ya'll are !@#$ting your pants about it.
85 Draenei Shaman
8815
Difficulty in choices = What developers think is fun. The game's evolution reflects this.

So if difficulty in choices = stressful for you, time to move on.

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