Raid healing is more stressful now.

85 Blood Elf Priest
11/27/2011 09:56 PMPosted by Andalya
on a different note, this thread hasn't gotten anything from the blues recently not even a 'hey we're listening", which is very disheartening

I'd say it is recurrent.

It's not the first time a bombshell is dropped and followed by a complete vanish from Dev's.

And everytime this happens, it means they are going to do it anyway, regardless of anything one says.

Dark times ahead.
90 Worgen Priest
I did not enjoy cata healing. I healed Vanilla as priest like most everyone else, BC and Wotlk as druid and Cata as all four classes. At least in heroics arguably BC was a harder xpack to heal so I do not think that difficulty was the issue more the style of it.

Remember trying to trade chat for pug to do shadow labs? Not a pretty instance to do without coordination. I loved Karazhan. I loved the gateing where you had to do the heroics for your key. That stuff was fun to me but I guess I'm not like most people.

edit: I realize this is off topic a bit as this thread is about raid healing. I didn't raid heal this xpack for the first time and can't comment on that aspect of things.
Edited by Onionbooty on 11/28/2011 5:51 AM PST
2 Goblin Priest
The core problem with the Cataclysm healing model, in a nutshell:

A slow, "efficient" heal that you have to spam endlessly makes healing obnoxious.

The whole problem is that the developers actively tried to ensure OOMs if healers didn't use their piss-poor "efficient" heals. The reason I use quotes is that I challenge the idea that it's efficient to be stuck on a long cast for terrible healing output. What we should do, in my opinion, is go back to the healing methodology where basically cast time = power. The longer the cast time, the stronger the heal will be. That method makes sense, and it leads to a more intuitive and more (in my opinion) enjoyable raid experience.

Bottom line: this expansion has lead to all healers being tied even more than ever before to their stupid cast bars, which makes us feel MORE disconnected from the action, not less. If you want to make healing "fun" like you claim, developers, let's see a move back toward the previous model. Healing just isn't fun in this cataclysm environment.
85 Night Elf Druid
So let me get this strait. Your adding Disney characters as classes, Pokemon, and taking away my mana pool? Way to cater to the 8 yr olds. Are the raid bosses gonna do the care bear stare? Healing is not stressful at all anymore its boring, its predictable, and we as healers have to find some concept of fun to continue to do what we do. But i bet the mage is getting huge buff come 5.0. On the bright side you gave me a reason to leave with out anyone blaming me.
52 Goblin Hunter
raid healing is stressfull, because with 1/2 your mana you save the entire group. And the best part is that the group wont ever know that it was healers that saved raid.

blame the tank. heh
85 Draenei Shaman
So this thread is dead, then? We've given up on a dev ever popping their heads in here again?

I think I read a post somewhere, something like
It seems like Blizzard wants healers to be on the forums what they are in game: Put on a dress, shut up, and stand in the back.

Personally I felt pretty damn special when we got a few blue posts, as I can't even remember the last time I've seen a blue post in the Healer forum.
100 Night Elf Druid
So this thread is dead, then? We've given up on a dev ever popping their heads in here again?


well its been dead for 5 days, I hope the devs don't think that if we stop posting here that means we stopped caring.

I think most have been busy trying to gear up their alts to prepare for this change, or looking into other games.

we haven't gotten any further info or answers to our questions, putting a new patch in isn't going to make any of us forget about this, just a temporary distraction.
86 Blood Elf Paladin
I am hoping that this change will not go through because I personally didn't like the Cataclysm approach to healing. One example was gearing in Heroic dungeons where I felt personally responsible for each and every wipe suffered by my groups. Yes, I know that is part of healing and I have grown a pretty thick skin as a healer with 6 plus years experience, but never before have I felt that the deck has been stacked against me as much as I had during the open of Cata. I actually stopped queuing up for pugs and ran only guild runs because I felt incapable of keeping a random group alive while prior to Cata I took pride in my ability to get a group of new players through a dungeon so that we could be properly rewarded. Even after I had geared up through the 1st wicket of progression, think it was 339 or 345 ilevel, I found myself leaving groups if a tank had low health or a dps was putting out subpar damage. Before Cata I didn't give a darn and knew that I could get us through regardless of our groups makeup or abilities. After I had gotten what gear I needed to be raid ready I would not queue up for dungeons unless I needed valor, now I won't even queue for valor, or an item upgrade. I don't care about a goody bag or selling boe valor items on the auction house because the experience of Cataclysm dungeon healing was not fun and made me feel incompetent. I will not heal a dungeon for anyone, guild included, and if I do it will be for me and only me - to hell with anyone else and if you do not accept my "kick vote" I will AFK until I am kicked. Does this sound like a fun or a successful healing model Blizzard? You destroyed someone that would heal "anyone" regardless of gear or experience in favor of your new healing model - How many potentially great healers did we lose because of your willingness to destroy healing so that you could cut corners on development and then brag on forums that LFG healing is hard?

Now you want to make our mana bar into an energy bar and say everything is going to be alright? Crap, crap crap and crap - I don't believe it for one minute and you can't blame me for not believing.

This is why i almost exclusively raid heal. I really dont like healing in 5 mans unless i completely overgear them. Everytime i get a undergeared tank, tank in dps gear, dps who is too low in 5 mans; I just want to cry. I think on this character for 4.2 I ran a heroic dungeon about once or twice a month. I find healing in raids just more fun and much more relaxing. In raids, if a dps is standing in crap and dies, usually people dont blame healers; but, in 5 mans, everything, even a tank who doesn't understand what a tank cooldown is or when to use a tank cooldown, is blamed on the healer.
86 Blood Elf Paladin
After reading and rereading the Blue posts on this, I understand what they are doing. If the reasons they gave for doing it are complete and correct, it remains a valid question why they took so long to come to this point. I suspect the new class for MoP and continuing to make things easier for the developers are in fact actual reasons as well, and explain why now is the time they pulled the trigger.

But in assessing this I think it really comes down to how well they do it, and whether they get it right to start, or whether we will be forced, assuming we remain, to suffer through another lengthy period of correcting errors that hurt our gaming experience in the meantime. They will eventually get it right either way I am sure, but our game play experience will greatly differ depending on how well they do their job with it before 5.0.

Should they do this well and properly, we will basically be presented with a form of character development in which we weigh, balance and contrast our need for bigger heals (more intellect) versus our need for more lengthy sustainability (more spirit). It is a simple balancing as you think best of two now totally different stats, with Spirit now being more nearly of the value of Intellect. But the fact will be the relative value will change as the proportion of one to the other does, and depending on the encounter and your healing assignment. I forsee the potential for the more skilled and patient healers to more consistently do better as a result as measured by the meters.

I hope and pray Blizzard truly spends a lot of time and effort to get this right, and to balance it truly fairly across the classes and specs. Therein will be its success or failure imo.

I did not take the time to fully comprehend this before posting a number of times earlier. On the other hand, Blizzard's track record has been to ignore feedback on the ptr, to release the patches live despite not addressing valid and clearly posted concerns and issues, only to then take lengthy times to correct that which should have been corrected on the ptr. If they avoid that and get it right, this looks to be an improvement, now that I better understand it, or at least think I do.

I understand what they are trying to do but they pretty much already had that system in place through every expansion but cataclysm when they got rid of spellpower (or its predecesors in BC and classic) except on weapons and replaced with int. Int and spirit worked together through BC and WOLK in regenerating mana; though, some classes used mp5 instead of spirit. mp5 never scaled with int. Now they are trying to turn int into a spellpower only stat (with some crit benefit) and no scaling mana bar. This change is no different really from reintroducing spellpower as a stat, decoupling mana regen from both int and max mana and still allowing max mana to scale with int.

Personally I dont think there is anything wrong with the current regen model but the new proposed model by blizzard doesn't just hurt healers it also hurts dps. All mana based dps have some sort of mana regen on a set cooldown. As their int gets bigger they need to use that cooldown less and less. This change would mean a dps is constantly using their regen cooldown after x time where x will be a static number based on buffs from raid comp.

If blizzard really thinks healers scale too powerful they should get rid of int as the end all stat by either not allowing classes to gem for primary stats only secondary stats or go back to int spellpower system. They can then change spirit regen formula to not depend on int and than get rid of all max mana regen in the game. In this way int does not factor into regen at all.

Another option would be just getting rid of max mana regen and changing spirit regen formula to not include int.
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