How does everyone feel about the MoP...

90 Tauren Druid
18155
I am assuming that the description on Malfurion's Gift is a typo, or else why on earth would any Resto druid take a talent that increases the CD on Tranquility by 5 minutes.

Edited: Whoops, it is a spell, not a talent, but the same comment applies.
Edited by Pipikaula on 11/23/2011 11:30 AM PST
90 Human Warrior
12785
I lose stuff. I look at the warrior talent tree and I think of how limited I am, how I lose tools and abilities from what I have right now, and how I've lost stuff from a year ago.

I lose shockwave for 5 long grinding levels to 90, and am supposed to be glad to get it back, and get nothing new.

I lose intercept. I lose the stun associated with my charge if I want a bad equivalent to intercept back.

My self-healing talents are all mutually exclusive. This sucks.

I'm losing Concussive blow, something I've had for YEARS, only to have it replaced with another stun that does no damage.

I see a new cool ability in disrupting shout, but oh !@#$ look it's mutually exclusive with something else I've had for YEARS and that I rely on.

Here is what I feel about seeing the new talents:

Lackluster. Limiting. Sucky. I lose things I rely on, and am given less.

You're changing the game too much. This talent makeup is going to suck if this stays the way it is. I'm not going to be excited about seeing the new expansion, it only defines when things become so stupidly frustrating and different from a game I really used to like a lot that I don't want to play anymore.

I'm really, really tired of my abilities being limited, balanced, and fishhooked into where the developers want them because they feel everything should be balanced around PVP. This is a PVE game. 90% of the content is PVE. Make a fun set of things we can do for PVE and make a whole other tree (like this stupid limited rock/paper/scissors thing you want to give us) the PVP tree.

You know, like Rift. But better.

Leave PVE the hell alone. Put the design board down and back away. The developers seem to have George Lucas syndrome - they keep SCREWING with stuff that people liked until it's not what people liked anymore.

Han shot first. Warbringer was fine before it was nerfed for PVP.
85 Undead Priest
0
Thanks for the post Bashiok

I think what makes releasing information like this so challenging is that we don't truly know what is being removed/taken away so that it becomes a challenge to see what exactly these talents will do relative to what we have now. The talents by themselves are a different story but once you put all of the skills listed out with them, and leave out key spells/abilities, it becomes a real challenge to give the proper feedback. All i see for priests right now is what's missing and the information on the talents themselves only brings up questions about core abililities rather than what is being added. I think if we could get some sense as to your vision of each class and spec, while looking at this info, it would help a great deal. I.e. if you plan to take away virtually all heals from Spriests (outside of Flash Heal), well, that obviously would and could change my mind about what kind of value these talents may have for me.

I've looked into a number of trees so far and my inital response is....lukewarm at best for a few different reasons.

First and formost, sticking core class abilities at the end of the tree (lvl90) = bad, horrible design. Shockwave/Bladestorm e.g. shouldn't be the 'new shiny toy' we get at 90 seeings as how we've had it for some time now and taking it away now only makes it feel as if Warriors were 'nerfed' and have nothing new to look forward to. Same with Vampiric Embrace (or whatever you're calling it now) and a number of other core abilities whereas Mages, Shaman, Hunters e.g. have something 'new' too look to at lvl 90 (whether they are good or bad I'll defer judgement on). I'm also not really a fan of having basic skills we've had now for years turn into Talents. Psychic Scream is my 'choice' at lvl 15? But yet we then get Psychic Horror for free? Huh?

My second issue is that some talents that are 'choices' really won't wind up being so at all:
From Darkness Comes Light vs. Dark Archangel. Someone who is better at math than I will crunch some numbers and decide that ultimately one will win out over the other, making the loser a waste of time. While i'm sure the intent with this 'choice' was designed to be based on playstyle etc., in the end, one will get taken by the vast majority of players and the other will languish and ultimately get redesigned/moved etc. I realize that the cookie cutter problem will persist here/there but this one had me scratching my head a bit as it's clear that the time put into one or the other will just ultimately be wasted. Swapping Archangel and Serendippity imo makes two real choices that I think would be more sense.

In short, give us a bit more flavor about the intent of class design, and re-think lvl 90 talents in a way where it's not just our same old talents we've seen now for years. To think i'd be at all excited about Shockwave or VE now is ignoring what has made the pre-release of expansion info so fun...thinking about the new fun stuff, not the old boring skills.
90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
I'm reserving judgement until it's released, but skimming through it, as an experienced player of all three Warlock specs I quickly made a list that would be optimal in PvE. (Though, it's not final and values could change). The only talent I couldn't decide on was a toss-up between Kil'jaeden's Cunning and Mannoroths Fury, though I'd probably take Kil'jaedens Cunning.

I don't see how this will prevent cookie-cutter specs, especially for Hybrids. There is almost no choice in talents if I were to be a Blood DK or a Prot Paladin.

This being said, I'm basing this off values that may or may not change and talents that I don't have a full understanding of yet.

90 Troll Druid
11045
Atonement seems missing. Archangel and Divine Star being in the same tier for priests kinda sucks. I see inspiration is also gone. No access to darkness means the extreme haste build is no longer available, which was quite useful for raid healing disc priests.

Tier 4 seems purely PVP oriented, which means that if you're not intending on pvping this tier is a waste of points, there are no good choices, only choices that don't suck due to relative levels of worthlessness.

A little underwhelmed. The sparsity of these talents means that players will expect more value from them, every choice should feel like it is worthwhile, when they don't then that means that once a player hits a non-sucky tier looks ahead and see the suckfest coming they will realise that they have 30 levels before something that might be good is available.

So for priests tier 3 presents a tough choice, possibly a good thing, if it can be changed on the fly between fights this could be interesting and fun. Tier 4 is marginally useful if you're pvping, next to useless outside of it. Tiers 1, 2, 5 and 6 seem to live up to the promise of fun talents that will suit different playstyles.
Edited by Xio on 11/23/2011 11:35 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Priest
8925
We wanted to take a moment to give some context to why the calculators were posted, and the permanence of the data shown. A lot of times we say things like "not final" and "may change" as verbal wiggle room should we decide we need to go a different direction, or are unable to complete something in time. In this case of the Mists of Pandaria calculator data is essentially pre-alpha, and will absolutely change in many ways.

It was important for us to get this stuff in front of you as soon as possible though (and as a work in progress as it is) to get your feedback, which will in no small part influence that change. We also wanted to present everything on a single page to give you a fuller context for the initial talent changes we announced at BlizzCon, and to see how the overall structure of core abilities, spec abilities, and talents will function, with concrete examples.

The calculator contains elements that are experimental, still in the process of implementation, or in some cases outright failed experiments that we already intend to revise or replace. Odds are good that if it looks like we’ve forgotten some critical piece of a particular class toolkit, it’s either accounted for elsewhere, or simply a data glitch (e.g., Prayer of Healing is currently absent from the calculator – we are not taking Prayer of Healing away from priests, and Devastate for warriors probably won't sunder armor 453%). Our hope is that revealing the calculator in this state will shed light on the philosophy behind our talent overhaul, and let you get a sense of how pieces of your core rotational gameplay, such as Hot Streak, Riptide, or Sudden Doom, fit into the new system.

The different classes are also at very different stages of design and implementation, and the fact that some mechanics changes we discussed at BlizzCon and in recent Q&As are not yet present does not mean that we have abandoned those ideas.

Any and all feedback is very welcome, but please keep all of the above in mind when considering the information in the talent calculator, and please keep feedback consolidated in the Mists of Pandaria forum:


Any news on what the new lvl 10 Beast mastery ability will be?
85 Blood Elf Warlock
4480
The Warlock ones and new spells look amazing; and Death Knights are finally getting Enslave undead.
85 Night Elf Druid
5605
Shouldn't we move to the Mists of Pandaria forum now, after Bashiok nicely asking us to? O..o

/shrug
90 Tauren Shaman
9915
It seems to me that the new system accounts for alot. And i like the philosophy.. However.. it seems to abandon some talents that are linked to a specialization.. but have always had a more "optional" feel. Telluric currents and focused insight is a good example of this. Is there any plan to introduce these in another form (glyphs?) or will they go the way of sentry totem?
90 Blood Elf Hunter
10780
In all honesty, I have enjoyed the format of the choices we make customizing our characters in this game very much, from Vanilla through today. I was iffy on the talent changes for cata but it turned out decent. Leveling some characters was intensely frustrating because very important mechanics or abilities that our classes were designed around we simply didn't get until very late in the game (assassinate rogue energy regen comes to mind).

This next set of "talent trees" seems to be going that direction in an even faster and alarming rate. Getting one way to customize my character every 15 levels is NOT fun. No matter what you do there will always be a "best" setup, even with the seemingly balanced talent trees you guys are proposing. Also, I noticed for MM hunters specifically we will be losing extremely central portions of our rotation and playstyle, but keeping a talent almost nobody took? (imp steady shot vs concussive barrage) Important choices should not be baked into the game, otherwise it becomes more and more just like an interactive novel.
Choose your own adventure!
For "beastmaster" turn the page, for "marksman" go to page 46, for "survival" go to page 24.
I feel a little disappointed with the hunter talents atm. They seem less awesome than the other classes. Not really excited for the new talents.
85 Human Priest
4250
Death Knight --> As somebody who plays pvp in blood spec, I am disappointed to see I will lose either vampiric blood or death pact. Definately a nerf there.

Paladins --> I like what I see for Prot pallys in pvp. Prot was seriously lacking in the cc dept., which looks like you are aiming at strengthening them there.

Priests --> This has been my main during Cata, but it will no longer be. Here's why...
1st: Several classes will reduce my healing effects by 25%.
2nd: INT will no longer positively effect my mana pool.
3rd: As many of us stated when you asked for priest class feedback a few months ago, disc priests do not have as much mana regen as other healers. I see no improvement to this in MoP. Did our feedback fall on deaf ears? Please keep in mind that while PvP'ing, especially in areans, we healers have very little time to spend casting damaging spells. Not to mention that we have no mana to waste on offense, as we have to continuously heal ourselves or teammates. Therefore, some of the mana regen offered to us is something we cannot capitalize on nearly as much as we'd like.
In MoP, we'll be spending more mana on healing versus many teams due to the decreased healing effects by 25%. This, coupled with no improvement to our mana regen, means I'll be shelving this toon, most definately. Unless our feedback, this time, does not fall again on deaf ears. Time will tell.

Druid --> Looks complicated. I'll have to spend more time to wrap my mind around the new class changes.
85 Night Elf Hunter
2150
Before I've even had a first glance my feelings about another iteration of the Talent system is that Blizzard developers don't know what they're doing.

Nor do they listen to the gamers.

Why are they asking us now, when they've shown in the past that they'll simply do what they want, disregarding anything we say even when it turns out that we were right and they were wrong?

I didn't want to relearn my classes the last time, especially after taking the time to explain - as did so many other gamers - what was wrong with their changes, but the devs told us we were wrong, they were right and to trust them. I did, that was my mistake. I'm not likely to repeat it.

Now, they're citing our reasons why they shouldn't have gone the route they did, as why they need to change it again. It's cheesy and cheap imho, because it was bad to force everyone into a failed system, and now you want to do it again?

Why should we trust the devs now?
Edited by Dyanaa on 11/23/2011 11:39 AM PST
85 Tauren Druid
9380
It's probably going to be one of those things where I'm going to have to try it out before I pass judgement on it. I'm glad I signed up for the 1-year thing and I'll be able to get in on the beta (never done a beta before). At least then I can offer feedback before it become live.

My "knee jerk" reaction to the trees makes me think that it seems cool on some levels - but I do have to agree with some that even a more reduced tree "feels" like it will give us even less choice in deciding talents - which is contrary to what the devs are saying they want the new trees to be.

I also agree that the less talents available appear to be just as "cookie cutter" as it has ever been.

Time will tell though.
85 Human Priest
4250
11/23/2011 11:33 AMPosted by Stalkings
This next set of "talent trees" seems to be going that direction in an even faster and alarming rate. Getting one way to customize my character every 15 levels is NOT fun.


I could not agree more!!! Sadly, though, many of us voiced this stance, but it fell on deaf ears.
86 Tauren Warrior
7750
is metamorphosis really going to have no CD? is it supposed to be a form like druids have now? switch in and out whenever you want?
bawls
90 Blood Elf Rogue
13660
Druid's Symbiosis is something interesting like a Death Knight's Dark Simulcrum where situational use can be extremely fun and make a fight much easier. It really depends on which ability is given to which person. If a Rogue is given the Druid's Barkskin, and the Druid the Rogue's Cloak of Shadows or something, it may be a bit much (Mid-duration defensive CDs) but it really shouldn't be giving rotational abilities like Shred or Eviscerate.

85 Human Priest
4250
Before I've even had a first glance my feelings about another iteration of the Talent system is that Blizzard developers don't know what they're doing.

Nor do they listen to the gamers.

Why are they asking us now, when they've shown in the past that they'll simply do what they want, disregarding anything we say even when it turns out that we were right and they were wrong?

I didn't want to relearn my classes the last time, especially after taking the time to explain - as did so many other gamers - what was wrong with their changes, but the devs told us we were wrong, they were right and to trust them. I did, that was my mistake. I'm not likely to repeat it.

Now, they're citing our reasons why they shouldn't have gone the route they did, as why they need to change it again. It's cheesy and cheap imho, because it was bad to force everyone into a failed system, and now you want to do it again?

Why should we trust the devs now?


Agreed! This is how I see it....
Devs say they are looking at implementing "FVQ"....they ask for player feedback...players generally say, "No, you should do "ABC"....when the new content is rolled out, it is rolled out with "FVQ". For example, the discipline healing feedback they received a few months ago, regarding mana regen...nothing was done in repsonse to our player feedback.
90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
11/23/2011 11:27 AMPosted by Rhoggarn
The Warlock ones and new spells look amazing; and Death Knights are finally getting Enslave undead.


Agreed.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-calculator#Va!121101

This is the setup that I'd use if it were launched tomorrow. Though doubling the cast time on KJC does seem a little harsh, I'd be happier with a copypasta Spiritwalkers Grace.

Though, MoP Demonology looks amazing, can't wait. Malefic grasp seems an interesting mechanic as does Infernal Embers. Other than that, the changes to Desto/Aff seem kinda meh.
Edited by Awkward on 11/23/2011 11:47 AM PST
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