How does everyone feel about the MoP...

100 Draenei Paladin
11770
I love the thought process. So much win. Look at what we have now, most people have 3-4 talents that they can move around, all the rest are basically "if you don't have these you're a moron". And those 3-4 are hardly game changing, like as a prot warrior, do I go into arms for deep wounds or fury for piercing howl? I basically have ~7 points that I use to get 1 ability.


Now, as any spec, I can do my job without spending ANY talent points, and those talent points let me play my character in different ways. Look at the paladin mobility tier. Do I want to run a little faster all the time I have holy power, a short cd short duration sprint, or a longer CD sprint with some other perk? That's real choice, not "should I make my heals slightly better when I use them on someone else, or reflect a slight amount of spell damage?"


The question, as always, will be "how well does it implement"?
Edited by Helagoth on 11/23/2011 11:45 AM PST
83 Gnome Death Knight
990
Horrible...The entire idea of the expansion just makes me hope for a better PVP option down the road before this comes out

They talk about "cookie cutter' needs to go....So the solution is to make everything cookie cutter. They are not fixing anything, they are just taking away spec options (which allowed you to customize your toon), and in return given crappy 3 choice items for the tiers....And to top it off in some of those tiers are 2 "items" that classes used to HAVE. So really, its not removing cooke cutter, its making everything the same w/ no spec options.
Edited by Kñeebite on 11/23/2011 11:48 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
8535
11/23/2011 11:24 AMPosted by Awkward
I don't see how this will prevent cookie-cutter specs, especially for Hybrids. There is almost no choice in talents if I were to be a Blood DK or a Prot Paladin.


I can't comment on the Blood DK talents, but I disagree with you regarding the Prot Pally talents. I think there are a ton of options! For instance, the level 90 talents: I think it would be tough to choose between Holy Avenger and Divine Purpose.

Thinking in terms of WoG (though you could apply this to SotR): With HA you could spam 3 HP WoGs for 10 seconds. Talk about self healing! And I like Divine Purpose because it would also provide a 3 HP WoG heal, albeit in a more random manner. Whereas HA seems to be more of a spike damage mitigation technique, I think Divine Purpose could be useful for steady diets of damage.

All in all, I'm excited to see how they play out!
Edited by Valpin on 11/23/2011 11:45 AM PST
100 Night Elf Druid
15890
It is intriguing to see the WIP. For the first time in a long time, I am actually excited. Based on @ xvkarbear's awesome post, I put together a spreadsheet visualizing how the talents fall in relation to spells. It almost makes me want to roll a third druid (so you guys had better solve the 10-character cap, I am cross enough that I killed my pally to make Druid #2 - I have no desire to kill more toons. >.<)

For people pulling their hair out - don't fash yourself yet.
70 Human Warlock
900
I'm loving all of these talents. All of the specs will "play" the same but there will be little things to make everyone feel different. The more I look at this, the more I fall in love. :)
90 Human Death Knight
7210
What I like:
-No more cookie cutter builds. although I do expect that some talents will become mandatory. Like runic corruption or runic empowerment will be mandatory wither you be frost or unholy.

-That Talents will be easily interchangeable like glyphs. So i can pull out chilblains when the fight requires me to kite adds or AMZ to help mitigate magic damage for the raid. So wouldn't need a separate spec for a just for one fight like I did during wrath.

What I don't like:
-I know every talent is supposed to be meaningful and fun, and adding more talents will only make talents meaningful and fun harder. The goal is to condense the talent tree down to what is awesome. However, it just seems that a lot is missing. It feels like to me a lot of choices to play like I want to play is being taken away and Blizzard is deciding for me.
Edited by Ceb on 11/23/2011 11:53 AM PST
87 Blood Elf Hunter
6325
Like the OP said, it's a bit too early to tell, but from what I can see so far, it looks more simplistic than a facebook game. Blizz is trying too hard to re-invent the wheel.

The current talent system isn't broken, don't fix it. Just saying.
85 Draenei Hunter
8070
way too pvp oriented. I don't care about pvp, there should be non pvp options at every level.
100 Night Elf Rogue
11950
I realize its still a work in progress but heres my thoughts.
Talents at 60 seem to be useful for pvp but nothing special for pve imo.
Poisons (@75) seem to lean towards pvp. crippling, stun and one that uses gouge and blind? Who uses gouge? All these are useless for pve bosses.
And Killing spree, Vendetta and Shadow Dance get taken away till 90??!
Seems to me to be even more "Cookie Cutter" than ever...
Edited by Marmon on 11/23/2011 11:53 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Rogue
7995
Even in pre alpha stage how could anyone suggest moving the Rogue's last tier ability, which is available to us at level69, to level 90???

You pushed the "philosophy" of more choices with the new talent tree yet in the rogue talent tree you are TAKING abilities away from us.

Sub has Preparation and Shadowstep available to us but in the MoP talent we have to choose one or the other. Improved Recuperate and Cheat Death are also available to us NOW, but the MoP talent we have to choose one or the other.

How did these two even make it as choices in the alpha stage???

Warriors are in the same boat with abilities they have now are now choose 1 or the other and their last tier talents are moved to level90.

Even in alpha stage this is just an insult to both classes.
14 Night Elf Hunter
130
I don't like changes. I had a hard time to cope with healing in cata and now again a total revamp of the spec and the talents. Druids at one lvl no matter what they choose turn into a cat? At least you should give choices that would represent the spec. Or can we just play all three at the same time? You might as well just forget talents and give us more of everything as we lvl. That would make the game easy now.

Talents have always been based on the spec. If that changes we might as well not have them.
I like the theme of what you are trying to do- I think it will be a balance nightmare though, particularly for PvP- its the very definition of cherry picking hybrid build balance issues from the past. I do like the idea that they are all 'interesting choices' in each tier, but I think the traps you are going to have to avoid falling into during the design phase is either having the talents themselves overly situational or there is going to be 1 that is just the no-brainer in that tier (thus bringing back the cookie cutter spec).

My one feedback from across all the trees (I alts from each class) is that is seems some trees have really cool and unique lvl 90 talents (DKs, locks, etc.) and some are just like 'meh'. Mages getting 3 flavors of poly at lvl 90 doesn't really excite me as something at the top of our tree.

In contrast, Warriors get to choose from 1 new talent (avatar) and 2 iconic, super awesome talents in shockwave and bladestorm. This is a good tier and choice example.

I like the WCIII hero powers overall, and I think you should shoot for the lvl 90 abilities to be powerful/interesting talents. I'd like to say to myself when I ding lvl 90 'holy crap! I am a mountain king! vs 'wee, i can poly 2 people'...
100 Night Elf Rogue
11950
Even in pre alpha stage how could anyone suggest moving the Rogue's last tier ability, which is available to us at level69, to level 90???

You pushed the "philosophy" of more choices with the new talent tree yet in the rogue talent tree you are TAKING abilities away from us.

Sub has Preparation and Shadowstep available to us but in the MoP talent we have to choose one or the other. Improved Recuperate and Cheat Death are also available to us NOW, but the MoP talent we have to choose one or the other.

How did these two even make it as choices in the alpha stage???

Warriors are in the same boat with abilities they have now are now choose 1 or the other and their last tier talents are moved to level90.

Even in alpha stage this is just an insult to both classes.


Agreed!!
85 Blood Elf Rogue
7995
In contrast, Warriors get to choose from 1 new talent (avatar) and 2 iconic, super awesome talents in shockwave and bladestorm. This is a good tier and choice example.

I like the WCIII hero powers overall, and I think you should shoot for the lvl 90 abilities to be powerful/interesting talents. I'd like to say to myself when I ding lvl 90 'holy crap! I am a mountain king! vs 'wee, i can poly 2 people'...


So it doesn't bother you that these "totally awesome" abilities that a warrior gets at level 69 is now pushed back to level 90???
90 Night Elf Druid
0
It looks interesting so far. Some of the abilities look very promising and the layout seems right.

Plus not having to pick passive talents is nice imo. Lets us focus on abilities that will be helpful. As such i like how the abilities on each tier have a similar theme like healing,tanking or dps. So no matter which you pick they all seem useful to some extent.
90 Undead Warrior
10265
On the Shadow Priest side I feel a little down. Many of the token abilities just seem to be missing. Maybe it's the intention that Vampiric Dominance completely replaces Vampiric Embrace? It is certainly a more powerful 'direct' benefit but the raid-wide trickle of heals is still useful and signature to the class. Shadow Orb mechanics are not specifically noted (I know they were said to be up in the air), Devouring Plague is absent, the number of Shadowy Apparitions is nebulous, Masochism is missing leaving Dispersion the only mana recharge now... I take all this as the Shadow Spec isn't as far along as some of the others seem to be and in a larger state of flux, but the missing abilities kinda makes me wary of what direction you seem to be taking Shadow and at first glance it feels a bit weird.

I kind of like the new Prot Warrior direction though. It feels really weird and heart-attack-inducing to see Shield Block at 90 Rage cost (!!!) and Devastate having no cost at all feels kinda funny but contrary to how I feel about the information given about Shadow I'm liking the way Prot is shaping up.
85 Tauren Paladin
9805
speed of light talent seems to have incorrect labeling for each effect.

with paladins it seems like I will spend far too much time with my class trainer switching talents around. Am I still forced to pick useless skils to get to the higher talents?

I really like veneration.
Edited by Rahkarn on 11/23/2011 12:01 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
12135
I lose stuff. I look at the warrior talent tree and I think of how limited I am, how I lose tools and abilities from what I have right now, and how I've lost stuff from a year ago.

I lose shockwave for 5 long grinding levels to 90, and am supposed to be glad to get it back, and get nothing new.
Yes, because normal dungeons are hard enough that not having shockwave will horribly cripple you.

I lose intercept. I lose the stun associated with my charge if I want a bad equivalent to intercept back.
Look at the tooltip for charge, it still stuns.

My self-healing talents are all mutually exclusive. This sucks.
From a prot perspective, your choices are your existing good self healing ability, a combination of the !@#$ty self-heal you sometimes dumped points in and an arms talent you never took, and a talent you never took turned into something that actually doesn't suck.

I'm losing Concussive blow, something I've had for YEARS, only to have it replaced with another stun that does no damage.
They've said several times not to assume an ability's gone forever because you don't see it there. And even if it is, I'm not sure why as a tank losing the damage is a big loss given how trivial threat is right now.

I see a new cool ability in disrupting shout, but oh !@#$ look it's mutually exclusive with something else I've had for YEARS and that I rely on.
So you take gag order when it's more useful and take DS when it's more useful.

One of the goals they seem to have had with this system, and they've succeded at it fairly well, is that if you don't like change then at level 90 you can pretty much have the same set of active abilities you did at 85, but if you want something new and shiny, you can give up an old skill for it. You're not remotely unique in this, most specs wind up with 0-1 new abilities if they spec with the intent of keeping everything they used to have. It's not about giving you more stuff, it's about giving you more choices.

Here is what I feel about seeing the new talents:

Lackluster. Limiting. Sucky. I lose things I rely on, and am given less.

You're changing the game too much. This talent makeup is going to suck if this stays the way it is. I'm not going to be excited about seeing the new expansion, it only defines when things become so stupidly frustrating and different from a game I really used to like a lot that I don't want to play anymore.

I'm really, really tired of my abilities being limited, balanced, and fishhooked into where the developers want them because they feel everything should be balanced around PVP. This is a PVE game. 90% of the content is PVE. Make a fun set of things we can do for PVE and make a whole other tree (like this stupid limited rock/paper/scissors thing you want to give us) the PVP tree.

You know, like Rift. But better.

Leave PVE the hell alone. Put the design board down and back away. The developers seem to have George Lucas syndrome - they keep SCREWING with stuff that people liked until it's not what people liked anymore.

Han shot first. Warbringer was fine before it was nerfed for PVP.
Yes, that's right, the talent overhaul is to balance things for PvP, just like every other change that's ever been made to the game you don't like. Even the ones that the devs outright said were for PvE or both PvE and PvP, clearly they're just lying to you.
85 Human Paladin
7590
IMO Blizz is headed down the right track, but falls well short of where they could be.

To be at the "best possible" spot, Blizz needs to maintain the current position of "talent points should matter and be big choices that affect game-play" but they need to also have a seperate tree for each spec.

Quite simply, the current state of the MoP talent tree seems to work "well" for DPS classes but a monkey could pick the talents desired by all of the tanking & healing specs with very little deviation.

Blizz can do better, and we deserve better.

Note:A really important side benefit of spec based talent trees is that certain specs will inevitably benefit more than others from certain talents. Unfortunately, as it stands, "fixing" those talents will affect more than just the one spec that gets the most out of it.
Edited by Divinara on 11/23/2011 12:04 PM PST
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