VP Changes to 4.3 PTR

100 Human Priest
15785
I am not happy about this. What's the incentive to do 25-man raid? You reduced the VP awarded to 25-man, and then in the other thread Zarhym mentioned this:

"That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points."

First you reduced the VP awarded for 25-man, then you increased the Tier-13 drop rate for 10-man. I absolutely have no issue for the tweak for 10-man drop rate. Bear in mind that 25-man also has to deal with the RNG of Tier drop. Our Paladin/Priest/Warlock tier has the worst drop rate. 25-man itself is already difficult to organize, just look at how many 25-man guilds now even existed? We have raided 10-man and 25-man within the guild, it's far easier to do 10-man, at least for us. We continue to do 25-man because we feel the incentive given to 25-man was still reasonable. Please do not tell me to just resort to raiding 10-man. These changes only give very very little benefit to do 25-man raid besides the 3 Tier tokens drop. We have been raiding since BC, and always found reason to continue for 25-man raid. Blizzard, you might as well just eliminate 25-man raid all together when 5.0 comes. With no solid incentive for 25-man raiding, it's hard for us to find reason to play WoW in 5.0.
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85 Dwarf Shaman
1780
You guys crack me up.. Only on the forums.... Blizz is going out of their way to make things like gear and rewards easier to get, and you all still complain?

Some people will just never be happy
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11/17/2011 11:52 AMPosted by Steehl


I think you may be vastly overestimating how well the Raid Finder is going to work when you're making these plans. Right now it mostly seems to be allowing people to wipe on Morchok once or twice before the calls of "U ALL BADS" and the ragequits begin.


I just cleared Siege with the LFR tool on the PTR and had 0 wipes...


But you can't tell me the sample of players you get on the PTR are even remotely similar to those on the live servers. Totally different types of players.
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100 Pandaren Priest
17445
I am not happy about this. What's the incentive to do 25-man raid? You reduced the VP awarded to 25-man, and then in the other thread Zarhym mentioned this:

"That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points."

First you reduced the VP awarded for 25-man, then you increased the Tier-13 drop rate for 10-man. I absolutely have no issue for the tweak for 10-man drop rate.


Except they didn't tweak the 10m drop rates "for the better" they made it worse with bosses dropping 1 tier item and 1 other item (instead of 1 tier and 2 other items) while 25m you get 2 pieces of tier and 3 drops.
Edited by Trinko on 11/17/2011 2:03 PM PST
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100 Undead Warlock
9280
Our intent is to start acting even more on our Mists of Pandaria philosophies of encouraging players to approach the content they want to, how they want to, and be able to work toward meaningful player progression.


The constant decrease in 'Reward' Points, Valor/Justice etc. goes completely against this statement.

Kill the caps. Leave the Point system alone. Have happy people. Win.
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100 Human Warlock
16110
So how about the fact that I cleared all of normal dragonsoul on ptr, no heroics yet but...2 tier pieces per boss on 25 man? That seems rather ridiculous, and you upped 10 man drop rates? Like...nice way of rewarding 25 man I guess, kinda like our main raiders will never all get firehawks but a 10 man guild gets 1 off of h just like 25 man do, even though 10m is a joke compared to 25 in terms of difficulty. Next week we'll have 10 H rag kills, which means we'll have 10 mounts..If we were a 10 man guild (with a set roster of maybe 12-14 players, since you don't really need many more). We'd be pretty much done farming those mounts. Yet in 25s, with a 30 people raid roster (thats being genorous, most guilds have more than that in their roster). We're not even halfway there.

PS: With all those kills and all the possible drops he could've given us. We got 1 H sulfuras. 1 Lightning capacitor. (we have 12 casters that need that) and atlaest 7-8 Melee that need sulfuras...How about you guys let 25 mans pick what they want to no longer drop, like the useless crowns of flame we keep getting, or the 12, yes 12. H bows.
Edited by Gaist on 11/17/2011 2:03 PM PST
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85 Orc Warrior
0
@ Gaist, I will quote this guy above me.

Except they didn't tweak the 10m drop rates "for the better" they made it worse with bosses dropping 1 tier item and 1 other item (instead of 1 tier and 2 other items) while 25m stays the same.
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100 Human Warlock
16110
Cept it doesn't, 25 man drops 2 tier pieces for 25 people, it takes longer to get them than for 10m.
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100 Pandaren Priest
17445
11/17/2011 02:07 PMPosted by Gaist
Cept it doesn't, 25 man drops 2 tier pieces for 25 people, it takes longer to get them than for 10m.


10m does get a better player to item ratio in terms of tier, but with the other items 25m has a better ratio. Honestly this shouldn't be a 25m vs 10m who gets better rates cause they said they were gonna improve it but instead they lowered the amount of drops in both and now they are lowering VP as well.
Edited by Trinko on 11/17/2011 2:12 PM PST
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90 Tauren Shaman
11215
Um, I guess the question is, was there a change to the valor cap? Because the cap is what people go to. I don't really care if it means I have to run three heroics a week instead of one to cap my valor, but it's kinda silly to think that reducing valor gain from bosses would reduce people's valor if there's no change to the cap.

This change only forced more heroic runs, from what I see. Which is probably intentional, as the new 5 mans will need geared people to run them.
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90 Troll Hunter
16610
Time to start raiding 10 mans, its just a waste of time to put the extra time it takes to organize and get through 25 mans when 10 mans take less than half the effort in all parts. 25 mans need to be more rewarding, this is just stupid.
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90 Orc Warlock
7575
So how about the fact that I cleared all of normal dragonsoul on ptr, no heroics yet but...2 tier pieces per boss on 25 man? That seems rather ridiculous, and you upped 10 man drop rates? Like...nice way of rewarding 25 man I guess, kinda like our main raiders will never all get firehawks but a 10 man guild gets 1 off of h just like 25 man do, even though 10m is a joke compared to 25 in terms of difficulty. Next week we'll have 10 H rag kills, which means we'll have 10 mounts..If we were a 10 man guild (with a set roster of maybe 12-14 players, since you don't really need many more). We'd be pretty much done farming those mounts. Yet in 25s, with a 30 people raid roster (thats being genorous, most guilds have more than that in their roster). We're not even halfway there.

PS: With all those kills and all the possible drops he could've given us. We got 1 H sulfuras. 1 Lightning capacitor. (we have 12 casters that need that) and atlaest 7-8 Melee that need sulfuras...How about you guys let 25 mans pick what they want to no longer drop, like the useless crowns of flame we keep getting, or the 12, yes 12. H bows.


firstly, quoted for truth.

11/17/2011 02:07 PMPosted by Gaist
Cept it doesn't, 25 man drops 2 tier pieces for 25 people, it takes longer to get them than for 10m.


This is the first I'm hearing about t13 only dropping 2 tier a boss, instead of the current 3 for 25 man. If that's true, I may rage myself right out of this game all together.
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100 Night Elf Druid
19000
11/17/2011 02:07 PMPosted by Gaist
Cept it doesn't, 25 man drops 2 tier pieces for 25 people, it takes longer to get them than for 10m.


Except You know in 25 man you don't risk having to DE stuff more so than 10 man and 10 man still drops less - 1 tier 1 piece. 25 man is also more reliable in terms of getting what you want.
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100 Human Warlock
16110
@ Nightsbane.

Yesterday we full cleared firelands, we disenchanted all of shannox gear but the ring, all of beths gear, all of rhyos gear, all of alys gear but the cloak, all of balerocs gear, all of domos gear but 1 neck. And Half of the rag drops went to offspec. And we still need 8 sulfuras and 12 trinkets before patch.


Also, i'll be raiding PTR tonight full clearing dragonsoul. I'll post pictures of the boss drops in this thread later. 2 pieces of tier per boss is correct.
Edited by Gaist on 11/17/2011 2:23 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
10520
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding why this is going in. I understand that you prefer people run raids to get better gear, rather than heroic dungeons, but why reduce the valor that drops from bosses? I would understand the point of reducing valor rewards from dungeons, but I'm not seeing how this fixes anything. I, for one, am plagued by bad RNG for drops (especially on my pally), so this is just going to make it harder to get those non-tier pieces from vendors (since tier gear is also being made more RNG).
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Logic at its best.People who have a hard time playing get less powerful gear,which keeps the game hard for them,and players who love a challenge get the gear that makes their encounters less challenging,and voila the starving snake continues to swallow its own tail.
Edited by Ordakii on 11/17/2011 2:43 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12570
we think there will be less need for Valor overall. We want to try to match the lower desire for VP with a slightly slower acquisition rate.


What about the fact that once again there is a lack of Spirit cloth for priests in the raid? Current loot tables show only 1 piece of Spirit Cloth dropping in all of Dragon Soul (compared to 4 pieces of Spirit Plate and 3 pieces of both Spirit Mail and Leather). This leaves many of our slots to be filled in with VP gear which already puts us behind the gearing curve of the other healing classes... now you tell us it will take even longer to acquire the necessary points?

We lived through this with Firelands... I still do not fully understand why we have to deal with it yet again.
First of all, you are posting on an alt, so I am assuming you are bored and simply trolling.

If you are serious and just have no understanding on what a legitimate character to post on, it really isn't slowing down VP acquisition. You can still max out these points by only doing heroics. If you do down all the bosses in DS (8 I believe) and probably the new BH boss, you only have to do one heroic to cap your valor points. I believe that ALL heroics now award 150 valor points. You don't even have to do one of the 3 new ones. Faceroll a 4.0 or 4.1 heroic. I get the feeling that some people are just complaining to complain. This is exacerbated by the fact that you are posting on an alt, and are more than likely trolling.

Ghostcrawler posted awhile back that when taking game changes into account, they look at players who have actually did the content that they are looking to change. Therefore, a level 21 talking about Valor Points is not going to be taken very seriously.
Edited by Lometos on 11/17/2011 2:30 PM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
11585
I think Blizzard is trying to kill 25 man raiding slowly so that they have an excuse to gut it completely in MoP. I can see it now, "Players just don't like those big raids, our data (that only we can see) shows that very few players enjoy 25 man raiding, so we're deciding to put more of our development team's focus on 10 man raiding!!!"
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