VP Changes to 4.3 PTR

13 Human Warlock
170
11/17/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Bashiok
We want to try to match the lower desire for VP with a slightly slower acquisition rate.



This logic is completely flawed. Anyone who wants to progress in PvE content, casual to hardcore, wants any upgrade available (tier or not).

At least just come out and be honest....you want ppl to keep queueing for the 3 new 5mans & LFD to earn VP for more then a few weeks. Stretching content.


11/17/2011 09:23 AMPosted by Bashiok
we didn’t think extra Valor was a strong incentive for those players since they tend to run out of uses for Valor pretty quickly, which will be even more true in 4.3.


The incentive didnt have a purpose but the VP cap is still there so lowering VP acquisition doesnt change that at all......

Grinding weekly VP to cap (like most pve'r do) will just be a little longer.
Edited by Divinedots on 11/17/2011 9:32 AM PST
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100 Tauren Shaman
17355
i would say make a loot bag that has a chance at a mount and have different ones for VP and conquest for when we run out of things to buy, they could be from the cata 5 mans with the same % of drop rate as the boss that drops them. I would say 750vp would be reasonable for them. This would help in some way to keep content alive for longer
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9675
So people that want to cap VP for the first few weeks are now forced to run dungeons again?

Did you guys not learn from this with this current tier that this is a terrible terrible terrible idea?
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100 Tauren Priest
14540
Best in slot holy priest normal mode set requires 6 items that cost VP for a grand total of 8150 VP required (i.e. waist, feet, hands, finger, back, ranged). Combined with requiring tailoring bracers it doesn't seem to me that there is an increased focus on boss loot for holy priests at least.

Basically all this means is more heroic farming for me.
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
2620
It seems to be one announcement contradicts the spirit of the other.

On the one hand (valor), you're saying - no guys you have to actually do the highest content in order to get the highest rewards. On the other hand (conquest), you're saying - no guys you don't have to do the highest content - just spam random battlegrounds and brute force your way to the highest gear.

I'd like to ask that you clarify the reason for these two contradictory messages - both announced simultaneously no less. =/



I feel that in regard for the change with Valor points, their goal would be accomplished better if they just reduced the weekly VP cap, instead of reducing the points you get in Raids. This forces raiders to do LFG 5-mans, where a lot of raiders do NOT want to be spending time once they outgear it.

I will say, though, that making the point aquisition rate equal for 10 and 25 man should have happened ages ago when Blizzard acknowledged that it's more of a regional flavor of opinion when it comes to the percieved difficulty differences between the two raid sizes.
Edited by Picklepork on 11/17/2011 9:39 AM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
14205
Yeah! 10 mans don't get totally screwed by only getting one item off bosses in this new tier at all with this change!

Oh... wait a minute!!!
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85 Worgen Hunter
7400
Oh cool, 10 mans will be gearing up even slower compared to 25 mans now. Like 2-3 times slower wasn't enough already.
Edited by Azgar on 11/17/2011 9:40 AM PST
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100 Tauren Priest
14540
The holy priest issue probably wouldn't be so bad if you'd actually properly itemised the instance rather than shrinking the loot table of bosses whilst simultaneously stating that you were increasing the reliance on boss loot.

Come heroic raiding a lot of the spirit gear probably won't even be able to be upgraded AGAIN (seems that way on the PTR so far).

Why should it be necessary for certain specs (I'm sure others have the same issue) to basically farm the entire set of gear off the vendor.
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100 Orc Warrior
12730
It seems to be one announcement contradicts the spirit of the other.

On the one hand (valor), you're saying - no guys you have to actually do the highest content in order to get the highest rewards. On the other hand (conquest), you're saying - no guys you don't have to do the highest content - just spam random battlegrounds and brute force your way to the highest gear.

I'd like to ask that you clarify the reason for these two contradictory messages - both announced simultaneously no less. =/



Very good question. Quoting for attention and discussion. :)
Edited by Inushi on 11/17/2011 9:39 AM PST
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85 Night Elf Druid
3275
One of the things valor helped with slightly was acquiring gear of an ilevel appropriate to get your foot in the door for raiding. And I don't mean at the beginning of a patch, but for those of us who come into the game a bit late.

I came back late october for your 1-year sub, and I can tell you one of the most frustrating things about returning mid-patch has been that nearly all the guilds are working on HM content, most of them seeming be 6/7 HM 10m. I managed to get onto a bench in one of those guilds and pretty much never get taken because I'm poorly geared, but also have no way outside pugging and VP to get 371 gear. It's a pretty disheartening problem, really. Raising the time required to get VP and catch up just makes it even more frustrating for all those customers you're trying to bring back.
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90 Human Death Knight
15520

My thoughts exactly. I feel that in regard for the change with Valor points, their goal would be accomplished better if they just reduced the weekly VP cap, instead of reducing the points you get in Raids. This forces raiders to do LFG 5-mans, where a lot of raiders do NOT want to be spending time once they outgear it.

I will say, though, that making the point aquisition rate equal for 10 and 25 man should have happened ages ago when Blizzard acknowledged that it's more of a regional flavor of opinion when it comes to the percieved difficulty differences between the two raid sizes.


Yep, you slow valor acquisition by lowering the weekly cap, not the amount awarded for clearing relevant content.

This just forces people to re-clear outdated content or do 5 mans that don't serve any purpose for them other than to cap on points to get valor gear before it's made obsolete by heroic items.

Ah well, I'll be forced to keep clearing firelands anyway for the couple of staffs we still need. I guess this is just an extra "incentive".
Edited by Cleve on 11/17/2011 9:40 AM PST
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90 Human Rogue
11775
More fighting over tier tokens? :P

If we can go back to the old loot system, 12 bosses and enough items for everyone - this might be okay. You want us to be unique, and gave us reforging as a means to accomplish that. Suddenly healers are given no boss drops with spirit, allowing for some crazy unique reforging options. Just today I saw one priest reforging to spirit, and the other reforging to spirit! Please, if we rely on boss kills, make all of us want boss kills. I really like the idea of relying on boss kills. People get lazy, don't want to finish the last one, or go through the motions on a kill because it doesn't provide a fun mechanic for them. I love steering on Rhyolith, despite him dropping Volcanospike and some plate thing every week that we DE. I don't, however, enjoy Beth anymore. :( I can't force spinners down and I don't like having to ask for them every phase on vent. I'm not contributing on the floor. I want my VPs to be fun :]

Vanquishers token is cluttered and Protectors gets vendored. If we must now fight over four of the five tokens instead of two, please make them drop more often and from different sources. I personally thought throwing bonus tokens on Al'Akir was a great idea. Unfortunately, Al'Akir has turned out to be the Malygos of Cataclysm. I still can't find enough people to go kill him!

Give the first boss of the raid a LOT of loot. I'm talking Naxxramas loot bag of unending possibilities. Shannox got really old, always dropping stuff nobody needed.
Edited by Tharyl on 11/17/2011 9:58 AM PST
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85 Tauren Paladin
zZq
0
The people complaining about VP amuse me, because as some have mentioned, there was a time when this Valor system never existed. In Vanilla you ran your raids once a week and prayed to the RNG Gods, and if you didn't get what you wanted, oh well. Now a system is in place to be sure you at least get something for your efforts if your gear doesn't drop. When this was first done, people already started calling it welfare gear, and criticized Blizzard for catering to casuals. Over the years however, the majority of players started depending on Valor gear, so much that now you are complaining that you have to do anything but the bare minimum of raids to acquire Valor gear?
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21 Human Rogue
0
11/17/2011 09:23 AMPosted by Bashiok
Our goal remains to make 25s slightly more rewarding to help offset the logistical challenges inherit in 25-player raiding, but we didn’t think extra Valor was a strong incentive for those players since they tend to run out of uses for Valor pretty quickly, which will be even more true in 4.3.


25s should be vastly more rewarding, not slightly.

When there's only a slight advantage, like what there is now, then 25 man guilds will keep dissappearing, like what's happened and has been happening since 10s and 25s started sharing lockouts at the end of Wrath. Now you're taking away an advantage 25s had, albeit a small one.

Why is Blizzard intent on driving away 25 man guilds? Trying to maintain a 25 man guild is one of the most stressful things most people have experienced in this, and quite possibly any other game. The rewards for doing so should be far greater than what they currently are.
Edited by Imthatguy on 11/17/2011 9:45 AM PST
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100 Night Elf Druid
15625
I think you are relying far too much on the raid finder to make up the difference, tbh.

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100 Tauren Shaman
17355
wait, 10mans only get 1 item per boss now? what about bosses that drop tier is it only a chance at dropping now?
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