Feral PVP Guide, 4.3!

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90 Worgen Druid
7185
Hello, I was hoping I would recieve some useful tips on how to duel a rogue and mage.
The post about a feral against a rogue does not help with how to counter a rogue's CDs like Shadowdance or Evasion. The only tip I get from the post is to bleed and go bear but a great rogue can easily pierce my defenses when I apply that tactic. As a feral I only have 2 offensive and 3 defensive CDs while a rogue has many so a tip on how to counter them efficiently would be appreciated.

A mage duel is difficult for a feral druid because their abilities can nullify the feral's offensive and defensive CDs. The guide states I should keep lifebloom stacked and active but a mage can simply not use their counter spell and just damage me. I need useful tips on how to counter them efficiently because mages and rogues are a feral's most deadly opponent.
92 Tauren Druid
6520
Hello, I was hoping I would recieve some useful tips on how to duel a rogue and mage.

The post about a feral against a rogue does not help with how to counter a rogue's CDs like Shadowdance or Evasion. The only tip I get from the post is to bleed and go bear but a great rogue can easily pierce my defenses when I apply that tactic. As a feral I only have 2 offensive and 3 defensive CDs while a rogue has many so a tip on how to counter them efficiently would be appreciated.

A mage duel is difficult for a feral druid because their abilities can nullify the feral's offensive and defensive CDs. The guide states I should keep lifebloom stacked and active but a mage can simply not use their counter spell and just damage me. I need useful tips on how to counter them efficiently because mages and rogues are a feral's most deadly opponent.


You're in luck, I've been dueling rogues and mages lately.

ROGUES
General Rogue Rules:
  • If he Shadow Dance, you Barkskin
  • If he blinds, you trinket
  • I start out in bear, just because it's a pain to look for each other in stealth.

  • Phase 1 - in bear form.
  • You've got a few goals while you're in bear form.
    1) Get Faerie Fire on them as soon as possible.
    2) Get lacerate on them.
    3) Use Demo Roar to decrease their damage.
    3) Mangle or Maul them to put a slow on them.

    The sooner you can do these, the better. If he opens with a Garrote(silence) you won't be able to FF until that falls off.

  • Phase 2 - get distance.
  • Once you've accomplished the above, you want to get some distance between you and the rogue. Your goal is to get a re-stealth and open on the rogue.

    The easy answer is to use nature's grasp, because he should still have his shadow-step available as a gap closer. If you switch to a squishy form while too close to him, he can step toward you and possibly stun you in a vulnerable position. Alternatively, you can powershift and just run away from him... and when you get far enough, switch to a faster form than bear.

    Once you get distance, triple stack your lifebloom, then look to drop combat and stealth. If you get stealth, charge and pounce him!

    What you need to look out for:
    If he cloaks the faerie fire, he's going to vanish right after. You need shift back into bear form immediately. If your life is a little low - say you've lost about 30% or more, you really want to heal. In that case, use Stampeding Roar in bear form to get distance fast. Once you are running quickly and safely at a distance, start hotting yourself. The rogue shouldn't be able to stay in stealth for long, because you left him bleeding. The bleed ticks should remove his stealth after vanish fades.

    If your health is still high and/or you didn't leave a bleed on him, you can let him re-open on you. You don't have many choices in that. In which case, you start the steps from the beginning.

    Whatever the case, if he cloaks your faerie fire, you need to reapply it as soon as possible.

  • Phase 3 - Drop Damage into him part one
  • You've got distance, he can't catch you, he can't stealth. Your turn to put some fire into him You stealth. You pounce on him and get full bleeds going. If you get to this point with reasonable health, you're winning. You can just go toe to toe with him UNTIL you get low OR he uses evasion.

  • Phase 4 - Getting your 2nd Wind
  • If either of those occur, you once again go bear. If you can anticipate this happening, go bear a little early. And use Frenzied Regen when you get low. Faerie fire on cooldown and otherwise just try to keep your rage high so you can get lots of health back.

  • Phase 5 - Kill him
  • Once your health is in a good position, you want to re-open on him and finish the job.
    You have quite a few options:
    1) You can once again Nature's Grasp him, kite away, and restealth.
    2) You can warstomp->cyclone. LBx3, restealth, and re-open.
    3) You can attempt to bash him, and go immediately into cat.

    Use Survival Instincts + Berserk and kill him.

  • Final Caveate
  • I did duel a rogue twice, who was significantly better than the average rogue I've faced. He won both duels... however, I did hit the windows key mid duel once... and was missing major cooldowns the second time. The strategy I outlined above was not going to work on him. He immediately began bleed kiting me, while I was in bear form... making it difficult to apply a bleed, a slow, or nature's grasp root him.
    When you use bear-charge on better rogues, they pretty consistently gouge you... and get distance before you can hit them. So use skull-bash!

    Good Luck!
    Edited by Clay on 6/27/2012 12:04 PM PDT
    92 Tauren Druid
    6520
    Frost Mages (without Line of Sight)
    I win against frost mages pretty frequently... mostly because most frost mages under-estimate druids so I catch them by surprise. After a handful of duels, they'll learn all your tricks and you'll once again be in trouble!

    General Tips:
    -Trinket the first deep freeze

    -Barkskin the second deep freeze

    -If you're caught in a nova CAST SPELLS. Lifebloom yourself. Clone or Root him. Cyclone his pet.

    -Alternatively shift to bear when you are stuck in a nova - to soak the damage he pumps into you.

    -If he iceblocks with you on top of him. Cyclone his pet and go cat. If he sits in block long -enough, you will get to stealth.

    -Get in the habit of standing so that you're kinda facing the same direction as him, but ahead of him, while waiting for him to come out of cyclones/blocks. This will let you get that crucial mangle before he can get away.

    -If you cyclone him, switch your cyclone to his pet - to prevent pet novas when he comes out.

    -Skull bash to close the gap. Sometimes they mistakenly believe you've charged and will blink. In which case you can bear charge him and get a few hits in. You don't really need skull bash to interrupt a frost mage's casts. They don't cast unless they know you're helpless. If you skull bash in bear form, you can follow with a regular bash and force a blink. Which then gets bear charged.

    -You can make this duel last a few minutes with aggressive lifebloom/cyclone use... this does not put you any closer to winning, however.

    -I've won a few duels in the final hour by cat charging and dropping a ravage + 5cp bite back to back. If the mage is low and kiting you... keep an eye out for that opportunity.

    -If the mage has their pet on passive, take advantage of that by getting a cyclone->3xLB->stealth off on the mage.

    You have to win the fight early. The longer the fight goes on, the more it falls into the mages favor. It will eventually deteriorate to the point where a mage at 1% health can drop you from full health without you being able to touch them.

    - Open with pounce, mangle, TF, berserk, rake, (rip or ferocious bite)
    *since I duel the same mages over and over, I actually have a good feel for whether or not they'll iceblock my opening bleeds. Against an unknown mage, you will want to use ferocious bite... but if you're familiar with them and know they won't block your first rip... use rip, because it's better!

    - You want to cyclone the pet BEFORE they use the pet nova. If the mage is slow, you will be able to simply spend your PS proc immediately on the pet and beat his nova. If he's on the ball, you won't be able to beat the nova. I will sometimes warstomp before I apply my finisher to prevent the pet nova long enough to cyclone the pet. Other races, I don't know what you should do.
    He wants to use the pet nova ASAP, because it gives him 2 FoF procs either for damage or to deep freeze you. If you can cyclone that pet, you will get a few seconds on him to put out more pressure.

    If you can get a 2nd finisher (this time bite) on the mage before that nova hits, you have a great chance at winning this fight.

    - He will nova you.
    You have 2 options:
    - 1 instant cyclone the mage
    - Sprint

    I'm not sure which option is best. Sometimes, if you clone the mage, it'll land just as they deep freeze you. Which is great - then you don't need to spend a trinket on this deep freeze! But you'll still be in a nova when he comes out of the clone... which kinda sucks.

    Whatever the case, you need to do one of those ASAP. You can't let him get distance on you.
    If sprint, he will probably deep freeze you right after you sprint. If he does, trinket ASAP. And get on him.

    If you've put good damage into him - he is looking to evocate. You can't let him evocate... well you can trade evocate for a free stealth. It's better to stop the evocate against someone who is skilled. However, the free stealth could get you a win against an lesser opponent.
    He will want to do a ring of frost to cover his evocate. When he does this, you cyclone him. While he's cycloned you can cross his ring. If you manage to do that, you have probably won. You should probably use Survival Instincts when you have a free global sometime around here. Sometime in the above section he will nova you again. Use Stampeding Roar to get on him again.

    Final Notes:
    A frost mage who is unaccustomed to having his pet cycloned... or unaccustomed to having the feral cast aggressively while nova'd... or using skull bash to close gaps... will be caught off guard and you have a really solid chance of winning. However, once they've learned all of these tricks, you are in trouble!
    92 Tauren Druid
    6520
    Fire Mages
    Much like the frost mage, the longer this fight goes on, the more it falls into the mage's favor. However, I've found that an aggressive opening where you trinket/sprint very quickly when needed can make this a win almost every time.

    Open Pounce -> bleeds w/ berserk.
    You want to use rip on fire mages, because they hate to block until after cauterize has proc'd. So it's pretty safe to rip a fire mage.

    If they nova, you sprint.
    If they DB, you trinket.
    Use skull-bash to interrupt their scorch.
    Make FB be your 2nd finisher, which should come quickly - since you're berserking.
    If they impact stun you, you close that gap with skull-bash.

    Fire mages do a ton of damage ... as far as I can tell randomly - when they use combustion. You probably just want to use Survival Instincts early in the fight, because the fight shouldn't last more than about 30 seconds anyhow... and if it does last longer, you're going to lose it.

    Put some cyclones into the mage to force trinket use. Once you've done that you can do clone->3xlb->stealth safely.

    I've found the key to success against a fire mage is:
    get two finishers on him early in the fight.
    sprint ASAP on the nova
    trinket ASAP on the DB.

    If you can do the above, you are waaaayyy ahead. If you're slow at all at responding to his cc, he'll be able to make a gap. Once he has a gap he's incredibly hard to catch.
    Edited by Clay on 7/25/2012 9:50 AM PDT
    100 Night Elf Druid
    15895
    05/17/2012 02:04 AMPosted by Clay
    I start out in bear, just because it's a pain to look for each other in stealth.

    Silly q - I've never tried this... Who does he usually sap, you or the healer? (Or the other DPS, in 3s...)

    Heh - I just realized that I think you're talking 1v1; would you do the same in arenas?
    Edited by Taswind on 5/17/2012 10:29 AM PDT
    92 Tauren Druid
    6520
    05/17/2012 05:51 AMPosted by Taswind
    I start out in bear, just because it's a pain to look for each other in stealth.

    Silly q - I've never tried this... Who does he usually sap, you or the healer? (Or the other DPS, in 3s...)

    Heh - I just realized that I think you're talking 1v1; would you do the same in arenas?


    Yeah, as you guessed, I was talking about duels. In arenas, I absolutely would NOT give up my opener and go bear.

    During certain season, playing double stealth comps, we found it best to wait for the see-hidden gems against some rogue teams. In those cases, I would normally sacrifice my stealth to get a FFF on the rogue - we felt depriving the rogue of an opener was worth more than pounce.

    In present season, I really like opening on rogues and I hate being opened on by rogues. This means that I'll often wait for the rogue to come out before I begin the fight. Even if our primary kill target isn't the rogue - starting on him when he opens often forces enough of his defensive cooldowns that he becomes vulnerable as a swap target for the rest of the match.
    90 Worgen Druid
    7185
    I was hoping for your reply Clay because they are well written and you give great advice. Thanks alot!
    90 Troll Druid
    6900
    Great guide thanks.
    90 Tauren Druid
    7100
    Gear question:
    I've got LFR Molten Blood Footpads with 2 +40 agility gems in them. To finish off my PVP set all I need is the boots, I'm currently at 4.2k res and usually only do random BG's with occasional 2s where we're currently just over 1k rating.

    The PVP boots only have 1 yellow gem which is 40 agility max, is it worth losing the extra agility to pick up an extra 100~ resilience?
    100 Night Elf Druid
    15895
    05/27/2012 07:15 AMPosted by Killyourself
    The PVP boots only have 1 yellow gem which is 40 agility max, is it worth losing the extra agility to pick up an extra 100~ resilience?

    If you are not finding yourself extra smushy, then no. If you find that you're being globaled by anything other than legendary-wielding cheating <*censured*>s, then yes.

    But overall, it probably doesn't much matter in random BGs and the occasional 2s for points instead of rating.
    Although agility is pretty amazing, I'd stack the hell out of resil aside from a good pve trinket or weapon. Personally I use vial and agi/resil gems, the longer you can stay in cat and keep damage rolling, the better.

    In wotlk we used to stack stam and resil, and that frost emblem stam trinket with the shield was our best trinket. Although we're tuned more towards agi at the moment, resilience will always be number 1 for us.
    90 Worgen Druid
    7530
    Question, does Spire of Globules beat out Kiril (Normal/LFG) since its not covered in the guide?

    :< Everyone seems to forget poor Spire
    Personal preference likely. I'd rather have the static mastery myself, than an unreliable proc that you can get cc'ed through. But then I'd rather just have a pvp weapon.

    However, if I had your heroic Spire I'd definitely use it over t1 cata anyday. You give now.
    90 Tauren Druid
    0
    #showtooltip
    /cast [nostance] Faerie Fire
    /cast [stance:4] Faerie Fire
    /cast [stance:1] Faerie Fire (Feral)
    /cast [stance:3] Faerie Fire (Feral)

    Won't cast fairy fire in my kitty state.. what gives! :l
    100 Night Elf Druid
    15895
    #showtooltip
    /cast [stance:1] Faerie Fire (Feral)(Feral);
    /cast [stance:3] Faerie Fire (Feral)(Feral);
    /cast [nostance] Faerie Fire

    (Copied directly from the macro I use all the time)

    The most obvious difference I see is the semicolon after each. LMK if adding that works and I'll fix the macro on the guide. (Order is irrelevant, and stance:4 is fine, it's just saying to use normal FF in travel form.)
    Edited by Taswind on 7/12/2012 10:28 PM PDT
    90 Worgen Druid
    7185
    Hey again
    I was wondering if any of you had experience with a ret pally/feral comp in 2v2 because me and my partner have a tough time against mage/healer comps and ret/undk, Any tips on how to beat them will be greatly appreciated.
    90 Night Elf Druid
    0
    07/12/2012 10:27 PMPosted by Taswind
    The most obvious difference I see is the semicolon after each. LMK if adding that works and I'll fix the macro on the guide. (Order is irrelevant, and stance:4 is fine, it's just saying to use normal FF in travel form.)


    Actually it is more likely the extra (Feral) in there - which could also just be () - generally when using one of our form specific spells in a macro you need to add an extra () after it, otherwise it assumes the (Feral) is a parameter to the cast rather than the name of the spell you are trying to cast

    You can clean it up to look like:
    #showtooltip
    /cast [stance:1/3] Faerie Fire (Feral)(); Faerie Fire
    85 Tauren Druid
    5175
    Just posting to say, I appreciated this thread. I'm a long-time feral pvp'er who recently came back after a long break. This thread was helpful in getting back into the swing of things. I'm not quite there yet, but I'm on my way.

    Again, thank you :)
    85 Human Paladin
    5640
    Just started playing on my feral, Ive got 2.1k experience pushing 2,2 this season, steamrolled 2s up to 1869 with a priest then he quit wow /sigh good friend too, so Ive started playing with a hpally, if its possible grab a priest or rsham FAR better comp, but basically priest/mage, priest/rogue are very hard matchups, vs Mage/priest you WILL NOT WIN THE MANA WAR, you need to go very offensive on the mage, with your pally spam cleansing, do not give out freedom otherwise mage will spellsteal and pressure will be lost, normally what I do is, Pounce mage, blink will come before or after mangle, feral charge it, mangle, tigersufry+Trinket+Beserk, rake, ravage, rip, clone priest, shred as much as possible, get 5 cp before priest is out of clone, ferocious bite the mage, if you cant savage roar and clone the mage, wait the 6 secs, bash the pally, Get back on mage, Pally trys to get rebukes, dont worry too mcuh about polys if match goes too long youve lost, once clone dr is off reclone and hoj out of it most likely alot of cds have been popped and keep pressure up your pally needs to SPAM CLEANSE and not use freedom, vital, if you can get mage in fulll maim without blink that is perfect, vs rogue priest the game is very winnable, focus rogue while ccing cloning both on dr and stunning both, youll eeventually get a kill, if your hpally gets soloed by a rogue, hes bad no offense, tell him not to turn his back to rogue and to strafe heal stops loads of damage, allows him to parry and block and rogue cant backkstab, vs the mage priest make sure if priest runs into fear he dosent chase for rebukes stays back and cleanses you out, if you DO get double feared, dont let them reset, either you trinket or your healer trinkets and cleanses, dont double trinkets skullbash priest, root rogue step away so he cant kick and hardcast clone priest are amazing peels for paladin, keep faerie on rogue if your cloning and cover roots with faerie also, vs any shamans, moonfire then clone to break grounding totems if you need any more help feel free to ask more questions...
    /cast [target=focus] Skullbash[cat] or w/e lol I just copy them, but that is AMAZING for twos, I use an alt mod for just reg kick on target and nomod for focus kick... focus kicks win games, along with rebukes... which is one strength playing with a pally
    Edited by Rodniky on 8/11/2012 12:11 AM PDT
    85 Human Paladin
    5640
    Hey eternal, for ret/feral, you want to burst at the start and get a kill fairly early, Vs mage/healer, run in start on healer, healer is kill target repent mage opener, as feral save trinket for fear, open hard, feral charge, pounce, mangle, tigersfury+trinket+beserk, rake, ravage, rip, shred, shred etc keep biting, after repent clone mage, priest will go down very fast which is what most mages play with, pally should, wings+goak+trinket right at start and zealotry asoon as possible during that two set would be best, make sure to cc mage during this so wings cant be stolen, if its an hpally its a very hard game to win, force bubble try to reset by lifeblooming, tranqing, flashing and using seal of insight + Wogs, then try to kill pally out of bubble, vs ret dk... kill dk, ferals EAT DKS, open hard like I said ^ with pally wings at start, repent ret early, hojj out of that, most likely will have forced trinket, full clone=no bubble out, dk will most likely die, Feral should maim dk off dr dk will drop VERY fast, also, make sure you get the repent off before they hand of sac, GG you have more effective cc and damage, if the dks good at kiting it can be a hard match but very winnable
    Edited by Rodniky on 8/11/2012 12:26 AM PDT
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